Best Suspension specific to autocross

[130R]

Originally Posted by TBone

Gentlemen,

SoCalCamaro won't mention this but if you were to look at the AutoX standings for the events he mentioned you would probably find his name near the top, if not at the top, for all of the events he entered. I won't share his real name, ask him, because I do not know if he wants it publicly known. I will say that he has been tracking his car for that last few years in many variations and knows his stuff. Don't doubt, just bask in his knowledge and take it for free because it is worth a whole lot more.



Rant....
Folks, when you are looking for advice on these forums, either from vendors or posters, please use your head. I would sooner take the advice from a vendor who is out there doing it on the track and has a car using the parts they are selling than from one who just talks about it. Same goes for the folks giving advice about tracking or autoX their car. If they haven't been on the track then they have no business giving advice. Okay /rant.

OP, You might also want to ask this question in the Road Course/AutoX section of the boards so you can get some more exposure to the folks into AutoX.
Edit: I see you did, nevermind.

T.

I'd like to add a couple pennies here...

SoCal may be a great engineer as well as a very talented driver, but that's not alway the case. Someone being fast, doesn't mean they are good, or even knowledgable about setting up a car.

Do you think on his own Sebastian Vettel could dial in his car as well as his engineer? Do you think his engineer can drive the car as fast as Vettel?

I only mention this because I went to a local auto-x event and talked to a guy in a Camaro that was posting some very fast and impressive times. I asked him a couple basic questions on his setup, and he told me he didn't have a clue, that someone else set the car up and he trusted what they were doing.

Some people will just be fast in whatever you give them.

A perfect example is Danny Popp driving the Lingenfelter Camaro. He won on Pedders, and he won on RideTech and he'd probably win on Eibach's or KW's or Bilsteins. Is one component better than the other? Or is it more important to have a proper balance of the components you have? Another good question might be: how strong was the competition in the class? Are there only 3 REALLY strong drivers that are always fighting it out? Or are there 10 REALLY strong drivers in the class? In other-words, are your odds of winning really 1 in 3, or 1 in 10?


I couldn't agree more with blindly trusting advice on the internet (Google my sig). My advice is to learn the stuff yourself. There are tons of great books by very talented engineers on suspension theory and setup. There are also great books on driving technique as well as driving schools.

Sadly, most people just want the fast answer, and don't want to take the time to understand what the parts do that they blindly throw at their cars, and more importantly, how those parts work together to make a balanced car, or how to get their car to work with their driving style.

Just because someone is fast with X,Y & Z, doesn't mean that combination will work for 'everyone', or another combination won't be just as fast, or faster…

[So Cal Camaro]

Originally Posted by 130R

I'd like to add a couple pennies here...

SoCal may be a great engineer as well as a very talented driver, but that's not alway the case. Someone being fast, doesn't mean they are good, or even knowledgable about setting up a car.

Do you think on his own Sebastian Vettel could dial in his car as well as his engineer? Do you think his engineer can drive the car as fast as Vettel?

I only mention this because I went to a local auto-x event and talked to a guy in a Camaro that was posting some very fast and impressive times. I asked him a couple basic questions on his setup, and he told me he didn't have a clue, that someone else set the car up and he trusted what they were doing.

Some people will just be fast in whatever you give them.

A perfect example is Danny Popp driving the Lingenfelter Camaro. He won on Pedders, and he won on RideTech and he'd probably win on Eibach's or KW's or Bilsteins. Is one component better than the other? Or is it more important to have a proper balance of the components you have? Another good question might be: how strong was the competition in the class? Are there only 3 REALLY strong drivers that are always fighting it out? Or are there 10 REALLY strong drivers in the class? In other-words, are your odds of winning really 1 in 3, or 1 in 10?


I couldn't agree more with blindly trusting advice on the internet (Google my sig). My advice is to learn the stuff yourself. There are tons of great books by very talented engineers on suspension theory and setup. There are also great books on driving technique as well as driving schools.

Sadly, most people just want the fast answer, and don't want to take the time to understand what the parts do that they blindly throw at their cars, and more importantly, how those parts work together to make a balanced car, or how to get their car to work with their driving style.

