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Old 08-14-2010, 01:43 AM   #26
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i drove a friend 05 V6 mustang.the only reason i would consider a newer sang is because well..its conservitive i guess.i liked how the mustang was just easy and calm on the inside unlike how the camaro is just badass...all around .But on a day to day basis idk if i could do a mustang do to its boring apperence on the outside.and the front seat felt weird as SHIT being able to see so much driver side window and front windshield.i felt exposed and naked.
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Old 08-14-2010, 02:11 AM   #27
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i hate the challenger, its way too big. i would take a mustang over a challenger too. and i think this guy is confused with what he wants because to me he is more interested in ergonomics and features than in performance, etc. he should stick with the Beamer if that is the cause because no american car is even close to the quality of a beamer. but i would never have anything else than a chevy for some reason?
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:34 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by philipdistefano View Post
It seems like the Camaro crowd all likes the Challenger and hates the Mustang, and I can't figure out why. I love the Mustang, and I'd probably have one if I didn't have a Camaro.
The Mustang is a little too small for me (don't like rubbing shoulders with the passenger).
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Old 08-14-2010, 12:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Miami_Vice454 View Post
i hate the challenger, its way too big. i would take a mustang over a challenger too. and i think this guy is confused with what he wants because to me he is more interested in ergonomics and features than in performance, etc. he should stick with the Beamer if that is the cause because no american car is even close to the quality of a beamer. but i would never have anything else than a chevy for some reason?
I would take the Mustang over a challenger too, for the same reasons...

btw, its Bimmer. Beamers are BMW motorcycles.
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:00 PM   #30
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I had a 335i prior to my Camaro and I purchased it for these reasons...........
1:I liked it
2:I liked it long enough to wait for the Camaro to be released.
3:great bargaining chip
When it came down to all the creature comforts they were nice but being old school,there is nothing like the rumble of a V8 when you take the pedal to the floor.
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:13 PM   #31
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335I

HA HA, What is so funny about this thread is that I also have a 335i, although mine is an XI and a four door. I will trade mine in on the Z28 if it ever comes out.

I have been toying with just getting a modded SS but I know that I would kick myself for not waiting to see what the Z is going to look/perform like.
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:59 PM   #32
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Before and after.......................
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Old 08-14-2010, 05:39 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
...Given that we buys these cards as fun toys and not just transportation devices I would call this first evaluation a tie....
You sound like me. Because these cars definitely qualify as a "tie".

One car is cool but NOT in your face. the other one, if you go anywhere, you will have the entire city following you around including Cletus the slack jawed Yokel from the Simpsons.

Pick one and stick with it.

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Old 08-14-2010, 07:50 PM   #34
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Turned in my 335i (Part 2)

This is the for now conclusion of my Camaro SS evaluation against the Coyote Mustang.

I wanted to wait until I drove both cars back to back to give my driving impressions.

I started the day driving to visit my aunt who lives on the Mullica River in the '97 WS6. I am reminded of just how much fun this car is driving around with the booming LT1, open T-Tops, and good tunes. By the end of a long day I was glad to get out of it. Another 4th Gen reminder. After comparing all 3 cars together side by side, the '97 WS6 is the most outrageous. It gets a a lot of looks.

A couple of other physical observations.

The top of the door in the SS with seat at mid height is just about the same as the height of the top of the door on the WS6. relative to my shoulder. Yet when you compare the SS and WS6 side by side the top of the door is much higher in the SS. There is the 4th gen sitting in the bath tub feeling. The WS6 seat is much lower than the SS. You do not get that feeling in the SS.

The SS sun visors are useless. I suppose if they were long enough to be useful you would not be able to see out of the side windows with the visors down. They are vestigial much like a penguin's wings. You would think someone at GM would have noticed during the sun visor design phase and rang some alarm bells.

The SS looks taller and wider that the WS6. The WS6 looks badder.

The Mustang is better looking than both of the GM cars but does not have the pizzaz of either. It is roughly the same size and weighs about the same as the WS6. Kudos to Ford for keeping the weight down.

Driving impressions:

I drove the SS on the first day of my search but drove another one today.

The cars:

* 2010 6m Grey 2 SS RS with a roof (no HUD)
* 2011 6m Silver 2 SS RS with a roof and black stripes
* 2011 6m Mustang GT Premium, No Brembo, Shaker 1000, gingerbread package, 19" wheels, and the famous 3.73 gears

Both SSes felt the same driving, not surprising. Did not miss the HUD on the 2010.

The Handlng:

As much as I could evaluate on one short and one longer test drive the Camaro is a first class handler. It did feel a bit ponderous and a bit reluctant to turn in, but remember, I just came from a 335i. After looking at the Pedders web site this behavior is easy to fix. That being said the car felt refined, planted and well under control if a little prone to oversteer. The ride was very smooth and felt very European.

