Installing a GPI SS3 cam but i need opinions on lifters!!!

[1SSkenny]

I have been slowly ordering all my parts for my cam swap for my 2015 Camaro ss m6 (ls3) and im almost ready to get started on it. But I've read different stories on the stock ls3 lifters being able to handle a cam, i wasn't really planning on doing lifters but i need some advice on this. the cam specs are 233/253 .646/.637 and I would like to know if one of you are running this cam or similar cams with the stock ls3 lifters before i buy the ss3
Also, im open to other cam options but really like the GPI ss3
Thanks in advance!!

[2010BlackCamaroSS]

Originally Posted by 1SSkenny

I have been slowly ordering all my parts for my cam swap for my 2015 Camaro ss m6 (ls3) and im almost ready to get started on it. But I've read different stories on the stock ls3 lifters being able to handle a cam, i wasn't really planning on doing lifters but i need some advice on this. the cam specs are 233/253 .646/.637 and I would like to know if one of you are running this cam or similar cams with the stock ls3 lifters before i buy the ss3
Also, im open to other cam options but really like the GPI ss3
Thanks in advance!!

My opinion: don't cheap out on the lifters.

I'm only running an SS1 VVT, but I bought Johnson 2110R lifters to go with it. You are going to get similar opinions from folks smarter than me as this thread continues.

[acammer]

As someone who helps customers build out cam packages every day for a living, I can tell you that the most common failure point I see in LS engines is the lifter. Consider adding a camshaft exposes the factory lifter to additional valve spring pressure, additional lift, a faster opening/closing ramp on the lobe, and more rpm. That's asking a lot from that part, especially if it already has seen plenty of miles. For the money, the Chevy Performance Racing (aka GMPP, Caddy, P/N 88958689) lifters are a huge step up from the factory LS3/LS7 lifters in terms of material and build quality - they are not only better performing but more reliable. We use those in probably 80% of the builds we do here in the shop because they are an excellent lifter for the money.

Whatever you do, don't go backwards on lifter quality with a knock-off "Delphi LS7" wanna be lifter, or some other low cost substitute. You get what you pay for, and find something just as good as OEM for half the money is a fantasy. The only thing those are good for is paperweights.

As far as the cam, I ran that cam in my personal 2011 LS3 Camaro for over 20,000 miles. I loved it - it made great power (501whp with bolt ons, ported rod mod), and was reasonable to drive around. It is a BIG cam, make no mistake. It's true that it's our "Stage 3" option, but compared to our competitors "stage 3" options, it's a big stick. The history is that the SS3 was our original "max effort for internally stock" LS3 applications. Eventually, we massaged that cam into our SS4 NFC, which offers just a little more top end power at the expensive of a little early mid-range.

The SS3 actually has MORE overlap than the SS4 NFC, and will drive just the same - it will have big cam qualities (small bucks and surges) under light load at low rpm (<2000). Good tuning will mitigate a lot of that, but you cannot mask it completely, especially in a stick shift car. If you're looking for more a pure stage 3 option, I have a custom grind that I do for customers that is a bit more centered between our SS2 and SS4 NFC cams. I call it the "Cammer", and it's a 231/247 112+4, on the GPI/GPX lobes the rest of our lineup is on, so the same .646/.637 lift. It's aim is to be a bit better driving than the SS3 and SS4 NFC by taming the overlap a bit. It will have a similar curve with a VERY strong mid-range, and a peak around 6400rpm with a solid curve out to 7000rpm, giving up maybe 10-15hp to the SS4 NFC and 5-10whp to the SS3. Pretty similar big cam sound and performance, but a little less of the big cam manners.

Anyways, I hope that helps. If you decide you want to go the GPI route, I'd be very happy to help get a complete cam package sorted out for you when you're ready. You can reach me via e-mail at andrew@gwatneyperformance.com, or you can look me up on facebook and feel free to message me to get a package together, or just with additional questions.

[Leo72793]

Originally Posted by acammer

As someone who helps customers build out cam packages every day for a living, I can tell you that the most common failure point I see in LS engines is the lifter. Consider adding a camshaft exposes the factory lifter to additional valve spring pressure, additional lift, a faster opening/closing ramp on the lobe, and more rpm. That's asking a lot from that part, especially if it already has seen plenty of miles. For the money, the Chevy Performance Racing (aka GMPP, Caddy, P/N 88958689) lifters are a huge step up from the factory LS3/LS7 lifters in terms of material and build quality - they are not only better performing but more reliable. We use those in probably 80% of the builds we do here in the shop because they are an excellent lifter for the money.

