Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Roto-Fab
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-21-2009, 11:27 AM   #1
Airaid Filters
 
Airaid Filters's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 251
Air Intake Information for GM's 3.6L V6

The new Camaro direct injection system is advanced. The PCM is capable of identifying sensor readings that are outside of acceptable parameters and will compensate. The ability to compensate for sensor readings will allow the PCM to function with what is assumed to be degrading components. Sensor readings such as Mass Air Sensor frequency are expected to be within a particular range when sampled along with other engine sensors readings to include engine RPM, throttle position, etc. A component or group of components that cause sensor reading to be outside of acceptable range will lead to compensation settings from the PCM. The malfunction indicator lamp can illuminate if sensor readings (or combination of readings) are beyond these acceptable limits.

The PCMs ability to compensate results in restored functionality (or loss of temporary performance gains). Vehicle modifications can result in temporary “improvements” that are later adjusted back to original performance if those modifications result in sensor readings that are outside of the expected parameters. For example, installing an intake system with less restriction (more air flow) and mass air sensor mounting location that does not allow for proper sampling of the additional air flow. This will force the PCM to make necessary adjustments until it receives acceptable readings or combination of sensor readings. These “adjustments” result in original performance levels or an illuminated MIL if requirements are met.

An intake system that is properly designed to provide less restriction (more air flow) while allowing the mass air sensor to sample the incoming air flow accurately (as it did in the original intake) should not result in the PCM re-learning or compensating. The additional air flow resulting from less restriction should be measured from the mass air sensor accurately as the correct frequency reading per volume of air. Additional air flow should continue to be sampled accurately from the mass air sensor until the additional amount of air flow exceeds the functional limits of the mass air sensor or the allowable parameters of the PCM.

An unmodified Camaro will perform better at sea level than it will at 7000 feet elevation. This is due to the more dense air that is available at sea level. The mass air sensor will accurately read the difference in air density and the PCM will process accordingly (not relearn the performance back out) because the other PCM readings and functionality are within allowable limits. A properly modified Camaro will respond the same with additional air flow being measured accurately while maintaining sensor readings that are accurate and within allowable spec of the PCM.

The challenge for aftermarket manufacturers is to develop performance systems that provide added air flow while retaining sensor functionality within their design limits. Our staff of engineers and ASE certified techs utilize our in-house chassis dyno, flow bench, mass air sensor flow bench, rapid prototype equipment and much more to insure our products function and fit as intended. Our success has resulted in the consultation of performance intake systems to OEM manufacturers.
Airaid Filters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 11:36 AM   #2
Xanthos
PWA Relapse
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Formerly-Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,588
Thanks for clearing this up!
- X
__________________

2017 1LT/RS A8 Hyper Blue Metallic

Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 12:04 PM   #3
esperman
You Can Call Me Jay
 
esperman's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1LT RJT Manual w/CAI & Solo
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, KY area
Posts: 1,283
exactly what I suspected all along.
Thats why I went and bought the Airaid.

AND I LOVE the sound & extra torque.
esperman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 12:33 PM   #4
kga10734
Don't Feed the Troll
 
kga10734's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT/RS & 1999 Corvette
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montgomery, TX
Posts: 782
Question about the MAF?

Which way is the proper way to install the MAF in the Airaid system? Does it really matter? After reading the above info by David, it just might make a difference.

I installed the MAF the way it showed in the directions, which is opposite of the way the factory had it.
__________________
kga10734 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 01:01 PM   #5
esperman
You Can Call Me Jay
 
esperman's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1LT RJT Manual w/CAI & Solo
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, KY area
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by kga10734 View Post
Question about the MAF?

Which way is the proper way to install the MAF in the Airaid system? Does it really matter? After reading the above info by David, it just might make a difference.

I installed the MAF the way it showed in the directions, which is opposite of the way the factory had it.
Good question. I didn't pay much attention to that part of the instructions. I just seated it the way it felt the best fit.

No CEL and it's performing very well....so I'm not worried.
esperman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 01:05 PM   #6
faninc
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro RS in SIM
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 557
Airaid, well done and hopefully this dispells some of the fiction that it cannot be accomplished with the V6 PCM! Cannot wait to install mine when it arrives.

best
J
faninc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 01:16 PM   #7
Airaid Filters
 
Airaid Filters's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by kga10734 View Post
Question about the MAF?

Which way is the proper way to install the MAF in the Airaid system? Does it really matter? After reading the above info by David, it just might make a difference.

I installed the MAF the way it showed in the directions, which is opposite of the way the factory had it.
Hello kga10734,

The MAF sensor will only mount in the tube 1 way. If you put it in backwards, the holes do not line up.

any other questions, please let me know.

Thanks,
David
Airaid Filters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 03:06 PM   #8
TJ91
:chevy:
 
TJ91's Avatar
 
Drives: 2LT/RS
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 13,037
thanks for the info David!
TJ91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 03:19 PM   #9
TIE FIGHTR
Cousin of Foo
 
TIE FIGHTR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT RS BLACK/BEIGE
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 624
So your saying a Houston Camaro performs better than a Denver Camaro?

__________________

'I wish I was the full moon shining off a Camaro's hood' ~ Pearl Jam Wishlist
TIE FIGHTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 03:35 PM   #10
trudawg660

 
Drives: 2006 Dodge Charger / 2SS IOM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIE FIGHTR View Post
So your saying a Houston Camaro performs better than a Denver Camaro?