The Mustang felt a little tighter and easier to toss around. The handling and ride was otherwise very similar to the Camaro. Remember this was not a Brembo GT. So I imagine the Brembo is even a little tighter with a rougher ride. But this was a very fair test, standard suspension to standard suspension.

So the standard Mustang just edges out the SS in handling in my view. It might be easy to blame this difference in the 200 pound weight difference but I suspect this is not the true culprit. I think the substandard Camaro suspension bushings and heavy 20" wheels and tires are at fault. Others may know more on this topic. Both were very fun to drive, way beyond my WS6, and both behind my ex 335i.

Power:

Mustang wins this one too, but not by much. That low gearing may have helped get the Mustang off the line with a weaker feeling off idle. Once on the cam the Mustang pulls a little harder. I am sure of the cars I drove the best driver would win. If a driver could clone him or herself and drive both cars at once the Mustang would have an advantage. But of course this is silly. You would not want to clone yourself to test-drive two cars. How would you explain this to your significant other?

So slight speed edge to the Mustang.

One funny thing happened in the Mustang. I made a left at a light and ran through the gears. No one was in front of me as I rounded a bend and all of a sudden the salesman shouted (yes shouted) "Slow it down! Slow it down." Was there an invisible car or traffic light in front of me? Why was he shouting?

There sitting behind a tree on the side of the road was a police car. I checked and I was doing 75 in a 45. Oops! I slowed it down. He did not come after us and then the salesman apologized for shouting. He said the cop left us alone because he could see the sticker in the window and his dealership generates so much tax revenue for the town. Maybe he was right or maybe I was lucky.

At the end of the GT test drive the salesman did something way cool. He had me drive behind this empty building on their car lot .

Then he said "Stop". I did. as instructed.

Then he said "This is our lot and as you can see there is no one back here. Go ahead and see what it can do. But stop before you smash into that row of cars in the back."

Cool! I took the revs up to about 1500 and dropped the clutch while planting my right foot. I did not have the heart to ask to turn the Traction control off so there was no spin as I launched and bogged a little off the line This is the one time I felt the Coyote come on the cam. This s a great motor. I had no comparable experience like this with the 2 SSes i drove. I stopped before the cars with room to spare without hard braking.

Other factors:

Shifting: In the shifting category neither was stellar, the Mustang a bit crisper, but notchier. The SS was a bit mushier but still better than than the WS6 was when it was stock. A tie here. Both shifters are usable, but if I were to go to the track both would need replacing.

Engine Sounds: The SS was the clear winner here for me. Both cars were a little too quiet. I did not like the sucking sounds of the GT sound tube and the exhaust sounded a bit blatty/puffy when you passed 4K. I have also heard sound clips on the web of the GT with aftermarket exhaust. My old 302 Mustang sounded better to my ears. The SS was too quiet but was pure LSx. Maybe I like this better because my LS1 Camaro was one of my favorite cars. In any event as far as engine sound goes stock my opinion is:

1. LT1 (My WS6 is not stock exhaust and sets off car alarms, what power!)
2. Old 302 Ford
3. LS3
4. New 302

Braking: Since I did not want any salesman to soil their pants on my watch (again) I did not perform any extreme braking tests. But the Mustang's optional Brembo package is equal to the standard Camaro brakes. Both sets of brakes seemed easy to modulate and powerful. The winner is Chevy here for making the good brakes standard.

Driving Intangibles: I loved driving both cars. Many have complained about the SS steering wheel and the bigness of it. I did not get a sense of that. I liked he Mustang interior better on the second day of comparing. The SS interior grew on me as well. Both had more electronics than I could mess around with on these quick test drives. As long as i get Ipod control either would be fine. Still I am wondering about the advantages of Sync. Being a software engineer I like tech. Onstar was cool in the SS. Although the plans seem expensive. The Onstar NAV directions was ok, but it nice to have that visual in front of you. I like the satellite unlocking feature. Over all though, and I cannot put my finger on exactly why, but I liked driving the Camaro a little better.

List Price with my preferences:

* SS (2011 price): $37,745 2SS, RS, Sunroof, Interior accent pack
* But I would add: $39,065 Stripes, Hurst shifter, and polished wheels

* Mustang (2011 with SS level options): $39,295 with GT Premium, Comfort, Brembo, Hids, Security, glass roof, premier trim
* But I would add More: $41,875 adding Electronics, and backup camara,

I want a black car with red/orange interior. On the mustang I would like no stripes and on the SS Orange stripes

So according to my tastes I would save a little money buying the SS.

My conclusion (as of day 2)

The Mustang is a great car. But I liked the Camaro better. I liked having the sunroof. I like the idea of IRS but in my test drives I did not feel the advantage. I can mod the Camaro quite easily to more than erase the Mustang's sporting advantages and have a sunroof.

