Volt concept;; Then & Now

[faninc]

I just read in latest Motor trend that in order to get back the premium you pay for the vol,t over non battery high mileage comparable sized cars, you need to log 200,000 miles. Staying with the Camaro. LOL

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Markal

What is this "Brick" thing with the concept version...thats no brick...I see a lower line and smoother edges...

In this context, brick = extremely un-aerodynamic form. It does not litterally mean that it is a rectangular prism roughly twice as wide as it is tall, and twice as long as it is wide.

As for the rest of your argument. Would you pay for a Volt that looks like the concept but costs twice as much and goes half as far? If you would, you're part of a very select group. Most everyone else would laugh at GM for such a pitiful follow through on the the most advanced hybrid on the market. The Volt isn't meant to be a flashy design statement. It is meant to be an engineering masterpiece. Everyone knows that GM can make great looking cars. But many others need to be convinced of their engineering excellence.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by faninc

I just read in latest Motor trend that in order to get back the premium you pay for the vol,t over non battery high mileage comparable sized cars, you need to log 200,000 miles. Staying with the Camaro. LOL

And if you buy a used Cobalt, the payback time for the Volt gets even longer. And if you just keep fixing your current car, it gets longer still. Whats your point? Everybody knows that buying a new car to save money is a really bad idea, just as bad as buying a new car as investment. New cars cost you tens of thousands of dollars no matter what you do. Wanna save some cash? Buy a thousand dollar hauler and ditch it once it requires a major repair.

[Overflow]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

There, I fixed it.

Overall, I'd say the production version looks a lot like the concept skin grafted onto a Cruze body. I don't have a problem with it ... form follows function, especially in a car where engineers are running the show. Would be interesting to see if GM would ever consider making some sort of small, sporty 2 seater (similar to the Solstice/Sky) and in addition to the conventional powertrian, throw a Voltec powertrain in there too. And give it proportions similar to the 2007 Volt concept.

Thanks!

[Number 3]

Fen and DG have said pretty much everything I would add.

I know a lot of people internally that really thought the show car was hot and were dissapointed when the production car took shape. Of course they didn't lay it on as angrily as Markal. What's up with that? I've never seen so much anger over a car. So Markal are you as angry that the Volt has low rolling resistence tires and sacrifices ultimate handling for FE too? Allmost everything in the Volt was reviewed for it's impact on EV range, including the headlights and radio.

What everyone misses in the Volt discussion is the personal value in not having to use gas. There isn't an alternate mode of transportation that will pay for itself compared to gasoline right now. Yes, you could convert to CNG right now, but good luck getting your 500 psi fill up LOL. For some people it's not a "payback" discussion. If that's all it is for you, then you probably aren't a Volt (or Leaf) customer. But if you want an EV AND you want to eliminate range anxiety, which in clinics is by far the number one, NUMBER ONE, #1 concern with potential customers, the Volt is truly the moon shot, regardless of whether your like the styling.

There are simply two things that drive FE, Aerodynamics and mass. Both have to be reduced so that a smaller, lighter powertrain can be used for propulsion. And due to a 400 plus pound battery, the Volt had to OVER ACHIEVE in the aero department.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

There, I fixed it.

Overall, I'd say the production version looks a lot like the concept skin grafted onto a Cruze body. I don't have a problem with it ... form follows function, especially in a car where engineers are running the show. Would be interesting to see if GM would ever consider making some sort of small, sporty 2 seater (similar to the Solstice/Sky) and in addition to the conventional powertrian, throw a Voltec powertrain in there too. And give it proportions similar to the 2007 Volt concept.

I thought of a great name for the hybrid version ... the Watt. It is a measure of power, perfect for a sports car. The term is commonly associated with electricity, great for a plug in hybrid. It has an obvious marketing campaign, mimicking the classic 'Whose on first' routine:

You got a whaaat?
(hears 'Watt') Yes
Yes?
No, Watt.
What?
Yes

[thespymaster]

I think the reason the major shift from PROTOTYPE to PRODUCTION other than aerodynamics, the PROTOTYPE looks too much like a Camaro...............

[JoeP@TeamBeckyD]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I thought of a great name for the hybrid version ... the Watt. It is a measure of power, perfect for a sports car. The term is commonly associated with electricity, great for a plug in hybrid. It has an obvious marketing campaign, mimicking the classic 'Whose on first' routine:

You got a whaaat?
(hears 'Watt') Yes
Yes?
No, Watt.
What?
Yes

Wut?....