Temp factors also, denver is colder than houston
trudawg660 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 04:49 PM   #11
calflan
 
calflan's Avatar
 
Drives: 1LT; IBM; 6 Spd Manual
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Heath, Tx.
Posts: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by David@Airaid View Post
An intake system that is properly designed to provide less restriction (more air flow) while allowing the mass air sensor to sample the incoming air flow accurately (as it did in the original intake) should not result in the PCM re-learning or compensating.
The additional air flow resulting from less restriction should be measured from the mass air sensor accurately as the correct frequency reading per volume of air. Additional air flow should continue to be sampled accurately from the mass air sensor until the additional amount of air flow exceeds the functional limits of the mass air sensor or the allowable parameters of the PCM.
Dave, so pulling fuses 5 and 20 (reset of power to the ECM) are NOT required it would seem. If there is not an engine light illuminated, the system recognized proper sensing requirments and performance gains are immediately available, would'nt that seem the case ?


Quote:
An unmodified Camaro will perform better at sea level than it will at 7000 feet elevation. This is due to the more dense air that is available at sea level. The mass air sensor will accurately read the difference in air density and the PCM will process accordingly (not relearn the performance back out) because the other PCM readings and functionality are within allowable limits. A properly modified Camaro will respond the same with additional air flow being measured accurately while maintaining sensor readings that are accurate and within allowable spec of the PCM.
This supports Scrming's quiry about mounting the temp sensor outside of the flow tube. If the sensor notes a colder - more dense - ambient temp, the ECU / car performs better.
'Within an allowable spec' does not mean a predetermined power level does it ? In other words, the ECU has a set target torque / power rating and therefore based on sensor inputs, compensations or adjustments will be made to maintain a set performance level ?


Quote:
The challenge for aftermarket manufacturers is to develop performance systems that provide added air flow while retaining sensor functionality within their design limits. Our staff of engineers and ASE certified techs utilize our in-house chassis dyno, flow bench, mass air sensor flow bench, rapid prototype equipment and much more to insure our products function and fit as intended. Our success has resulted in the consultation of performance intake systems to OEM manufacturers.
I agree completely that Airaid's system provides increased air flow, function and fit very well - first hand testimonial, have had the system installed approx. 2 weeks now. Additionally, based on Airaids testing, the system also satisfies required parameters for the ECU sensors, since the ENGINE light does not remain on after installation. But again, is the ECU returning performance to a set level, to maintain a burn level the ECU 'wants' ? May be more a Chevy question than Airaid I suppose.

Dave, thank you for posting. Your attention to customer detail and inquiries only make me more satisfied that I purchased an Airaid system.
__________________
1LT; Airaid CAI; Flowmaster American Thunder Axelback; Int Floor Lts; RS Spoiler; Radio Controls; Sequential tail lights; Oil Catch Can; VMAX Throttle Body; MACE plenum spacer; Mace manifold insulator[/I]
calflan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 05:55 PM   #12
scrming
Red Brick of Vengeance!
 
scrming's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 Second Brick
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: at my pulpit
Posts: 7,745
Good info!

From the Jannetty CAI shootout (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48202)

Here are the results:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...=1&output=html

In regards to fuel trims... Stock was -3%. My understanding is that the ECU is saying "Ok, I calculated the amount of fuel I need based on the MAF, temp, etc. and I am running a bit to rich based on the o2 sensor so I had to subtract some fuel (-3%) to bring my Air Fuel Ratio back to where i want it"

After installing the Airaid the fuel trim goes to +7%, (10% swing). Now the the ECU is saying "Ok... I calculated the amount of fuel I need based on the MAF, temp, etc. and now I'm running to lean. I had to add more fuel (+7%) to bring my A/F back where I want it"

Now my understanding is +7% is not a big deal (some say less than +/- 10% to +/- 20%... So this is some of the part of the ECU that corrects things... There are also long term and short term fuel trims... and my understanding is if the fuel trims get to far apart then you can trigger a CEL.. Say the long term is -5% and all of a sudden the short term fuel trim goes to +25% you probably have a problem! LOL
scrming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 11:25 PM   #13
curtis0407
 
Drives: 2007 MINI Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Posts: 5
Hello everyone... I've been cruising around the sight for about a month now, reading and researching all that is being written about the V6 Camaro in hopes of eventually making a well formed decision when it comes time to lay down some money for one.

That said, I was struck by the following:

Quote:
An unmodified Camaro will perform better at sea level than it will at 7000 feet elevation. This is due to the more dense air that is available at sea level. The mass air sensor will accurately read the difference in air density and the PCM will process accordingly (not relearn the performance back out) because the other PCM readings and functionality are within allowable limits. A properly modified Camaro will respond the same with additional air flow being measured accurately while maintaining sensor readings that are accurate and within allowable spec of the PCM.
Does this mean that an Airaid modified Camaro V6 will perform as well @ 7000 feet as it would at sea level? As you may have guessed - Santa Fe is up at 7000 feet...
curtis0407 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 12:53 AM   #14
HokieERVet
 
HokieERVet's Avatar
 
Drives: SIM/2LT/RS/Black/Manual
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 143
So will relocating the IAT sensor outside of the MAF sensor, as some are doing to get a colder air read, cause any issues with the PCM calculations making it "reset" and prevent gains?
HokieERVet is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AirAid Cold Air Intake anyone? FLYNNZL1 Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 12 01-01-2010 10:05 PM
Why RAM Air is a myth!!! Long Read (Wall of text) live2well Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 80 11-02-2009 04:34 PM
Calling all Vendors with CAI's - PROVE Your CAI Gains! READ JANNETTYRACING Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 618 10-20-2009 12:39 PM
Intake/ Air Cleaner observations and thoughts... (?V6/V8?) radz28 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 27 01-23-2009 09:14 PM
Saturn Sky Red Line GMPP cold air intake question 496BIGBLOCK General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 8 12-29-2008 02:50 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.