Whatever you do, don't go backwards on lifter quality with a knock-off "Delphi LS7" wanna be lifter, or some other low cost substitute. You get what you pay for, and find something just as good as OEM for half the money is a fantasy. The only thing those are good for is paperweights.

As far as the cam, I ran that cam in my personal 2011 LS3 Camaro for over 20,000 miles. I loved it - it made great power (501whp with bolt ons, ported rod mod), and was reasonable to drive around. It is a BIG cam, make no mistake. It's true that it's our "Stage 3" option, but compared to our competitors "stage 3" options, it's a big stick. The history is that the SS3 was our original "max effort for internally stock" LS3 applications. Eventually, we massaged that cam into our SS4 NFC, which offers just a little more top end power at the expensive of a little early mid-range.

The SS3 actually has MORE overlap than the SS4 NFC, and will drive just the same - it will have big cam qualities (small bucks and surges) under light load at low rpm (<2000). Good tuning will mitigate a lot of that, but you cannot mask it completely, especially in a stick shift car. If you're looking for more a pure stage 3 option, I have a custom grind that I do for customers that is a bit more centered between our SS2 and SS4 NFC cams. I call it the "Cammer", and it's a 231/247 112+4, on the GPI/GPX lobes the rest of our lineup is on, so the same .646/.637 lift. It's aim is to be a bit better driving than the SS3 and SS4 NFC by taming the overlap a bit. It will have a similar curve with a VERY strong mid-range, and a peak around 6400rpm with a solid curve out to 7000rpm, giving up maybe 10-15hp to the SS4 NFC and 5-10whp to the SS3. Pretty similar big cam sound and performance, but a little less of the big cam manners.

Anyways, I hope that helps. If you decide you want to go the GPI route, I'd be very happy to help get a complete cam package sorted out for you when you're ready. You can reach me via e-mail at andrew@gwatneyperformance.com, or you can look me up on facebook and feel free to message me to get a package together, or just with additional questions.

As someone who recently got screwed by Delphi LS7 lifters, i can not stress this enough! Spend the money and get TRUE lifters or start at caddy race lifters or better if you plan to go further. Andrew and my builder were correct when i was building my kit. That extra savings was not worth the near 4000 bill i have now.

[ss camaro-monte]

Yep, start with the Caddy lifters and go up from there. I just got them in my mild vvt build and if you are spinning even higher than 7k I would probably invest in johnson lifters but caddy lifters(GMPP lifters) is where I would start.

[1JEWLDSSRS]

Agree with all the above. Start with the caddy lifters, then if you are going to go wild with a max effort build and spin some RPM's, then Johnson is the way to go. I'm kinda pissed that my builder went with the Delphi's in my build. Not sure why, but when I found out how NOT reliable these lifters are above 7k RPM, and I ran it up there a lot, I had to quit driving my Camaro like it should be driven, hence took away most of my enjoyment. Just afraid they may fail, so I'm easy on it, and right now that I don't have anymore "extra income" being retired, can't afford to replace them. So DON'T cheap out!!

[LS1Formulation]

I'm probably tempting fate, but I slapped my BTR Stage 4 LS3 cam in using the stock lifters and I've been ripping on it for about 5000 miles with zero issues. Starting at 82K miles. Is it the right thing to do? No. Did it work for me? Yup. That said, when I finally decide to buy heads, I'm going to swap out my lifters for quality pieces.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by LS1Formulation

I'm probably tempting fate, but I slapped my BTR Stage 4 LS3 cam in using the stock lifters and I've been ripping on it for about 5000 miles with zero issues. Starting at 82K miles. Is it the right thing to do? No. Did it work for me? Yup. That said, when I finally decide to buy heads, I'm going to swap out my lifters for quality pieces.

