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View Poll Results: Will the zl1 be the best muscle car ever made | |||
yes | 35 | 20.35% | |
no | 61 | 35.47% | |
the best is yet to come | 65 | 37.79% | |
gt 500 nuff said | 11 | 6.40% | |
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
12-11-2011, 04:24 PM | #15 |
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS SOM; 2015 Malibu LTZ Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 4,021
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If I may.....
This statement by the OP puts us at a bit of a dilemma. The camaro's origin was based on a 2x2 compact that was labeled as a pony car. The original term of "Muscle Car" was defined as an intermediate sized car with a large displacement engine. The subject GM cars (GTO, Chevelle SS396 & 454, Cutlass 442, Skylark GS, GSX; and later iterations of Buick GN, Monte Carlo SS, Grand Prix, and to be literal, the later day Grand Prix GTP, Lumina Z34, Cutlass Supreme International Series, Regal GS; and the last GM forbearers which include the Grand Prix GTP(?) and Monte Carlo SS fwd) were all larger than the camaro. So after all of that hot air, the camaro's concept doesn't fit the true definition of a muscle car. On the other hand, if you don't count Chrysler's Charger 4-door sedan, with the absence of the intermediate class and the increased size of the current camaro, one could argue that the fifth gen is the size of the former muscle car class, and could possibly fit into this description. So the dilemma is: Do you hold the camaro to its true origin as a pony car, or re-define it (due to its increased size) as a midsized muscle car?? Interesting......
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'02 CAMARO SS SOM; 5.7L LS1/FLS6B
'08 TBSS AWD Black Granite Metallic '15 Malibu LTZ 2LZ Turbo '14 CAMARO ZL1 Blue Ray Metallic |
12-11-2011, 05:03 PM | #16 | |
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Status "Thank You!" Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SC
Posts: 2,498
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Quote:
Last edited by htron50; 12-11-2011 at 05:20 PM. |
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12-11-2011, 05:33 PM | #17 | |
Drives: 2002 Nissan Altima Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,048
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Quote:
I am well aware of the history behind the muscle and pony car names, but because of the exact reasons you specify, I have always considered the 5th gen V8 Camaro modern muscle. It's large, it's heavy, and it has a big engine. To me that fits the muscle car category much better than the pony car category, regardless of historical categorations.
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12-11-2011, 07:52 PM | #18 |
Drives: 2002 Z/28,1968 Chevelle convert. Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phila.,PA
Posts: 1,141
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any of you guys from the "era" of the True Muscle Car ??? I'm not sure the ZL1 can be compared to the Original Muscle Car era except maybe in HorsePower terms.... The Muscle Car was a Mid-sized car stuffed with a Big-Block motor, example GTO/Chevelle/GS/Skylark/Cutlass/442.. All the others like the Mustang and Camaro were considered Pony Cars, not Muscle Cars...
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12-11-2011, 08:27 PM | #19 |
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS SOM; 2015 Malibu LTZ Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 4,021
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Posts 16, 17. and 18: That is why I hinted that perhaps we are at a crossroads with the term muscle. Do we take it literally by saying that we're missing the gto, chevelle, gtx, torino cobra and gt, fairlane, Cyclone, and say that the zl1 should take a hike...lol...
Or should we admit that through the years the term muscle has stretched from its definition established at the creation of the GTO, to include the modern day cars like Challenger, Charger and now the Camaro? All three of these cars have grown (literally) to the performance, persona and legendary status of the muscle cars of old. .....and in doing so (Naming zl1 as the pinnacle of Muscle Power)....what becomes of the original legacy of the pony car???? ....getting interesting....
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'02 CAMARO SS SOM; 5.7L LS1/FLS6B
'08 TBSS AWD Black Granite Metallic '15 Malibu LTZ 2LZ Turbo '14 CAMARO ZL1 Blue Ray Metallic |
12-11-2011, 08:32 PM | #20 | |
376 cubic inches of fun
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Quote:
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12-11-2011, 08:33 PM | #21 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 4,812
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Muscle car, pony car ,what ever you want to call them, today's are far better than the old days and weather or not the ZL1 is king is yet to be seen. It's not even out yet. So to me this thread is meaningless.
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12-11-2011, 08:40 PM | #22 |
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will. Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,851
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Well, the ZL1 isn't a muscle car. Muscle cars were just that. Muscle. They had more muscle than the driver. They required muscle< coordination, feel, and experience> to operate. Today's cars are like a living room couch with a remote where you watch HiDef TV. The ZL1 is a modern marvel, a tribute to all that is technolgicaly possible, but not a true muscle car. Those precious species live in a past gone era. Just my 2 cents. As you were.
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12-11-2011, 08:45 PM | #23 | |
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Quote:
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12-11-2011, 10:53 PM | #24 |
Drives: 2017 ZL1 Status "Thank You!" Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SC
Posts: 2,498
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May I add ONE tidbit to what OldScool says.
I MISS THE BIG BUCKET SEATS OF YESTERYEAR. Why they put these dinky small *ss seats in cars is beyond me. They make the consoles almost a friggin foot wide when we could have had wider bigger seats. Who makes a car with Big bucket seats anymore? Who is designing these things. PEOPLE are fatter these days (see the news?) but the seats are 2/3 the size they used to be when on avg folks were smaller. Gimme a seat like in the old Chevelle or GTO and I'd be happy (and very comfy in my new Living Room of the road). |
12-11-2011, 11:51 PM | #25 |
Drives: CTS-V Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: LSD
Posts: 159
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Best ever? Doubtful. Who knows what technology or how much horsepower the future will bring? Awesome car in the modern era and great bang for the buck? Yes. A force to be reckoned with? Absolutely.
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12-12-2011, 12:33 AM | #26 |
Drives: 69 Chevelle SS396 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West
Posts: 700
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With all the perceived constraints on society from the conservationists and knee jerk politicians endorsing the peak oil/earth is melting senario,,,,there is still a huge following for Horsepower powered by oil and until oil ends we are going to see the Pony/Sports car wars continue. It will cost more in the short term but people are smart and the ZL1 in the future will be nothing but a step in the ladder. There will be better Muscle/Pony cars than the ZL1 or GT500 from 2012/13 in the future.
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12-12-2011, 12:44 AM | #27 |
THE CAMARO KING
Drives: 2012 Camaro ZL1 on order #PZSD7S Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Out Somewhere Driving My 'BADZL1'
Posts: 2,284
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Good thread, but totally subjective...
Depending on who you talk to.....
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2012 Camaro ZL1 Car Name: Bruce
ZL1, LSA, MN6/MG9, DSX, RTQ, VR, Current Status: 2030 1000 Initial Order 11/11/2011 Chevyland 1100 Order accepted at dealer: 11/11/2011 - PZSD7S 2000 Order accepted by GM: 12/14/2011 3000 Accepted By Production Control: 00/00/2011 - TPW 00/00/2011 3100 Sequenced: 00/00/2011 3300 Scheduled For Production:0/0/2012 3400 Broadcast: 0/0/2012 3800 Produced: 0/0/2012 4000 Available To Ship: 0/0/2012 4200 Shipped: 0/0/2012 5000 Delivered To The Dealer: 0/0/2012 6000 Delivered To Customer:0/0/2012 |
12-12-2011, 02:17 AM | #28 |
Drives: 2010 SS, 2006 SC Saleen Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 339
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It may be the best up until this point. But I hope cars like this continue to be made...and they continue to improve.
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