Watkins Glen....Anybody Faster??

[NYROC655]

OK fellow 1LE owners, here is a lap around Watkins Glen I did a few weeks ago running in the open group with Track Master.

I finally figured out the oiling issues with the LS3 after blowing up 2 engines....yes I said 2 engines, and installing a custom dry sump system.

My 2013 1LE is highly modified with a Whipple Supercharger (656 rwhp & 609ft/lbs torgue), LME built 6.8L race engine, full race suspension, clutch and other goodies.

Here is my in car video showing a 2:12 second lap time on the long course with the brand new engine. I usually wear my fire suit but I was just breaking in the engine and did'nt think I was going that fast. Hitting the track again in a few weeks with BMW Club and will be passing a ton of M3's while I'm out there. 2:10 lap is just around the corner!!

By the way, the front splitter flew off on turn 1, got sucked under the car and flew up in the air and laid on the track for 20 minutes during a session. I guess the GM engineers did'nt figure our cars going 140mph.

[tw78911sc]

I got in the high 2:14's with my 14 1LE, stock except sway bars, your's definitely has HP!! I wished I had some of your gitty up! It accelerates much faster than mine. Was my 1st time @ Watkins and am already planning another road trip next summer!! What brakes are you running? Getting that beast to slow down going down hill is hard on brakes.

[Synner]

Post the dry sump details.

[NYROC655]

tw78911sc:

What a great run for a pretty much stock 1LE. You are very agressive and good for not knowing the course. Your run is excellent.

I am using Stoptech Big Break Kit Trophy series. I did alot of research and with the weight of the car (my weighs 4100lbs with me in it and a full tank of gas) you need some real stopping power. With the amount of HP and speeds generated, a professional braking system is needed. I see alot of members buying the CTS-V break package, I can tell you from experience, this is just a small upgrade to what is stock on our cars.

I have some pics of the Dry Sump that I will share tomorrow. They are on my work computer. If you are really going to track your car and pulling more than 1.3g's you need something other then a standard oiling system. I am living proof of oil failure in the LS3. After 2 engine failures and face to face discussions with professional technicians, you will granade your engine pushing the car at high revs and high G turns.

[tw78911sc]

wow, I had no idea about the oil/G load issue, Watkins I saw 1.4G every lap at the toe and 1.3's three or 4 other turns. The concrete is unreal grip. Is there a oil pan baffle solution? Did you grenade your motor when it was stock @ the Glen? With a real track tire, I'd think 1.5G/1.6G's are possible. The lemans car that was running (Shane Lewis) told me he was pulling 3.5G under braking and close to 3 in corners! He was turning 1:45's

Originally Posted by NYROC655

tw78911sc:

What a great run for a pretty much stock 1LE. You are very agressive and good for not knowing the course. Your run is excellent.

I am using Stoptech Big Break Kit Trophy series. I did alot of research and with the weight of the car (my weighs 4100lbs with me in it and a full tank of gas) you need some real stopping power. With the amount of HP and speeds generated, a professional braking system is needed. I see alot of members buying the CTS-V break package, I can tell you from experience, this is just a small upgrade to what is stock on our cars.

I have some pics of the Dry Sump that I will share tomorrow. They are on my work computer. If you are really going to track your car and pulling more than 1.3g's you need something other then a standard oiling system. I am living proof of oil failure in the LS3. After 2 engine failures and face to face discussions with professional technicians, you will granade your engine pushing the car at high revs and high G turns.

[Mark T]

Just when you think a stock 1LE is awesome,..
someone shows up demonstrating the 1LE can be made even better.


I too wish to know about your nuked LS3's. Stock or supercharged?

[NYROC655]

1st engine failure was last October at the Glen. Had just spent all summer building the car with track mods. Installed the Whipple supercharger, cam, 90lb injectors, adjustable fuel pump, custom CAI, oil pan baffle and all kinds of other stuff. Was runnung stock tires at this time but later upgraded. We did not change the stock oil pump and it failed on the 3rd lap! Note to others, if you are going to track your Camaro, change your oil pump!

2nd engine failure was due to oil starvation. Back on track May of this year. New aftermarket oil pump pushing about 60lbs oil to the engine. Well, when carrying high rpm's and high G's in the turns, the oil pan went dry and there goes engine #2. Sent the engine back down to LME in Texas for a complete check and thats what was discovered. By the way, this is not anything new in the LS3's according to drivers that use this engine. Talk to any Corvette owner that really pushes his car at the track and you will get the same story from him or his other track friend that runs open track and pushes his car.

Engine #3 - installed Dry Sump system with a 2.5 gallon reservoir. The oil pump is now where the A/C compressor was and the oil pan is very shallow only used to collect oil draining from the engine. We had to modify some sheet metal along the firewall on the passanger side to install the oil tank and routing the huge hoses was a challange.

