Turned in my 335i today (warning long post)

[Dirtdog]

Originally Posted by Miami_Vice454

i hate the challenger, its way too big. i would take a mustang over a challenger too. and i think this guy is confused with what he wants because to me he is more interested in ergonomics and features than in performance, etc. he should stick with the Beamer if that is the cause because no american car is even close to the quality of a beamer. but i would never have anything else than a chevy for some reason?

I would take the Mustang over a challenger too, for the same reasons...

btw, its Bimmer. Beamers are BMW motorcycles.

[Ohten]

I had a 335i prior to my Camaro and I purchased it for these reasons...........
1:I liked it
2:I liked it long enough to wait for the Camaro to be released.
3:great bargaining chip
When it came down to all the creature comforts they were nice but being old school,there is nothing like the rumble of a V8 when you take the pedal to the floor.

[Bushidopupil]

HA HA, What is so funny about this thread is that I also have a 335i, although mine is an XI and a four door. I will trade mine in on the Z28 if it ever comes out.

I have been toying with just getting a modded SS but I know that I would kick myself for not waiting to see what the Z is going to look/perform like.

[Ohten]

Before and after.......................

[2001ragtop]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

...Given that we buys these cards as fun toys and not just transportation devices I would call this first evaluation a tie....

You sound like me. Because these cars definitely qualify as a "tie".

One car is cool but NOT in your face. the other one, if you go anywhere, you will have the entire city following you around including Cletus the slack jawed Yokel from the Simpsons.

Pick one and stick with it.

[Fraxum]

This is the for now conclusion of my Camaro SS evaluation against the Coyote Mustang.

I wanted to wait until I drove both cars back to back to give my driving impressions.

I started the day driving to visit my aunt who lives on the Mullica River in the '97 WS6. I am reminded of just how much fun this car is driving around with the booming LT1, open T-Tops, and good tunes. By the end of a long day I was glad to get out of it. Another 4th Gen reminder. After comparing all 3 cars together side by side, the '97 WS6 is the most outrageous. It gets a a lot of looks.

A couple of other physical observations.

The top of the door in the SS with seat at mid height is just about the same as the height of the top of the door on the WS6. relative to my shoulder. Yet when you compare the SS and WS6 side by side the top of the door is much higher in the SS. There is the 4th gen sitting in the bath tub feeling. The WS6 seat is much lower than the SS. You do not get that feeling in the SS.

The SS sun visors are useless. I suppose if they were long enough to be useful you would not be able to see out of the side windows with the visors down. They are vestigial much like a penguin's wings. You would think someone at GM would have noticed during the sun visor design phase and rang some alarm bells.

The SS looks taller and wider that the WS6. The WS6 looks badder.

The Mustang is better looking than both of the GM cars but does not have the pizzaz of either. It is roughly the same size and weighs about the same as the WS6. Kudos to Ford for keeping the weight down.

Driving impressions:

I drove the SS on the first day of my search but drove another one today.

The cars:

* 2010 6m Grey 2 SS RS with a roof (no HUD)
* 2011 6m Silver 2 SS RS with a roof and black stripes
* 2011 6m Mustang GT Premium, No Brembo, Shaker 1000, gingerbread package, 19" wheels, and the famous 3.73 gears

Both SSes felt the same driving, not surprising. Did not miss the HUD on the 2010.

The Handlng:

As much as I could evaluate on one short and one longer test drive the Camaro is a first class handler. It did feel a bit ponderous and a bit reluctant to turn in, but remember, I just came from a 335i. After looking at the Pedders web site this behavior is easy to fix. That being said the car felt refined, planted and well under control if a little prone to oversteer. The ride was very smooth and felt very European.

The Mustang felt a little tighter and easier to toss around. The handling and ride was otherwise very similar to the Camaro. Remember this was not a Brembo GT. So I imagine the Brembo is even a little tighter with a rougher ride. But this was a very fair test, standard suspension to standard suspension.

So the standard Mustang just edges out the SS in handling in my view. It might be easy to blame this difference in the 200 pound weight difference but I suspect this is not the true culprit. I think the substandard Camaro suspension bushings and heavy 20" wheels and tires are at fault. Others may know more on this topic. Both were very fun to drive, way beyond my WS6, and both behind my ex 335i.

