Warranty Officially Voided

[ravensjeff]

I'd be slightly upset myself. Glad to hear that nothing happened to the engine though.

I've replaced just about everything in my entire drivetrain--they would probably void my glove compartment warranty!!

[ffrcobra_65]

OP, I think you have a good shot at winning this one should you decide to take it to small claims. The question is, do you have the time and willing to spend $$ on filing fees for a 50/50 shot? Personally, I would just get it fixed for definitely less than the dealer quoted and spare myself the aggravation and start enjoying the car again.

I am aware of the stuck oil pump. My mechanic warned me about it as he has had at least two 5th Gen Camaros come in for low oil pressure. He was actually already aware of the problem way before the TSB came out. I am watching mine but if it does fail, I won't even bother with the dealer. Good luck.

[Blueclyde]

Very sticky situation here. Scares me as I have a brand new car (not even delivered yet) that I am going to do similar modifications to + ported heads.

I can see GM's point, but your position is 100% valid and logical. I'm just not sure how to break through on that position though. It would seem to me that your dealer may have some pull with GM if they elected to take up your cause. If this is a known TSB type issue than I could see GM allowing the repair with some input from the dealer. Just my 2 cents...

Good luck.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by DarkObsession

Everyone likes to bring up the Magnuson Moss act and say that you have to prove that the part caused the failure, etc. etc. but when I read it, it doesn't say anything about that.

All it says as related to aftermarket parts is that GM can't deny you warranty if you decide to not use an AC Delco oil filter on your car or drop a Fram air filter in there. It doesn't say anything about extensive aftermarket modifications being protected and/or having to prove if the part caused the failure.

I could just be mis-reading it but if someone could point out the exact section that says that GM should cover heavily modified cars, I'd appreciate it.

Correct, or a little broader, if your A/C craps out they can't void the warranty because you have an aftermarket exhaust on the car. Unrelated parts. Also why GTAHVT was able to get his PDIM replaced on his heavily modded car.

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

So, you have reliable sources confirm something without seeing it? Since the car is still at the dealership I assume and still in one piece, there is absolutely no way to confirm that something didn't happen during the mod installation.

Originally Posted by themossman

They confirmed emphatically that the modifications that were performed would not have an adverse impact on the oil pump operation.

Thats all well and good but Gary has a point. Nobody has taken the car apart yet. So you don't know if its the valve that crapped out which is part of the recall. As well while I don't know how exactly it operates on the LS3, isn't an oil pump driven by the cam/timing chain, both of which were replaced? Yes the operation should be the same, but your mods directly affect the operation of the part.

As I said, they don't know if something could have happened during installation or who knows what, and they aren't going to disassemble your engine to find out only to deny your claim then when the fairly obvious answer is you voided your warranty.

[themossman]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Correct, or a little broader, if your A/C craps out they can't void the warranty because you have an aftermarket exhaust on the car. Unrelated parts. Also why GTAHVT was able to get his PDIM replaced on his heavily modded car.

Thats all well and good but Gary has a point. Nobody has taken the car apart yet. So you don't know if its the valve that crapped out which is part of the recall. As well while I don't know how exactly it operates on the LS3, isn't an oil pump driven by the cam/timing chain, both of which were replaced? Yes the operation should be the same, but your mods directly affect the operation of the part.

As I said, they don't know if something could have happened during installation or who knows what, and they aren't going to disassemble your engine to find out only to deny your claim then when the fairly obvious answer is you voided your warranty.

You are spot on. We don't know what part is faulty yet...I was getting my ducks in a row BEFORE the issue was isolated when the word came from GM that a claim would be denied against the power train warranty. I've making some assumptions based on the TSP and behaviors the car exhibited.

I am trying to figure out the best way to proceed forward...and I'm waiting for the issue to escalate appropriately with GM. I want to do what's right...I DO NOT want to make a claim that is invalid. If I modded something that caused the failure...I'll pay. There is no question about that in my mind. The only reason I'm pursuing this AT ALL is because there is a TSP that seems to address the symptoms my car is exhibiting and that TSP involves part(s) that are unaffected by my modifications.

[GaryTucker]

The biggest issue you have with going to court is that statements such as the ones below from a thread last year on tuning and warranty coverage could surface as we all realize that the internet can be an asset or liablilty as it's "there forever"...(I've deleted all but the potential problem statements) :

04-01-2010, 12:27 PM #131
themossman
Apprehensive Optimist



Drives: '10 SS/RS SIM

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: JAX
Posts: 1,220
iTrader Rating: 0 reviews Quote:
as you can see...I wasn't too concerned about the warranty...just so you know where I am coming from....