The video at the beginning of the post was when I was still "breaking in" the engine. It only had 150miles on it after a dyno break in and some road miles. The car is back in the shop now getting a new front splitter put on, oil change, front pads, brake fluid, oil gauge put on and some othre minor things getting ready for the 20th of this month back at the Glen.

I am running the same 20" tires as on the new Z28 and even sand blasted the rims so the tires would not spin on the wheels.

[X25]

I bought an oil baffle from Improved Racing, and hopefully it should remedy this issue. Obviously, dry sump will also be in the cards if it doesn't. Improved Racing states that their solution is tested to work excellent up to sustained 1.4G; we'll see.

The regular Corvette LS3 has about 6 quarts of oil, whereas Camaro has 8 quarts due to a deeper oil pan design, allowing it to withstand sustained (left turn) Gs for a much longer time. Even then, you can have issues in long sustained left-turns, and a baffled and gated oil pan might significantly improve your odds.

I don't think the oil pump in our cars are vulnerable at all, but your mods might have put additional strain on the unit. If the aftermarket oil pump you replaced it with after the first failure has more flow than the stock unit, you might have actually made your car more vulnerable to failure. After all, during sustained turns, the engine tends to keep the oil in the heads, and you start going through the reserve oil in the pan. If you pump it twice as fast, you just shortened the duration of going through that oil to only half as long!

[X25]

Originally Posted by NYROC655

1st engine failure was last October at the Glen. Had just spent all summer building the car with track mods. Installed the Whipple supercharger, cam, 90lb injectors, adjustable fuel pump, custom CAI, oil pan baffle and all kinds of other stuff. Was runnung stock tires at this time but later upgraded. We did not change the stock oil pump and it failed on the 3rd lap! Note to others, if you are going to track your Camaro, change your oil pump!

2nd engine failure was due to oil starvation. Back on track May of this year. New aftermarket oil pump pushing about 60lbs oil to the engine. Well, when carrying high rpm's and high G's in the turns, the oil pan went dry and there goes engine #2. Sent the engine back down to LME in Texas for a complete check and thats what was discovered. By the way, this is not anything new in the LS3's according to drivers that use this engine. Talk to any Corvette owner that really pushes his car at the track and you will get the same story from him or his other track friend that runs open track and pushes his car.

Engine #3 - installed Dry Sump system with a 2.5 gallon reservoir. The oil pump is now where the A/C compressor was and the oil pan is very shallow only used to collect oil draining from the engine. We had to modify some sheet metal along the firewall on the passanger side to install the oil tank and routing the huge hoses was a challange.

The video at the beginning of the post was when I was still "breaking in" the engine. It only had 150miles on it after a dyno break in and some road miles. The car is back in the shop now getting a new front splitter put on, oil change, front pads, brake fluid, oil gauge put on and some othre minor things getting ready for the 20th of this month back at the Glen.

I am running the same 20" tires as on the new Z28 and even sand blasted the rims so the tires would not spin on the wheels.

Z/28 runs on 19" wheels/tires.

[NYROC655]

X25:

You are correct with both above posts!

With engine #1 failure, my stock oil pump internal valve got stuck open on a burr inside the cylinder pathway causing no oil pressure. It was a GM defect and GM does have a bulletin out on this for our engines.

The failure of engine #2 is exactly what you descripe in your post #8. You are 100% correct. Here is a picture of the oil pan baffle I installed but again, if there is no oil in the pan, it is useless!

[X25]

Originally Posted by NYROC655

X25:

You are correct with both above posts!

With engine #1 failure, my stock oil pump internal valve got stuck open on a burr inside the cylinder pathway causing no oil pressure. It was a GM defect and GM does have a bulletin out on this for our engines.

The failure of engine #2 is exactly what you descripe in your post #8. You are 100% correct. Here is a picture of the oil pan baffle I installed but again, if there is no oil in the pan, it is useless!

Here is hoping you won't have to deal with these issues ever again; it must have been very frustrating! I did not know about the oil pump issue; I'll get my car delivered next week, and hopefully GM solved the issue already, but I wonder if my brother's 2013 1LE (which we bought today!) has the defective unit.

[White_SS/RS]

X25, post the install of the pan baffle when you get your car. You'll either have to raise the engine or drop the front cradle to get the pan off. Although I do think theres a thread where someone cut the cross member and modified it to bolt in afterwards.

[X25]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

X25, post the install of the pan baffle when you get your car. You'll either have to raise the engine or drop the front cradle to get the pan off. Although I do think theres a thread where someone cut the cross member and modified it to bolt in afterwards.

Yeah, I was hoping to have it installed by my friend who has a collision shop. I don't think it would be too hard for him to cut that bar and weld in flanges for the next time.

[White_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by X25

Yeah, I was hoping to have it installed by my friend who has a collision shop. I don't think it would be too hard for him to cut that bar and weld in flanges for the next time.

It would be cake, if your good with cutting up your car. If you get your car next week you should come down to Portland on the 18th and break it in on track. EarlyApex and I will be down there running with the BMW club.