Power:

Mustang wins this one too, but not by much. That low gearing may have helped get the Mustang off the line with a weaker feeling off idle. Once on the cam the Mustang pulls a little harder. I am sure of the cars I drove the best driver would win. If a driver could clone him or herself and drive both cars at once the Mustang would have an advantage. But of course this is silly. You would not want to clone yourself to test-drive two cars. How would you explain this to your significant other?

So slight speed edge to the Mustang.

One funny thing happened in the Mustang. I made a left at a light and ran through the gears. No one was in front of me as I rounded a bend and all of a sudden the salesman shouted (yes shouted) "Slow it down! Slow it down." Was there an invisible car or traffic light in front of me? Why was he shouting?

There sitting behind a tree on the side of the road was a police car. I checked and I was doing 75 in a 45. Oops! I slowed it down. He did not come after us and then the salesman apologized for shouting. He said the cop left us alone because he could see the sticker in the window and his dealership generates so much tax revenue for the town. Maybe he was right or maybe I was lucky.

At the end of the GT test drive the salesman did something way cool. He had me drive behind this empty building on their car lot .

Then he said "Stop". I did. as instructed.

Then he said "This is our lot and as you can see there is no one back here. Go ahead and see what it can do. But stop before you smash into that row of cars in the back."

Cool! I took the revs up to about 1500 and dropped the clutch while planting my right foot. I did not have the heart to ask to turn the Traction control off so there was no spin as I launched and bogged a little off the line This is the one time I felt the Coyote come on the cam. This s a great motor. I had no comparable experience like this with the 2 SSes i drove. I stopped before the cars with room to spare without hard braking.

Other factors:

Shifting: In the shifting category neither was stellar, the Mustang a bit crisper, but notchier. The SS was a bit mushier but still better than than the WS6 was when it was stock. A tie here. Both shifters are usable, but if I were to go to the track both would need replacing.

Engine Sounds: The SS was the clear winner here for me. Both cars were a little too quiet. I did not like the sucking sounds of the GT sound tube and the exhaust sounded a bit blatty/puffy when you passed 4K. I have also heard sound clips on the web of the GT with aftermarket exhaust. My old 302 Mustang sounded better to my ears. The SS was too quiet but was pure LSx. Maybe I like this better because my LS1 Camaro was one of my favorite cars. In any event as far as engine sound goes stock my opinion is:

1. LT1 (My WS6 is not stock exhaust and sets off car alarms, what power!)
2. Old 302 Ford
3. LS3
4. New 302

Braking: Since I did not want any salesman to soil their pants on my watch (again) I did not perform any extreme braking tests. But the Mustang's optional Brembo package is equal to the standard Camaro brakes. Both sets of brakes seemed easy to modulate and powerful. The winner is Chevy here for making the good brakes standard.

Driving Intangibles: I loved driving both cars. Many have complained about the SS steering wheel and the bigness of it. I did not get a sense of that. I liked he Mustang interior better on the second day of comparing. The SS interior grew on me as well. Both had more electronics than I could mess around with on these quick test drives. As long as i get Ipod control either would be fine. Still I am wondering about the advantages of Sync. Being a software engineer I like tech. Onstar was cool in the SS. Although the plans seem expensive. The Onstar NAV directions was ok, but it nice to have that visual in front of you. I like the satellite unlocking feature. Over all though, and I cannot put my finger on exactly why, but I liked driving the Camaro a little better.

List Price with my preferences:

* SS (2011 price): $37,745 2SS, RS, Sunroof, Interior accent pack
* But I would add: $39,065 Stripes, Hurst shifter, and polished wheels

* Mustang (2011 with SS level options): $39,295 with GT Premium, Comfort, Brembo, Hids, Security, glass roof, premier trim
* But I would add More: $41,875 adding Electronics, and backup camara,

I want a black car with red/orange interior. On the mustang I would like no stripes and on the SS Orange stripes

So according to my tastes I would save a little money buying the SS.

My conclusion (as of day 2)

The Mustang is a great car. But I liked the Camaro better. I liked having the sunroof. I like the idea of IRS but in my test drives I did not feel the advantage. I can mod the Camaro quite easily to more than erase the Mustang's sporting advantages and have a sunroof.