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__________________
Ordered 10/13/08 -----> Delivered 6/15/09----->Modified 6/30/09
Current Summary:
Engine:Phase One-(All work by Vengeance Racing): Custom Cam, AR Headers, ported throttle body, ported intake, custom tune, dual valve springs, hardened push rods, under drive pulley, thermostat, Vararam CAI, C5R timing chain, catch can, breather, MagnaFlow Sport Axle Back
Suspension: Pfadt Sport Sway Bars, Pfadt drop springs
Other: MGW Shifter, Custom Paint
my build journal ---->http://camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30057



Or this one:

themossman
Apprehensive Optimist



Drives: '10 SS/RS SIM

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: JAX
Posts: 1,220
iTrader Rating: 0 reviews Quote:

Perhaps the easiest thing to do right now is state a simple fact (until someone disputes it):

"We have not had any owner on this forum that has documented a warranty VOIDED(in its entirety) by GM due to a PCM tune."

Not one that I've heard of at least. Is there risk? Certainly. Who bears the burden of that risk: as you've stated in your EULA..BUYER BEWARE...or...more appropriately...BUYER BE AWARE


I hope you didn't feel like I was attacking you or your position...just your approach.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by themossman

You are spot on. We don't know what part is faulty yet...I was getting my ducks in a row BEFORE the issue was isolated when the word came from GM that a claim would be denied against the power train warranty. I've making some assumptions based on the TSP and behaviors the car exhibited.

I am trying to figure out the best way to proceed forward...and I'm waiting for the issue to escalate appropriately with GM. I want to do what's right...I DO NOT want to make a claim that is invalid. If I modded something that caused the failure...I'll pay. There is no question about that in my mind. The only reason I'm pursuing this AT ALL is because there is a TSP that seems to address the symptoms my car is exhibiting and that TSP involves part(s) that are unaffected by my modifications.

Well I do wish you luck, and good of you to try and do it the right way, it will keep you out of a hole and keep your dignity. However I believe you have an uphill battle here.

[themossman]

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

The biggest issue you have with going to court is that statements such as the ones below from a thread last year on tuning and warranty coverage could surface as we all realize that the internet can be an asset or liablilty as it's "there forever"...(I've deleted all but the potential problem statements) :


I hope you didn't feel like I was attacking you or your position...just your approach.

Neither of those statements is in contradiction to my current position or issue. As I mentioned, if this was an issue without a TSP and it was related to the modifications I've made...I wouldn't be pursuing this AT ALL.

[newmoon]

Let us know what your out of pocket expenses are for the Oil Pump replacement. IMO I can understand why the dealer denied your claim, going internal on the engine seems like a valid denial to me.

[Jamie Mac]

My dealership loves when I bring my car in. They are always asking me what I've done to it lately and theres always a group of techs looking under the hood and asking me questions. I mentioned to one of the owners one day that I knew I'd thrown out my warrantee. He said that I'd have to do something really stupid before they wouldn't cover it. He brought up the act and how they would have to prove that it was a direct result of something I had done and from what he knew of my car I shouldn't have any problems getting warrantee work done. He did say that they probably wouldn't cover clutch or axels but thats to be expected.

[TooCool5]

Originally Posted by cab2g

Unfortunately, with something as minor as replacing an oil pump, your legal fees will most likely outweigh the cost to repair. Lawyers run from $150/hr to hundreds or thousands. So good luck keeping any legal action under a few hours.

Something minor should be brought to small claims court, (no lawyers).
Show them the TSB and let the judge rule.

[steeleshark2]

If they fix it, they will just put on another oil pump that may eventually have the same problem. I do not know if I would want that.

[nards444]

Originally Posted by TooCool5

Something minor should be brought to small claims court, (no lawyers).
Show them the TSB and let the judge rule.

probably a little more difficult than that

[SlingShot]

IMO the OP does not have a valid claim. The drive train warranty is a contractual agreement between the manufacture and the consumer. When the car was purchased you were agreeing to the terms of that contract. In that contract it clearly states that any alterations to any of the covered parts, will render the contract voided. You knowingly broke the terms of that contract, therefore making the contract invalid. Recalls and TSB's are also rendered invalid due to the terms of the contract. This same rule applies with all retail purchases.