[Markal]

Guys, I'm not mad or angry...I just voice my opinion pretty strongly thats all. Its just my opinion. I'm not a hater. Its just corporate dececption, slight of hand and not living up to expectations that I dislike. The concept car could have been made better without a total rework of the body style....the concept and production model are not the same cars. In the high tech world we live in there will someday be a cool looking, affordable, sporty, battery powered car (yeah, like the Tesla). Not a car that looks like a soccer moms daily driver. Just my opinion....nothing more!

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Markal

Guys, I'm not mad or angry...I just voice my opinion pretty strongly thats all. Its just my opinion. I'm not a hater. Its just corporate dececption, slight of hand and not living up to expectations that I dislike. The concept car could have been made better without a total rework of the body style....the concept and production model are not the same cars. In the high tech world we live in there will someday be a cool looking, affordable, sporty, battery powered car (yeah, like the Tesla). Not a car that looks like a soccer moms daily driver. Just my opinion....nothing more!

What don't you understand about the fact that the concept was a BRICK? Muscle car styling does not equal good aerodynamics, and that translates into a horrible EV. Nothing could have been done to the concept to even make it fathomable for production.

No corporate deception or slight of hand happened here. Just people who don't understand what goes into developing a car.

And Tesla/"affordable" don't go together at all.

[xXSilencerXx]

Originally Posted by faninc

I just read in latest Motor trend that in order to get back the premium you pay for the vol,t over non battery high mileage comparable sized cars, you need to log 200,000 miles. Staying with the Camaro. LOL

That's true of all hybrids. Economically it makes no sense to buy them.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Markal

Guys, I'm not mad or angry...I just voice my opinion pretty strongly thats all. Its just my opinion. I'm not a hater. Its just corporate dececption, slight of hand and not living up to expectations that I dislike. The concept car could have been made better without a total rework of the body style....the concept and production model are not the same cars. In the high tech world we live in there will someday be a cool looking, affordable, sporty, battery powered car (yeah, like the Tesla). Not a car that looks like a soccer moms daily driver. Just my opinion....nothing more!

Got it! You seemed mad about it when I read your post.

Definitely ok to express your opinion and as I said, I know a lot of people inside GM that share your opinion.

Now in truth, the whole concept and show car came about pretty quickly. I'm not sure they had the time to put a show car together that was close to the engineering requirements. I think they just went with what looked good and clearly you agree.

And someday when batteries improve and get higher energy density and weigh much less you will see aero be less important, not unimimportant, just maybe where styling can lead again.

By the way, the reason the Insight, Prius and Volt look so similar in profile is that there really is only one aerodynamic solution that you can actually put people in and drive around. So they are variations on the best solution.

[Markal]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Got it! You seemed mad about it when I read your post.
Definitely ok to express your opinion and as I said, I know a lot of people inside GM that share your opinion.
.........
By the way, the reason the Insight, Prius and Volt look so similar in profile is that there really is only one aerodynamic solution that you can actually put people in and drive around. So they are variations on the best solution.

Then why aren't the Bugatti, McClaren and Aero cars tear drop shaped? I know they are not "Family" cars. They are very fast and more like low wedges. C'mon, GM went the easy and cheapest way for them...the Cruze platform. They want to make money and I don't blame them...well, yes I do. Sometimes you gotta streach out, get radical and take chances...thats the only way to exceed the norm. I know those cars mentioned above are high tech and expensive speedsters for the excentric...still, how many
passengers are in the cars you pass?...most contain only ONE! Auto companies need to design single passenger cars....none, not one major Auto company has designed a car for one passenger. When I drive to work, I don't take my wife and kids with me.... Then why the rear seat? Why the friendly, family look? The 40 mile charge is perfect for commuting to work and back home....again without the family. Just sayin....I know I talk too much.....and am prone to exaggeration....sorry!

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Markal

Then why aren't the Bugatti, McClaren and Aero cars tear drop shaped? I know they are not "Family" cars. They are very fast and more like low wedges. C'mon, GM went the easy and cheapest way for them...the Cruze platform. They want to make money and I don't blame them...well, yes I do. Sometimes you gotta streach out, get radical and take chances...thats the only way to exceed the norm. I know those cars mentioned above are high tech and expensive speedsters for the excentric...still, how many
passengers are in the cars you pass?...most contain only ONE! Auto companies need to design single passenger cars....none, not one major Auto company has designed a car for one passenger. When I drive to work, I don't take my wife and kids with me.... Then why the rear seat? Why the friendly, family look? The 40 mile charge is perfect for commuting to work and back home....again without the family. Just sayin....I know I talk too much.....and am prone to exaggeration....sorry!

GM doesn't even make money off the 1st generation of Volts so your conspiracy theory about GM taking the easy/cheap way out is BS.

And what works for you doesn't work for the majority of Americans. That's something every automotive enthusiast needs to learn.