Z/28 Camaro and C7 Corvette testing at Nurburgring

[backtotintops]

You forgot the viper at 7:12

[Doc]

Originally Posted by brt3

Doc, I hear you. I was tempted to predict a faster time, but I'm not ready to go out on that limb until I have more numbers -- like horsepower and torque.

In 2011 a C6 ZR1 Corvette -- with DOT Competition Tires -- barely broke 7:20 with Jim Mero behind the wheel. That car should be 400 pounds lighter than the Z/28.

I hope you're right, but I'll be stunned if the Z/28 gets below 7:30. Look at the sub-7:36 club -- there are some very heavy hitters there:

7:19.63 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2012) Jim Mero 9 June 2011 General Motors conducted test,[13] base specification car with optional track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure), video confirmed.

7:22.1 Dodge Viper ACR (2009) Tom Coronel, 18 August 2008, Chrysler and Motor Trend conducted test.

7:22.68 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 (2012) Jim Mero, 23 June 2011. General Motors conducted test, base specification car with optional track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure) and Z07 package

7:24 Porsche 911 GT2 RS, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto (11/2010)

7:24.22 Nissan GT-R (2011), Toshio Suzuki, 1 October 2010, Nissan conducted test. Semi-wet conditions. Video confirmed. Best Motoring (12/2010).

7:24.3 Maserati MC12, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:24.44, Pagani Zonda F Clubsport, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:25.7 Ferrari Enzo, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2009), Jim Mero, 27 June 2008. General Motors conducted test, base specification car with stock tires and non-stock safety equipment, video confirmed.

7:26.70 Nissan GT-R (2009), Toshio Suzuki, 23 April 2009, Nissan Motors conducted test with optional tires. Video confirmed. Best Motoring (08/2009).

7:27.82 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport, Marc Basseng, September 2007, Pagani conducted test, semi-wet conditions.

7:28.00 Porsche Carrera GT, Walter Röhrl, 2 July 2004, Porsche conducted test.

7:28.71 Porsche Carrera GT, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test.

7:29.03 Nissan GT-R (2009), Toshio Suzuki, 17 April 2008, Nissan Motors conducted test. The test used a stock GT-R with stock tires. Video confirmed.

7:32.0 Porsche 911 GT2 (2008), Walter Röhrl, 2007. Porsche conducted test, R compound tires used.

7:32.92 Ferrari 458 Italia, Sascha Bert, November 2010, Auto Bild Sportscars (11/2010)

7:33.00 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 997MkII, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto (04/2010), PCCB

7:33.6 Koenigsegg CCX, Marc Basseng, August 2008, Evo Magazine conducted test

7:34 Koenigsegg CCR, Horst von Saurma, 17 October 2005, Sport Auto (03/2006)

7:34 Porsche 911 GT2, September 2008, Porsche conducted test, stock vehicle with stock tires

7:34 Nissan GT-R (2011), Horst von Saurma, October 2010, Sport Auto (11/2010),.[31]

7:35 Ruf Rt 12, Sport Auto (02/2008)[32]

An impressive club to belong in, no question. For this particular car though, it's more than horsepower, torque and vehicle weight. Enough can't be said for what a suspension is able to do with regards to tracking road changes and keeping the tires solidly planted. All the power in the world won't help you if the suspension can't control the wheels. The ZL1 proved how important suspension really is by allowing that car even with its excessive weight, to turn in an amazingly quick time around the Ring.

The Z/28 is at least 300 lbs lighter than the ZL1, it has a new type of shock absorber technology compared to any previous Camaro or Corvette, and it has 11" wide wheels on all corners with a 60 treadwear tire straight from the Pirelli Formula 1 labs. There's custom technology debuting here that hasn't been done on any GM production car yet. Mark Stielow is the kind of guy who can jump into a production car and set a new track record. He's developing this car. All of that is a pretty potent combination.

Even if the power, torque and vehicle weight is comparable to other cars in the category, he's tuning up a superb suspension setup customizing it for these 11" wide sticky tires. This isn't the same as you buying an SS and slapping wide tires on it. This is a GM engineer with the full weight of GM's resources behind him who can get approval for things like thinner custom rear windows, lighter rear seats made out of different material than normal, etc. There's no telling what he's doing with the suspension besides the shocks and tires.

