Drive by wire conversion to Drive by cable? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Stalkker66 · 09-17-2012, 01:16 PM

Hey guys, Just curious if anyone has any input for changing the "drive by wire" to a "drive by cable" system? I perfer the better throttle response of cable. I assume a new TB and possibly pedal?
Does anyone make a full conversion kit?

Thanks guys
Jeff

fastball · 09-17-2012, 01:26 PM

Not many things are impossible depending on how much money you have to spend, but this is. The engine management system/ECM is engineered for drive by wire from the start, there is no such thing as a "conversion" with any car with DBW.

If you were to remove the gas pedal on DBW systems, which has about 10 wires in a harness that plugs into a harness that goes to your ECM, and replace it with one that uses a cable, you will have check engine lights all over the place and an engine that may not even start. The gas pedal in your car now is actually an electronic potentiometer, like a volume knob on modern stereos. As you press your foot down, it takes the input voltage from the ECM and increases it. The difference in voltages is what the ECM uses to increase timing, fuel/air delivery, and everything else.

It's really completely computer controlled. You cannot operate your engine without the DBW gas pedal installed.

robsls3 · 09-17-2012, 01:27 PM

I think you would have to change more than the TB. Probably a few sensors and the ECM to accomodate the cable TB and not a DBW TB. Brackets and such plus a new hole drilled for the cable.

daveagogo1 · 09-17-2012, 01:27 PM

Just get a ported TB and a good tune

Kent2010 · 09-17-2012, 01:47 PM

How do you know that a cable has better response than the electronic?

The reason I ask is that this same question came up over in the C6 forum -- that there was a "lag" induced by the slow response of the electronic throttle system.

The easily-verifiable answer is that the electronic throttle is every bit as fast as any cable. Any "delays" are due NOT to the inability of the ETC to keep up with your foot, but are purposely in the engine's PCM programming. Attempting an old-school Bypassing of those delays without PCM reprogramming is just an (expensive) exercise in frustration.

shaffe · 09-17-2012, 03:07 PM

Not a fan of drive by wire, my way of knowing its slower than a cable system is not very scientific but proved my point to myself.

in my 04 Mustang GT I would cut on average .050-.090 lights. With a best of .009

07 mustang GT with drive by wire .250-350 with a best of around .150

Nessal · 09-17-2012, 03:36 PM

Drive by cable always has better throttle response than drive by wire...however...measureable? That I think has yet to be seen.

Kent2010 · 09-17-2012, 06:54 PM

The method I used to prove to myself was to have the hood of my C6 open, stand in the open drivers door with 1 foot on the gas pedal. From that odd stance, I could see the throttle butterfly open/close as i pumped the gas pedal. (ignition on, but engine not running, of course)

To my eyes, even as fast as I could stomp the gas pedal, it sure LOOKED like the correlated response was as instantaneous as a cable. No perceptible lag between my foot hitting the floor and the throttle plate at wide open.

KMPrenger · 09-17-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveagogo1

Just get a ported TB and a good tune

This.

Majic · 09-17-2012, 07:05 PM

That butterfly lag is programmed in. I don't remember the exact numbers but I think it was .75 sec before it would go to wide open throttle. That is part of the torque management system on the engine side.

MikeSVX · 09-18-2012, 09:50 AM

My fathers Trailblazer SS had a bad throttle delay. A diablo programmer with a tune on it from SLP took care of the problem. He couldn't even tell it was Drive-by-wire after putting the tune in.

nak3dsnake · 09-18-2012, 10:31 AM

Honestly, it would be cheaper to tune out the lag then remove drive by wire. A good tune will respond just as fast as a cable.

strych9 · 09-18-2012, 11:04 AM

It can't be done without completely changing over the electronic engine control. The traction control, etc. is all tied in with thee ECM. In fact, all of the electronic modules on the car are networked together. You can't change anything in that structure without breaking the function of another system.

As for the Mustang guy that couldn't cut his usual light, you simply need to adjust your launch. No different than if you've changed a suspension, driveline, or engine component. Plenty of guys in those cars can cut a quick light. To blame it on the DBW isn't a good defense.

Ringo64 · 09-18-2012, 11:14 AM

Anything with the right time and money is possible but the question is if it's worth it. IMO in this case no

Quote:

Originally Posted by nak3dsnake

Honestly, it would be cheaper to tune out the lag then remove drive by wire. A good tune will respond just as fast as a cable.

THIS.

IMO if it's that big of a deal try the tune, it will be mucho cheaper.

09-17-2012, 01:16 PM	#1
Stalkker66 Drives: 2012 Imperial Blue Metallic Join Date: May 2012 Location: derry nh Posts: 82 View My Garage	Drive by wire conversion to Drive by cable? Hey guys, Just curious if anyone has any input for changing the "drive by wire" to a "drive by cable" system? I perfer the better throttle response of cable. I assume a new TB and possibly pedal? Does anyone make a full conversion kit? Thanks guys Jeff

09-17-2012, 07:05 PM	#10
Majic Majic Drives: 2018 1LT Black...V6 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crestview, Florida Posts: 1,596 View My Garage	That butterfly lag is programmed in. I don't remember the exact numbers but I think it was .75 sec before it would go to wide open throttle. That is part of the torque management system on the engine side. __________________ Rick "MAJIC" 2014 2SS/RS.

