want advise for horse power

[djpelosi]

Originally Posted by axis

Where did I say that it would be cheaper to go FI than NA?

Did you totally miss this?



You missed my point about being STREETABLE, and getting GOOD gas mileage, which the OP mentioned in his first post. An all out NA build isn't going to have the best street manners for someone that's wanting use this as a DD.

Well, I may have misread. You didn't actually say it would cost more, but the way you wrote it made it sound like you were implying that it would cost more. "You can achieve your goals NA, but it's going to be a max effort build with the stock cubes. That translates into $$$$."

I know a lot of people running heads/cam cars as dailys and have no problem with streetability or gas mileage. He's only looking for 540 rwhp, not 800, so what exactly makes a FI car more streetable at 540 RWHP than a heads/cam car? If it's an auto... a decent stall should pretty much take care of the streetable part. And as far as gas mileage... generally more power = less mpg no matter what you go with. I'm not arguing any points here, I'm just curious what the answers are.

[Lost_angl13]

I'm not worried about emissions since the car is registered in Washington aand I'm keeping it that way since I'm military and wife still lives up there... All ill need is 80 horses to get to 500 I can easily spend 5 grand on it and I don't feel like super charging it since I don't want to spend 8 or 9 thousand on one and I don't think they finance them so I'm going with what seems more easier before a charger

[Lost_angl13]

And I have a 6 speed

[djpelosi]

Originally Posted by Lost_angl13

I'm not worried about emissions since the car is registered in Washington aand I'm keeping it that way since I'm military and wife still lives up there... All ill need is 80 horses to get to 500 I can easily spend 5 grand on it and I don't feel like super charging it since I don't want to spend 8 or 9 thousand on one and I don't think they finance them so I'm going with what seems more easier before a charger

You won't need 5k to get 80 more horses. You do a cam swap/port the heads and intake which is probably a little over $3000 if you have a shop do it and you'll hit 500 rwhp no problem.

[Lost_angl13]

That's the ideas I like... what would be a good cam to go with a lot of friends tell me to get a custom grind is that a good idea and what would a custom grind be?

[djpelosi]

Originally Posted by Lost_angl13

That's the ideas I like... what would be a good cam to go with a lot of friends tell me to get a custom grind is that a good idea and what would a custom grind be?

Custom grind means the cam is specifically cast for your goals and current/future setup. Some people choose to go this route, and some people just get an off the shelf cam that has been proven to make good power with any application. As I said before, the two I'd recommend are the 235/239 cam by TSP or the Night Fury cam by Lethal Racing. Both have tons of videos on YouTube so you can hear what they sound like, and both have great reviews on the web. With your current mods, and the suggestions posted so far, you will have no problem getting 500 RWHP. If you want any more than that without nitrous, you'll have to consider buying new heads and intake.

[Lost_angl13]

OK thanks... I just need to find a shop in southern California who will mess with this ls3

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

Forced induction will get you better gas mileage than a CAM. It might cost more but then you are not in a car that shakes at idle. You have to remember to get a CAM to add more power you are going to get a car that shakes more. If a stick shift you are going to have to learn how to drive it without stalling it. It will also be harder on your clutch.

Forced induction can be harder on your clutch also but if you are not doing 3-4k rpm clutch drops you should be ok.

[BubbaSS]

Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D

Forced induction will get you better gas mileage than a CAM. It might cost more but then you are not in a car that shakes at idle. You have to remember to get a CAM to add more power you are going to get a car that shakes more. If a stick shift you are going to have to learn how to drive it without stalling it. It will also be harder on your clutch.

Forced induction can be harder on your clutch also but if you are not doing 3-4k rpm clutch drops you should be ok.

That "car shaking at idle" part sounds yummy! Where do I sign up?

[Lost_angl13]

Would I have to change rockers? Or can I run stock? Or what internals will I have to change?

