Hypothetical - forced induction for roadcourses - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

bkevind · 02-15-2017, 10:14 AM

Preface: there is a 1% chance I will add forced induction to my car, but I like to think about it. I am also well aware that it's not necessary, and money is better spent on grip, brakes and most importantly - seat time.

My actual plans are simply:
-Drive the car as is, explore it's strengths and weaknesses, mostly I need to unlearn bad habits of overdriving that I used to get away with.
-add LTH with HFC, because I want to
-explore "stage 1" brake upgrades followed by possible conversion to the ZL1 brake kit as needed, or bbk.
-Consider suspension upgrades (Ohlins R&T is top of my list currently)
-Might lead to a BTR road course cam at some point if I get the rest of the car and driver dialed in and want a little more pep.

With that in mind, I'd like to hear your thoughts about reliable and effective boost with road course longevity, and skip all the sound advice about what to do instead.

It seemed like a bad idea to me from the kits I see, and it seems most people do it for roll racing and drags. Fun I'm sure but I worry that those kind of builds would not last in a more punishing environment.

One supercharger caught my attention above all, the Heartbeat. Reading the design intention and measurement, Magnusson seems to have made that SC exactly for what I would want. Downside is the price. 7-8k for just the SC?

LSA SC kit seems like a cost effective way to go, but how reliable will that be on the LS3 for brutally long and hot track sessions? What would it cost to on top of the kit to ensure the kind of robust reliability I'm looking for?

It seems the main point of contention is going to be heat management.

Turbos? I've had a few cars that came turbocharged, and I enjoyed them on and off the track. Easy to tune for more power etc, but adding a system to NA car is a different story. Not against the idea, but going SC seems to be more in character with the LS3.

xc_SS/RS · 02-24-2017, 12:43 PM

The issue is going to come down to cooling. You should post in the ZL1 section or read some of their track driving reviews/stories to get a better idea of what you would need to upgrade for forced induction track driving. These cars have troubles keeping oil temps down on track while NA so that should be priority number one for serious track driving.

I see you've got a 2013 1LE, if you haven't you might want to think about adding the 2014 heat extractor to your hood (or some other form of heat extractor) to help with cooling/reduce lift. Sadly I have no track experience, but from what I have read about these cars on track a good oil cooler is a very necessary upgrade. Front brake ducts are also a very good idea since the cars are so heavy.

I'm sure others will post with better answers, but I did not see cooling as a upgrade on your list and thought I'd mention it

STUNNAH · 02-25-2017, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xc_SS/RS

The issue is going to come down to cooling. You should post in the ZL1 section or read some of their track driving reviews/stories to get a better idea of what you would need to upgrade for forced induction track driving. These cars have troubles keeping oil temps down on track while NA so that should be priority number one for serious track driving.

I see you've got a 2013 1LE, if you haven't you might want to think about adding the 2014 heat extractor to your hood (or some other form of heat extractor) to help with cooling/reduce lift. Sadly I have no track experience, but from what I have read about these cars on track a good oil cooler is a very necessary upgrade. Front brake ducts are also a very good idea since the cars are so heavy.

I'm sure others will post with better answers, but I did not see cooling as a upgrade on your list and thought I'd mention it

I agree that cooling is a major concern for SC cars, that is one reason the Z28 is so popular, because it is a purpose built unit...You may be better served by making suspension, and as you mentioned traction and braking upgrades vs SC...SC will heat soak and labor in track racing and result in slower lap times...

Kopterman · 02-25-2017, 06:04 PM

Maybe a centrifugal SC like the ESC1500 would do better on the track without heat soak since its not directly on top of the engine?

bkevind · 02-26-2017, 06:11 PM

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Most dividends no doubt would come from modifications towards consistent reliability, such as cooling, brakes, and grip (suspension and tires).

I look at forced induction out of curiosity, and because I love more power than needed, and it got me thinking about how to get it done properly. Then I saw the heartbeat SC and it caught my attention.

cmack · 02-27-2017, 08:00 AM

Why are the TT kits not good for road course? Specifically I'm referring to the bottom mount AGP kit. Additional weight is down low and has big intercooler. I can understand the heat issues of a top mount TT kits. Does it just boil down to when/where the boost does come on? - I am just curious..

STUNNAH · 02-27-2017, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmack

Why are the TT kits not good for road course? Specifically I'm referring to the bottom mount AGP kit. Additional weight is down low and has big intercooler. I can understand the heat issues of a top mount TT kits. Does it just boil down to when/where the boost does come on? - I am just curious....

The best I can explain is this...When or where the boost kicks in is not the issue...The issue is how to maintain cooler IAT temps...Once the temps get on the high side the ecm adds more timing, which starts to slow the car...If the IAT can be cooled by a intercooler, heat extractor, heat exchanger and be consistent in doing so then in theory SC or Turbo's would make for great track cars...It has been difficult to find that fine line with our cars...So most that track race focus on suspension, traction and braking which makes our cars overall faster, by better braking and acceleration thru the curves, and doing so repeatedly without an issue of heat soak...