09-18-2012, 10:31 AM	#12
nak3dsnake Drives: 2010 Camaro IBM 2LT/RS M6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 2,282 View My Garage	Honestly, it would be cheaper to tune out the lag then remove drive by wire. A good tune will respond just as fast as a cable. __________________ Looks: AAC P13W DRLs, Heritage Grille, RS Embroidered Headrests, GM Door Sill Plates, GM Premium Floor Mats, Body Color Engine Cover, LLT Mobile 1 Oil Cap, ZL1 Sport Pedals, 3M Clear Bra. Performance: Vararam Ram Air Intake, Hurst Short Throw Shifter w/ Hurst Hard Drive Pistol Grip, IDEALG Clutch Master Cylinder, RX Catch can, GTO clutch fluid reservoir, Brembo Brakes, 1LE Track Pack, GMPP Exhaust Upgrade.

09-18-2012, 11:04 AM	#13
strych9 I'll be back... Drives: Subaru, HD Road Glide Special Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 3,036 View My Garage	It can't be done without completely changing over the electronic engine control. The traction control, etc. is all tied in with thee ECM. In fact, all of the electronic modules on the car are networked together. You can't change anything in that structure without breaking the function of another system. As for the Mustang guy that couldn't cut his usual light, you simply need to adjust your launch. No different than if you've changed a suspension, driveline, or engine component. Plenty of guys in those cars can cut a quick light. To blame it on the DBW isn't a good defense. __________________ Bye bye, Bumblebee! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Build Journal My Garage GoPro Mic Hack

09-17-2012, 01:26 PM	#2
fastball Banned Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS 6MT Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 4,372	Not many things are impossible depending on how much money you have to spend, but this is. The engine management system/ECM is engineered for drive by wire from the start, there is no such thing as a "conversion" with any car with DBW. If you were to remove the gas pedal on DBW systems, which has about 10 wires in a harness that plugs into a harness that goes to your ECM, and replace it with one that uses a cable, you will have check engine lights all over the place and an engine that may not even start. The gas pedal in your car now is actually an electronic potentiometer, like a volume knob on modern stereos. As you press your foot down, it takes the input voltage from the ECM and increases it. The difference in voltages is what the ECM uses to increase timing, fuel/air delivery, and everything else. It's really completely computer controlled. You cannot operate your engine without the DBW gas pedal installed.

09-17-2012, 01:27 PM	#3
robsls3 Account Suspended Drives: 2010 camaro 1SS Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oaklawn, IL Posts: 862 View My Garage	I think you would have to change more than the TB. Probably a few sensors and the ECM to accomodate the cable TB and not a DBW TB. Brackets and such plus a new hole drilled for the cable.

09-17-2012, 01:47 PM	#5
Kent2010 Drives: Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 188	How do you know that a cable has better response than the electronic? The reason I ask is that this same question came up over in the C6 forum -- that there was a "lag" induced by the slow response of the electronic throttle system. The easily-verifiable answer is that the electronic throttle is every bit as fast as any cable. Any "delays" are due NOT to the inability of the ETC to keep up with your foot, but are purposely in the engine's PCM programming. Attempting an old-school Bypassing of those delays without PCM reprogramming is just an (expensive) exercise in frustration.

09-17-2012, 03:07 PM	#6
shaffe Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Carol Stream Posts: 6,024	Not a fan of drive by wire, my way of knowing its slower than a cable system is not very scientific but proved my point to myself. in my 04 Mustang GT I would cut on average .050-.090 lights. With a best of .009 07 mustang GT with drive by wire .250-350 with a best of around .150

09-17-2012, 03:36 PM	#7
Nessal Drives: Exige, Miata, Ghia Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: CA, Bay Area Posts: 2,309	Drive by cable always has better throttle response than drive by wire...however...measureable? That I think has yet to be seen.

09-17-2012, 06:54 PM	#8
Kent2010 Drives: Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 188	The method I used to prove to myself was to have the hood of my C6 open, stand in the open drivers door with 1 foot on the gas pedal. From that odd stance, I could see the throttle butterfly open/close as i pumped the gas pedal. (ignition on, but engine not running, of course) To my eyes, even as fast as I could stomp the gas pedal, it sure LOOKED like the correlated response was as instantaneous as a cable. No perceptible lag between my foot hitting the floor and the throttle plate at wide open.

09-18-2012, 09:50 AM	#11
MikeSVX The magic smoke genie.... Drives: Jewels (2010 RJT 1SS) Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Escondido, CA Posts: 2,294	My fathers Trailblazer SS had a bad throttle delay. A diablo programmer with a tune on it from SLP took care of the problem. He couldn't even tell it was Drive-by-wire after putting the tune in.