I did the same back in the day with my GPI SS3 setup - I installed that at 30k miles and never pulled the heads off the motor. Those OEM LS7 lifters stood up pretty well to 20k with that cam, and honestly didn't look too bad at all when I tore it down. But, it was definitely tempting fate. That combination was typically shifted at 7200rpm, but saw as much as 7600rpm on the scanner a time or two - so they definitely earned their retirement in a box on the shelf. Not what I'd recommend, and I lived in fear of one of those letting me down. I think I was fortunate to take them out of service with all still intact, as I definitely was asking for trouble.

Do as I say, not as I do, right? Or in this case, now it has the Max Package 2.0 on it, and Johnson ST2116LSR's that I rip to 7800rpm and don't give a second thought to. I definitely recommend that!

[1JEWLDSSRS]

Originally Posted by acammer

I did the same back in the day with my GPI SS3 setup - I installed that at 30k miles and never pulled the heads off the motor. Those OEM LS7 lifters stood up pretty well to 20k with that cam, and honestly didn't look too bad at all when I tore it down. But, it was definitely tempting fate. That combination was typically shifted at 7200rpm, but saw as much as 7600rpm on the scanner a time or two - so they definitely earned their retirement in a box on the shelf. Not what I'd recommend, and I lived in fear of one of those letting me down. I think I was fortunate to take them out of service with all still intact, as I definitely was asking for trouble.

Do as I say, not as I do, right? Or in this case, now it has the Max Package 2.0 on it, and Johnson ST2116LSR's that I rip to 7800rpm and don't give a second thought to. I definitely recommend that!

I guess my question for you Andrew is, after 27k or so on these Delphi LS7's that I have ran to over 7200 RPM's previously, now only to 7k, should I be concerned about them? I don't drive her like I used to because of them. Just wondering. Thanks for all your knowledge and advice.

[ss camaro-monte]

Plus the caddy lifters are only like 120-150 more and GM rated them to 8k. Johnsons are better but unless you are really spinning that ls to 7500 plus like Andrew regularly. You don't need more lifter than the caddy imo.I wouldn't even consider Johnsons personally. Invest in ported heads, higher end valvesprings etc.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by 1JEWLDSSRS

I guess my question for you Andrew is, after 27k or so on these Delphi LS7's that I have ran to over 7200 RPM's previously, now only to 7k, should I be concerned about them? I don't drive her like I used to because of them. Just wondering. Thanks for all your knowledge and advice.

I don't like them in your build. You have an intake that wants to see ALL the rpm, but you don't have the valve-train to support it. Ideally, anything with an LOD intake should be shifting north of 8000rpm to see all that manifold has to give. For that you need a really well thought out everything. If you're keeping the RPM to 7,000rpm that's definitely better for the lifter, but I wouldn't want those Delphi LS7 knock off's in anything for longer than I had to have them. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but when you get a raptaptap some day, I also wouldn't be surprised.

[1JEWLDSSRS]

Originally Posted by acammer

I don't like them in your build. You have an intake that wants to see ALL the rpm, but you don't have the valve-train to support it. Ideally, anything with an LOD intake should be shifting north of 8000rpm to see all that manifold has to give. For that you need a really well thought out everything. If you're keeping the RPM to 7,000rpm that's definitely better for the lifter, but I wouldn't want those Delphi LS7 knock off's in anything for longer than I had to have them. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but when you get a raptaptap some day, I also wouldn't be surprised.

Thanks Andrew for the reply. Looks like I need to be setting aside some bucks for a lifter swap. I don't want to have any issues, haven't had any yet. Knock on wood. Thanks.

[1SSkenny]

Alright thanks for the responses! ,I’m going to be upgrading my lifters now , I will be going with the GPI ss3 cam debating on get the ss3 sc cam bc I do plan on getting a 2.9l whipple sc kit for it very soon. Anyone got any thoughts on that ? I really do appreciate all the help guys !

[1JEWLDSSRS]

Originally Posted by 1SSkenny

Alright thanks for the responses! ,I’m going to be upgrading my lifters now , I will be going with the GPI ss3 cam debating on get the ss3 sc cam bc I do plan on getting a 2.9l whipper sc kit for it very soon. Anyone got any thoughts on that ? I really do appreciate all the help guys !

Well, if you are wanting to go SC in the future, I would get with Andrew-(acammer) and see what he suggests. He is the GURU here!! Oh, and it's Whipple, not whipper. lol.