[axis]

Originally Posted by djpelosi

Well, I may have misread. You didn't actually say it would cost more, but the way you wrote it made it sound like you were implying that it would cost more. "You can achieve your goals NA, but it's going to be a max effort build with the stock cubes. That translates into $$$$."

I know a lot of people running heads/cam cars as dailys and have no problem with streetability or gas mileage. He's only looking for 540 rwhp, not 800, so what exactly makes a FI car more streetable at 540 RWHP than a heads/cam car? If it's an auto... a decent stall should pretty much take care of the streetable part. And as far as gas mileage... generally more power = less mpg no matter what you go with. I'm not arguing any points here, I'm just curious what the answers are.

ONLY 540whp on the stock bottom end? I can name ONE car that's running that much NA HP with stock cubes. It happens to belong to Rhino79 of GPI. I'd imagine that a few other shops have similar builds but I haven't seen them advertised. I'd bet there aren't more than a couple. Streetability is HIGHLY subjective. Personally, I don't think a big ass stall is considered streetable, let alone the surging and bucking, which a huge cam is going to do. Have you every driven/rode in a high HP FI car? You can EASILY have a 600+whp FI car that drives COMPLETELY like stock, until you get on it. No surging, no bucking, and no need for a massive stall, if you're not going to drag race it. When cruising and regular driving, you gas mileage will suffer very little, compared to a big ass cam.

My point about $$$ was that he won't get anywhere near his goals with the typical cam swap. He's going to need every last bolt-on, along with a huge cam, and great heads.

[djpelosi]

Originally Posted by axis

ONLY 540whp on the stock bottom end? I can name ONE car that's running that much NA HP with stock cubes. It happens to belong to Rhino79 of GPI. I'd imagine that a few other shops have similar builds but I haven't seen them advertised. I'd bet there aren't more than a couple.

Where have you been lately??? There are TONS of stock bottom end LS3s pushing way more than 540 rwhp.... a simple google search will show this to you. There's even a thread about this subject on the camaro5 forum: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273430. There are guys claiming 800+ RWHP on the stock bottom end, so I'm not sure exactly why you seem so surprised that 540 RWHP is a lot... The last post on the first page of that thread I posted is of East Coast Supercharging saying they've built 100's of stock bottom end LS1/2/3/6/7 cars with over 700 RWHP.

Originally Posted by Lost_angl13

Would I have to change rockers? Or can I run stock? Or what internals will I have to change?

With a good cam build, it's always a good idea to go ahead and swap out everything you can, while you can. This means the cam, oil pump, timing chain, rocker arms, pushrods, lifters and springs.

[axis]

Originally Posted by djpelosi

There are TONS of stock bottom end LS3s pushing way more than 540 rwhp.... a simple google search will show this to you. There's even a thread about this subject on the camaro5 forum: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273430. There are guys claiming 800+ RWHP on the stock bottom end, so I'm not sure exactly why you seem so surprised that 540 RWHP is a lot... The last post on the first page of that thread I posted is of East Coast Supercharging saying they've built 100's of stock bottom end LS3's with over 700 RWHP.

Dude, can you not read? ALL of those cars are FI cars. Show me that list of 540+whp NATURALLY ASPIRATED CARS. The OP is wanting that much HP naturally aspirated.

And could it be possible to achieve that much horsepower with a cam?

[djpelosi]

Originally Posted by axis

Dude, can you not read? ALL of those cars are FI cars. Show me that list of 540+whp NATURALLY ASPIRATED CARS. The OP is wanting that much HP naturally aspirated.

I know what the OP is wanting and this has nothing to do with that. This is simply in regards to your "540rwhp on stock bottom end" comment. My point is: regardless of whether or not a motor is NA or FI, 540+ RWHP on the stock bottom end on these LS motors are happening everywhere and it's not uncommon. Those other cars being supercharged on the stock bottom end making 800+ rwhp are even more stress on the motors than a heads/cam package and yet they are still holding up. Who cares if the others are supercharged? Horsepower on the stock bottom end is horsepower on the stock bottom end whether you're supercharged or not.