AGP Turbo · 02-28-2017, 03:28 PM

Our turbo system can maintain without heat soak on a road course. Centri's can to. Heat soak is a much bigger issue with liquid cooled type intercoolers as they have a fixed amount of cooling medium. The water just get's hotter and hotter. On a good air-air system since you have unlimited ambient temperature cooling medium, you could hold dead flat IAT temps all day. You don't see 18wheelers running liquid intercoolers for this reason. They have to run air-air to be able to drive for hours in boost.

02-15-2017, 10:14 AM	#1
bkevind Drives: 2013 2SS RS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Austin Posts: 555 View My Garage	Hypothetical - forced induction for roadcourses Preface: there is a 1% chance I will add forced induction to my car, but I like to think about it. I am also well aware that it's not necessary, and money is better spent on grip, brakes and most importantly - seat time. My actual plans are simply: -Drive the car as is, explore it's strengths and weaknesses, mostly I need to unlearn bad habits of overdriving that I used to get away with. -add LTH with HFC, because I want to -explore "stage 1" brake upgrades followed by possible conversion to the ZL1 brake kit as needed, or bbk. -Consider suspension upgrades (Ohlins R&T is top of my list currently) -Might lead to a BTR road course cam at some point if I get the rest of the car and driver dialed in and want a little more pep. With that in mind, I'd like to hear your thoughts about reliable and effective boost with road course longevity, and skip all the sound advice about what to do instead. It seemed like a bad idea to me from the kits I see, and it seems most people do it for roll racing and drags. Fun I'm sure but I worry that those kind of builds would not last in a more punishing environment. One supercharger caught my attention above all, the Heartbeat. Reading the design intention and measurement, Magnusson seems to have made that SC exactly for what I would want. Downside is the price. 7-8k for just the SC? LSA SC kit seems like a cost effective way to go, but how reliable will that be on the LS3 for brutally long and hot track sessions? What would it cost to on top of the kit to ensure the kind of robust reliability I'm looking for? It seems the main point of contention is going to be heat management. Turbos? I've had a few cars that came turbocharged, and I enjoyed them on and off the track. Easy to tune for more power etc, but adding a system to NA car is a different story. Not against the idea, but going SC seems to be more in character with the LS3.

02-24-2017, 12:43 PM	#2
xc_SS/RS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: somewhere in MD Posts: 4,883	The issue is going to come down to cooling. You should post in the ZL1 section or read some of their track driving reviews/stories to get a better idea of what you would need to upgrade for forced induction track driving. These cars have troubles keeping oil temps down on track while NA so that should be priority number one for serious track driving. I see you've got a 2013 1LE, if you haven't you might want to think about adding the 2014 heat extractor to your hood (or some other form of heat extractor) to help with cooling/reduce lift. Sadly I have no track experience, but from what I have read about these cars on track a good oil cooler is a very necessary upgrade. Front brake ducts are also a very good idea since the cars are so heavy. I'm sure others will post with better answers, but I did not see cooling as a upgrade on your list and thought I'd mention it __________________ 2010 2SS/RS Z/28 intake, NW, FAST 102, speed engineering LT's, some exhaust, ATI -10% pulley, GM flex fuel injectors, DSX flex fuel sensor, MGW shifter, HP Tuners, some suspension work, stickers and a little weight loss. 12.63 @113.53

02-27-2017, 08:00 AM	#6
cmack Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 196 View My Garage	Why are the TT kits not good for road course? Specifically I'm referring to the bottom mount AGP kit. Additional weight is down low and has big intercooler. I can understand the heat issues of a top mount TT kits. Does it just boil down to when/where the boost does come on? - I am just curious.. Last edited by cmack; 03-08-2017 at 03:15 PM.

02-25-2017, 06:04 PM	#4
Kopterman Drives: 2014 Bright Yellow 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: NH Posts: 794 View My Garage	Maybe a centrifugal SC like the ESC1500 would do better on the track without heat soak since its not directly on top of the engine?

02-26-2017, 06:11 PM	#5
bkevind Drives: 2013 2SS RS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Austin Posts: 555 View My Garage	Thanks for your thoughts guys. Most dividends no doubt would come from modifications towards consistent reliability, such as cooling, brakes, and grip (suspension and tires). I look at forced induction out of curiosity, and because I love more power than needed, and it got me thinking about how to get it done properly. Then I saw the heartbeat SC and it caught my attention.

02-28-2017, 03:28 PM	#8
AGP Turbo Drives: All things Turbocharged Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 1,199	Our turbo system can maintain without heat soak on a road course. Centri's can to. Heat soak is a much bigger issue with liquid cooled type intercoolers as they have a fixed amount of cooling medium. The water just get's hotter and hotter. On a good air-air system since you have unlimited ambient temperature cooling medium, you could hold dead flat IAT temps all day. You don't see 18wheelers running liquid intercoolers for this reason. They have to run air-air to be able to drive for hours in boost.