Just because someone is fast with X,Y & Z, doesn't mean that combination will work for 'everyone', or another combination won't be just as fast, or faster…

You know, I agree with all your saying here....and it may have been me you talked to at a local autox, because sometimes I do tell people that someone else set it up, just so I don't have to give up any info on my set up.... I've spent over a year and half to get this Camaro where I want it, through trial and error, not giving that knowledge away freely...except for tires...that everyone knows

[Arubberbaby]

I would like some references for these books. Please.

[NotYetLegend]

Sorry OP, wasn't trying to steer your entire thread to car classification or the measurement of individual thread goers knowledge and achievements. I'm a NASA member (they do tons of quality events in my area, not many other groups do so it was an obvious choice). The gen 5 stock is classified as NXB+14. Once you hit 20 points you bump to the next class (NXA in the gen 5's case). This leaves 6 points to play with to stay in NXB, not many at all. I enjoy the type of competition the rules bring as its amazing to watch the solutions some creative people come up with to go fast in their respective class. I'm a bit sensitive to mods for these reasons as going to NXA would also mean going HAM on the bank acct to compete.

My bad really as the thread was for an ultimate (no compromise) solution. Where I'm at class-wise, and bank account-wise..., its just a way of life to run a Frankenstein style car that maximizes you in your class, not an "ultimate" setup by any measure.

That being said you need to consider the adjustability of your selected coilover. Are you the kinda person who is going to take the time to maximize the settings? Or are you just going to waste run after run hunting around your setting space? You may very well be faster just not having the option and learning to drive something consistent. The gen 5 is popular enough, and modded enough, for us to have many great companies to turn to for mod support. Maybe these damn z/28 dampers if available aftermarket would be the ultimate in nonadjustable options? For adjustables you've got options covering almost an entire order of magnitude in cost. Good luck! and do the gen 5 proud *fistpound* #notarealemoji...

[Arubberbaby]

Your fine man. This thread is just a tool I'm using to educate myself.
And so far I'm learning quite a bit

[So Cal Camaro]

Originally Posted by Arubberbaby

Thanks SoCal. I appreciate all the advice.
Ps I've been fb stalking alittle. Lol

No worries, Facebook is mainly a lot of car stuff....road trips...

start here if you haven't already for information on 5th gen set up... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=485

[TBone]

^^Amen!!

T.

[Z Madness]

Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro

I don't run SCCA events, so should clarify that. SCCA is too few runs and too many rules for me...

I run in Pro Touring events like Midwest Muscle Car Challenge, Heidt's Performance Car Challenge, Run to the Coast and Run to the Music City Holley LS Fest and Optima Qualifier Events last year, this year they are Ultimate Street Car Association events...Yes, everything I run in requires a 200TW+ tire.

I have not tried 18", because they mess with the gear ratio's too much, too small a diameter tire. Every alteration causes new issues to deal with, even positive changes can cause unintended consequences. The 19's I ran previously had similar issues with changing shift points and when gears hit the rev limiter.

I hear you. I only AutoX (only thing available) and have 3.73 gearing and have not found the top of second yet at our 35-60 second tight courses so I believe I have some room (gotta do some math). Mostly want the 18's to run the Hoosiers. Only real option in 20's are the R8888, since I don't have the 200 TW restriction.

I assume you do participate in SCCA, just not Autocross/solo?

[TBone]

Pilot Super Sports for everything!!!!

In your rim size go for the Z's size, 305/30/19.


(From Tire Rack's website)

T.

[Novie LE]

If ESP is your goal you really need to read the rules before following any advice in this thread. What is currently done to your car?

[Arubberbaby]

Full bolt ons, tune, sways, subframe connectors, full poly bushings. I'm on Michelin PSS the rest of this year. But I'm doing A6's next spring. And hopefully this winter I can afford full coil overs.

[JDP Motorsports]

I haven't been on the forum much lately but we're always happy to give advise. We have a bunch of packages with proven results. There is a lot of good info in here and SoCal knows his stuff. I'm planning on going to the LS Fest this year but we'll see how everything else pans out.



Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007