My faith is in Stielow and a killer suspension that can keep wide sticky tires planted even over rough road changes. This is exactly the right combination for popping off a surprise time at the Ring. I have no doubt they'll be in the 7:20's...it's my hope they'll manage a 7:19 but even if they can't, to have a Camaro that can run in the 7:20's on the Ring that you can buy at a Chevy dealer is astounding.

[brt3]

Originally Posted by Doc

An impressive club to belong in, no question. For this particular car though, it's more than horsepower, torque and vehicle weight. Enough can't be said for what a suspension is able to do with regards to tracking road changes and keeping the tires solidly planted. All the power in the world won't help you if the suspension can't control the wheels. The ZL1 proved how important suspension really is by allowing that car even with its excessive weight, to turn in an amazingly quick time around the Ring.

The Z/28 is at least 300 lbs lighter than the ZL1, it has a new type of shock absorber technology compared to any previous Camaro or Corvette, and it has 11" wide wheels on all corners with a 60 treadwear tire straight from the Pirelli Formula 1 labs. There's custom technology debuting here that hasn't been done on any GM production car yet. Mark Stielow is the kind of guy who can jump into a production car and set a new track record. He's developing this car. All of that is a pretty potent combination.

Even if the power, torque and vehicle weight is comparable to other cars in the category, he's tuning up a superb suspension setup customizing it for these 11" wide sticky tires. This isn't the same as you buying an SS and slapping wide tires on it. This is a GM engineer with the full weight of GM's resources behind him who can get approval for things like thinner custom rear windows, lighter rear seats made out of different material than normal, etc. There's no telling what he's doing with the suspension besides the shocks and tires.

My faith is in Stielow and a killer suspension that can keep wide sticky tires planted even over rough road changes. This is exactly the right combination for popping off a surprise time at the Ring. I have no doubt they'll be in the 7:20's...it's my hope they'll manage a 7:19 but even if they can't, to have a Camaro that can run in the 7:20's on the Ring that you can buy at a Chevy dealer is astounding.

I think we'll both be thrilled if you're right on this one. For now, we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, in the sense that we really won't have a better idea until more specs are released.

I agree that the tires, Multimatic shocks, and Carbon Fiber brakes will make the car a Ring-meister -- and that's before we figure the engine into the mix. I've spent roughly 900 miles lapping the Nordschleife, after visiting the track for two summer pilgrimages in a row. I can't pretend to be an expert, as the track is one incredibly difficult mofo to learn. However, the cars I drove there were similar enough to the Z/28 to offer an insight into what works there. Not particularly light cars, in the 3,600 to 4,000 pound range, with big V8 engines, fairly sophisticated suspensions, killer brakes, and excellent tires.

IMHO the tires are critical -- I wore out a set of Dunlop DOT competition tires (60 wear-rating) on my first trip to the Nordschleife, last summer. The custom shocks on that track will be very important to the car's performance -- I can't overstate just how rough the track is, and how brutal some of the transitions can be. If they nail the tuning on the Multimatic shocks, that will give the car a big advantage. However, I actually think the brakes may be the final piece of the puzzle, and may be what pushes this car over the threshold. Not just the stopping power -- though I agree that being able to go lap after lap without brake fade is important. The unsprung weight reduction -- combined with the smaller and lighter wheel/tire package AND the superb control of unsprung mass offered by the Z/28 suspension -- will make the Z/28 lap the Ring as though it's glued to the road.

The Z/28 is exactly what I was looking for. Something you can lap all day, without having to worry about a spike in temperatures or running out of brakes. Other than the fact that I'm guessing you may only get 4-5 track days -- at a track like Laguna Seca -- before the shine goes off the tires, I think this car is going to be a track-day monster. I can't wait -- though I'm anxious about pricing.

Originally I thought I might have Pfadt take a look at the suspension, and get the car to Katech for a little more kick. After reading more details on the car, I think all Pfadt could do would be around anti-roll bars, bushings, etc. -- and though a little more power might be fun, I am waiting to hear where the final specs end up.