One thing was weird, the Chevy lot had about 15 Camaros and they were hardly dealing at all, even on the 2010s. But they did offer me $6,500 for the WS6. At the ford place ordering a car was all we discussed. The 5.0s are selling like hotcakes. That would be under Xplan at Ford which is very close to inovice. The company I work for is a partner with GM and Ford so I would hope if I ordered a Camaro I could get one close to invoice. Maybe I just have to find the right dealer.

Thanks for reading.

[jrc1122]

Let us know what you end up buying..

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

This is the for now conclusion of my Camaro SS evaluation against the Coyote Mustang.

The Mustang is a great car. But I liked the Camaro better. I liked having the sunroof. I like the idea of IRS but in my test drives I did not feel the advantage. I can mod the Camaro quite easily to more than erase the Mustang's sporting advantages and have a sunroof.

One thing was weird, the Chevy lot had about 15 Camaros and they were hardly dealing at all, even on the 2010s. But they did offer me $6,500 for the WS6. At the ford place ordering a car was all we discussed. The 5.0s are selling like hotcakes. That would be under Xplan at Ford which is very close to novice. The company I work for is a partner with GM and Ford so I would hope if I ordered a Camaro I could get one close to invoice. Maybe I just have to find the right dealer.

Thanks for reading.

Good review. Cars are pretty similar, get the one that turns u on.... I get most of my cars on the xplan, that pricing is hard to beat even when you are a good haggler...

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by philipdistefano

It seems like the Camaro crowd all likes the Challenger and hates the Mustang, and I can't figure out why. I love the Mustang, and I'd probably have one if I didn't have a Camaro.

I think much of the hate is the result of years of Mustang/Camaro rivalry. You get the same thing about Camaros on the Mustang forums.

If you like muscle cars I cannot see how you can hate either one. But of course you might like one over the other. I can see how you can hate an Aveo however.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Miami_Vice454

i hate the challenger, its way too big. i would take a mustang over a challenger too. and i think this guy is confused with what he wants because to me he is more interested in ergonomics and features than in performance, etc. he should stick with the Beamer if that is the cause because no american car is even close to the quality of a beamer. but i would never have anything else than a chevy for some reason?

You are right. I am confused because both cars are so good. When I leased the BMW there were not very good choices for me among V8 rear drive cars. Now three years later there are!

I have owned:
351 Falcon
340 Duster
Old school GTO
2 Mustang GTs
LT1 Camaro
LS1 Camaro
LTI Firebird

So far i have owned only 2 german cars, the 335i and a Jetta.

I liked the BMW but found it a little boring. But it too is a great car. However V8s are for me.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Ohten

I had a 335i prior to my Camaro and I purchased it for these reasons...........
1:I liked it
2:I liked it long enough to wait for the Camaro to be released.
3:great bargaining chip
When it came down to all the creature comforts they were nice but being old school,there is nothing like the rumble of a V8 when you take the pedal to the floor.

+1

[1badSS/RS]

Originally Posted by raqball

I would have NEVER guessed this:



My numbers would look like this:

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75

Add the Challenger into the mix...

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75
* Challenger exterior appearance: 8.70

I personally think the Mustang is hideous and would buy a Challenger long before even considering the Stang...

[jshaf]

Originally Posted by raqball

I would have NEVER guessed this:



My numbers would look like this:

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75

Add the Challenger into the mix...

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75
* Challenger exterior appearance: 8.70

I personally think the Mustang is hideous and would buy a Challenger long before even considering the Stang...

Not a huge fan of the Mustang exterior, ye it's retro but I was never a huge fan of the 65-67 origional stang look so hence not totally digging the new retro look. If I didn't have a choice of Camaro and Challenger then maybe I would consider driving a stang but luckily we have the Camaro.

[squat]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Interesting that you have a G8. The third car on my list is a G8 GXP 6M with the roof. Very hard to find within 1,000 miles of my house. I like 4 doors and wish you could buy a 4 door Camaro.

The G8 is a great car, but like you said they are pretty rare. You would almost certainly have to look for a used one these days since they're not made anymore. I would have gotten a V8 if they didn't close down pontiac and I could've waited another year or two before buying one, but funds only allowed for a V6. Regardless I love it.