Camaro SS vs 6.4 HEMI

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

The 6.1L Hemi and the GM 6.2L motors are big block V8s, correct?

No, they are small block V8's.

Big Displacement doesnt equal big block.

You had, back in the day, the 396 small block and the 396 big block. Just like today you have the 426 Hemi small block (stroked 6.1L) and the crate engine 426 Hemi big block (direct replacement).

Big Block engines produced massive amounts of torque with lower HP ratings. Todays small blocks do not produce nearly as much torque.

[xs29j8]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

I sure hope you are wrong. Many people said that in the 70s, yet the big V8s made a big comeback.

I really hope that I am wrong too... In the 1990s I had given up on a Mopar V8 ever coming back in passenger cars, then they surprised me with the 5.7L Hemi. I hope that I am wrong again, but the writing on the wall seems pretty clear this time... :(

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

But not big block V8's..big power V8's yes..but not BIG V8's.

Absolutely correct...

Originally Posted by Georgie

the challenger has the biggest cabin as well--you really can take that thing on a roadtrip no worries

And incredibly comfortable seats, with great support for bad backs like mine!

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

No, they are small block V8's.

Big Displacement doesnt equal big block.

You had, back in the day, the 396 small block and the 396 big block. Just like today you have the 426 Hemi small block (stroked 6.1L) and the crate engine 426 Hemi big block (direct replacement).

Big Block engines produced massive amounts of torque with lower HP ratings. Todays small blocks do not produce nearly as much torque.

Again, very true... the 3rd Generation Hemi is loosely based on the Chrysler "LA" Series Small Block engines (273/318/340/360).

[xs29j8]

You Camaro guys will like this... I live on a street about a half mile long, and since the Challenger debuted, four of them have come to live here ( 2 SRTs, 1 R/T, 1 SE). In that time, no late model Camaros or Mustangs have called the street home... only a couple of Chevy racers with older cars, and some Mustangs on the next street over.

Last week my buddy down the street with the Blue SRT bought his wife a Synergy Green Camaro, then today my neighbor across the street drove up in a Yellow Camaro. A few weeks ago she said that she had looked a a new Camaro, but that there was no way she would buy one because of the poor visibility for the driver... too dangerous she said! When I asked what changed her mind, she said that she could not stand to continue watching the Green one drive by...

It looks darn good in Yellow! Its all good... at least it is not another darn Accord or Camry!

XS

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by xs29j8

Its all good... at least it is not another darn Accord or Camry!

XS

Or a Accent, or Jetta..or Passat..or...

[xs29j8]

In addition to the new 6.4L & 3.6L engines for the 2011 Challengers, there will be a mild refresh of the car. Rumored changes include a revised lower front fascia, new door handle design, new steering wheel design, and redesign or elimination of the front header panel emblem (Rams Head on 2008/2009/2010). Other unspecified interior and suspension changes have also been rumored, but no details other than an anticipated availability of new interior colors at some point during the model year.

Today the Internet got it's first peek at some of the changes when "coronet1966d" posted some pictures on Moparts.Com of a 2011 Challenger apparently caught out in the open. Although badged as a R/T, no hood emblems are visible... interesting after the report about two weeks ago that the two pilot 2011 6.4L Hemi Challengers built were white.

Below are two of the pictures with somewhat similar views of a 2010 Challenger added at the top of them. The most obvious change is the air inlet on the lower fascia... gone is the "smile" replaced with a shape somewhat reminiscent of a shark's mouth partially open. A rumored concurrent change to the front spoiler cannot be discerned. Also, the front header panel emblem is gone, but with the missing hood nameplates it may not indicate it won't be on the production car... might yet get a revised emblem, maybe with a variant of the red & black stripe logo.

The 3/4 front/side view shows the redesigned outside door handles, said to be shared with the major restyle of the 2011 Charger. BTW, the 2010 image was "flipped", so yes that is actually the drivers side shown.

Here are the comparison pics:

[klapper]

Originally Posted by assasinator

Semi-hemi to be exact. Ford used the same semi hemi technology and combustion chamber in 1969.

the heads are going to have to flow like gangbusters to make those numbers.

You are correct that Ford copied the hemi combustion chamber, but in the 427 SOHC not the 1969 Boss. That being said only 3 ohv v8s have ever been made with the intake and exhaust valves in a plane perpendicular to the crankshaft centerline: the gen I, II, and III hemis (all of which also used twin rocker shafts). The angle between the valves dropped with each successive generation but they are still unique engines and certainly not copies of any Ford cylinder head.

As for "will have to flow like gangbusters", the 392 crate motors were rated at 525 hp, so they will make the power, but not meet emissions/fuel economy/warranty requirements at the same time.

[oldlugs]

Originally Posted by klapper

You are correct that Ford copied the hemi combustion chamber, but in the 427 SOHC not the 1969 Boss...

"Hemi" chambers have been around for a long time. Peugeot used it in 1912, and Alfa Romeo used a hemi in 1914. Take a look at Jaguar's XK120. A true hemi chamber, offered in '48.
Chrysler's hemi was out 3 years later. Benefits and drawbacks of the hemi chamber were understood for over 100 years. Who thinks that Chrysler "invented" the hemi? In what way did Ford copy Chrysler?

[klapper]

Originally Posted by oldlugs

"Hemi" chambers have been around for a long time. Peugeot used it in 1912, and Alfa Romeo used a hemi in 1914. Take a look at Jaguar's XK120. A true hemi chamber, offered in '48.
Chrysler's hemi was out 3 years later. Benefits and drawbacks of the hemi chamber were understood for over 100 years. Who thinks that Chrysler "invented" the hemi? In what way did Ford copy Chrysler?

Chrysler didn't invent the hemi, although they were applying it to aircraft engine prototypes before the Jaguar hemi in WWII so Chrysler's engineering department was ahead of the curve in that respect. The Ford 427 SOHC was a response to the 426 Hemi introduced to Nascar in 1964. Ford knew their FE-series didn't have a hope so they copied the hemi, but added overhead cams. However, you can hardly tell the difference between the Chrysler 2nd Gen hemi hemi and the Ford SOHC combustion chambers with the head upside down.

Then again maybe Ford racing said: "We've just got to catch up to the 426 hemi, let's copy the combustion chamber and valve angles of a 1948 Jaguar 6 cylinder....". I wonder how close the valve angle between the 426 and the 427 SOHC is?

Chevrolet probably didn't invent the wedge combustion chamber either but when we think of wedge heads the small block chevy is what sticks in our mind since they did such a great job on that engine now 55 years ago.

[SVT_SRT]

Ok so I went the jeep dealer the other day and, a new jeep srt8 fully loaded is like $50k so if dodge wants to compete they should put the 6.1 in the r/t's.....

[CamaroTrent]

Just was on YouTube and seen that for 2011 The Dodge Challenger SRT8 is receiving an upgraded motor and they also hinted that it should beat the Camaro SS now. I have a stock 2011 SS what are some upgrades that I can do to my car to prevent me getting beat.

[d69chris]

Super Charger!

[c-dub]

driver modification ftw

[Synerbee]

Intake, exhaust, cats, headers, cam, with a tune

[96/10SS]

depends on how much hp you want to add....