Cars like this and the C7 have restored my faith in GM's ability to conceptualize, engineer, and build a product that dyed-in-the-wool car guys would kill for. If you'd told me, five years back, that GM would be building this car in 2014, I would have laughed my ass off. And now it's close enough to reality that I can almost taste it.

Worse than crack, this hobby...

[backtotintops]

all Steilow needs to do now is find this guy, Stefan Roser…"The Chuck Norris of the Ring"…no helmet, no suit, white socks and loafers…he can get the z/28 down to a 7:15!!! Still the best ring video imho…he did an 8:05 with 1987 tire technology.

[brt3]

Originally Posted by backtotintops

all Steilow needs to do now is find this guy, Stefan Roser…"The Chuck Norris of the Ring"…no helmet, no suit, white socks and loafers…he can get the z/28 down to a 7:15!!! Still the best ring video imho…he did an 8:05 with 1987 tire technology.

I've always thought that's the ultimate Ring Vid -- an absolutely amazing drive in a car that was clearly trying to kill him -- but how would Herr Roser be able to handle all of that weight in the front end, along with a rear end that's easily controlled with one's right foot? Might spook him a bit...

[2cnd chance]

The insanity! Talk about NO grip.

Oh, and that is the opposite of a short throw shifter.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by backtotintops

all Steilow needs to do now is find this guy, Stefan Roser…"The Chuck Norris of the Ring"…no helmet, no suit, white socks and loafers…he can get the z/28 down to a 7:15!!! Still the best ring video imho…he did an 8:05 with 1987 tire technology.

Man that is something else. Not even wearing driving gloves. It's like some spectator snuck out on the track and said "Hey look at me, I'm a race driver!" Except he really is insanely skilled and right on the edge of well... insane. That was back in the day when you went fast because you had tons of talent, skill, and a huge pair because there wasn't computer-assisted ANYTHING to help you. In fact the car, the tires and the road were all trying to kill you; it was your job to go fast anyways. Watching him coming out of corners going lock-to-lock-to-lock-to-lock with the steering wheel while still accelerating... man. Nothing like a full lap at a pucker factor of 9+.

[2cnd chance]

It scared me seeing him so close to those bikers.

[Fallout]

That is the most stressed out I have ever been watching a video, god that car is fast.

Originally Posted by backtotintops

it is impressive

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Fallout

That is the most stressed out I have ever been watching a video, god that car is fast.

That car sticks like it's in a video game, but even with all its uber technology the driver still had his hands full. That is one brutal track.

[L99CAMA2011]

That's what it's like when you're driving beyond the limit.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by backtotintops

"What if the 2014 z28 can't produce a better time than the ZL1 at a long track like Nurburgring? It is impossible to match the speed of the ZL1 at Nurburgring, cornering, braking, handling and ride could all favor the ZL1 as well... Remember, the ZL1 is a one lap wonder, but that first lap is usually a very, very fast lap... If the z28 is down 12mph on the 3km straight, it will be hard to beat the ZL1's time... I think that's a 7-8 second loss right there... I'd have to do the math."

guess who wrote that nonsense in another forum???…hint…"make up". When a keyboard jockey uses the word "impossible" that should tell you something


I figured the "lap of the gods" needs to get done around now so these new videos make sense in the timing and can't you just tell the z was eating the 7.

Why do you call the ZL1 a one lap wonder? Most of the reviews said the GT500 had that issue with its brakes.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Why do you call the ZL1 a one lap wonder? Most of the reviews said the GT500 had that issue with its brakes.

He didn't say that, the Pill did.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

He didn't say that, the Pill did.

I'd almost be curious to get his take on Z/28, but I've had enough meds', so...

It sounded to me, that from the reviews that I've seen, ZL1 was pretty thermally stable - at least stock. I do recall some elevated engine oil temperatures, from MT, I think, but they didn't really seem alarmed by it.

I doubt there will be any such issues with Z/28. CF brakes, advanced aero', NA LS7, and all the supporting cooling systems; it imagine it will do quite well.