One thing was weird, the Chevy lot had about 15 Camaros and they were hardly dealing at all, even on the 2010s. But they did offer me $6,500 for the WS6. At the ford place ordering a car was all we discussed. The 5.0s are selling like hotcakes. That would be under Xplan at Ford which is very close to inovice. The company I work for is a partner with GM and Ford so I would hope if I ordered a Camaro I could get one close to invoice. Maybe I just have to find the right dealer.

Thanks for reading.

Last edited by Fraxum; 08-14-2010 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:11 PM   #35
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
This is the for now conclusion of my Camaro SS evaluation against the Coyote Mustang.

The Mustang is a great car. But I liked the Camaro better. I liked having the sunroof. I like the idea of IRS but in my test drives I did not feel the advantage. I can mod the Camaro quite easily to more than erase the Mustang's sporting advantages and have a sunroof.

One thing was weird, the Chevy lot had about 15 Camaros and they were hardly dealing at all, even on the 2010s. But they did offer me $6,500 for the WS6. At the ford place ordering a car was all we discussed. The 5.0s are selling like hotcakes. That would be under Xplan at Ford which is very close to novice. The company I work for is a partner with GM and Ford so I would hope if I ordered a Camaro I could get one close to invoice. Maybe I just have to find the right dealer.

Thanks for reading.
Good review. Cars are pretty similar, get the one that turns u on.... I get most of my cars on the xplan, that pricing is hard to beat even when you are a good haggler...
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:41 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipdistefano View Post
It seems like the Camaro crowd all likes the Challenger and hates the Mustang, and I can't figure out why. I love the Mustang, and I'd probably have one if I didn't have a Camaro.
I think much of the hate is the result of years of Mustang/Camaro rivalry. You get the same thing about Camaros on the Mustang forums.

If you like muscle cars I cannot see how you can hate either one. But of course you might like one over the other. I can see how you can hate an Aveo however.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:50 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami_Vice454 View Post
i hate the challenger, its way too big. i would take a mustang over a challenger too. and i think this guy is confused with what he wants because to me he is more interested in ergonomics and features than in performance, etc. he should stick with the Beamer if that is the cause because no american car is even close to the quality of a beamer. but i would never have anything else than a chevy for some reason?
You are right. I am confused because both cars are so good. When I leased the BMW there were not very good choices for me among V8 rear drive cars. Now three years later there are!

I have owned:
351 Falcon
340 Duster
Old school GTO
2 Mustang GTs
LT1 Camaro
LS1 Camaro
LTI Firebird

So far i have owned only 2 german cars, the 335i and a Jetta.

I liked the BMW but found it a little boring. But it too is a great car. However V8s are for me.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:23 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohten View Post
I had a 335i prior to my Camaro and I purchased it for these reasons...........
1:I liked it
2:I liked it long enough to wait for the Camaro to be released.
3:great bargaining chip
When it came down to all the creature comforts they were nice but being old school,there is nothing like the rumble of a V8 when you take the pedal to the floor.
+1
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Old 08-15-2010, 06:36 AM   #40
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I would have NEVER guessed this:



My numbers would look like this:

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75

Add the Challenger into the mix...

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75
* Challenger exterior appearance: 8.70

I personally think the Mustang is hideous and would buy a Challenger long before even considering the Stang...
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:02 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raqball View Post
I would have NEVER guessed this:



My numbers would look like this:

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75

Add the Challenger into the mix...

* Mustang exterior appearance: 6.00
* Camaro exterior appearance: 8.75
* Challenger exterior appearance: 8.70

I personally think the Mustang is hideous and would buy a Challenger long before even considering the Stang...
Not a huge fan of the Mustang exterior, ye it's retro but I was never a huge fan of the 65-67 origional stang look so hence not totally digging the new retro look. If I didn't have a choice of Camaro and Challenger then maybe I would consider driving a stang but luckily we have the Camaro.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:11 AM   #42
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Interesting that you have a G8. The third car on my list is a G8 GXP 6M with the roof. Very hard to find within 1,000 miles of my house. I like 4 doors and wish you could buy a 4 door Camaro.
The G8 is a great car, but like you said they are pretty rare. You would almost certainly have to look for a used one these days since they're not made anymore. I would have gotten a V8 if they didn't close down pontiac and I could've waited another year or two before buying one, but funds only allowed for a V6. Regardless I love it.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:29 AM   #43
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Fraxum, I have a very good idea what you are going through here. I too just turned in a BMW, and I too just compared the 2011 Mustang to the 2011 Camaro.

My BMW was the 328i (although I've driven the 335i several times).

In both cars you are going to notice the lower quality interior materials. No slabs of wood, and more expensive looking plastics and rubber. But then both the cars you are looking at start at $23K, and the 3 series starts at $10K more.

Ultimately I couldn't get excited about the Mustang. It's just so common. The interior lacks the character of the Camaro. It is lighter on its feet, but I love the quiet cruising you get from the heavier Camaro; and it still works well if you chuck it around the bends.

I certainly will tell you that despite being spoiled by BMW handling, the Camaro comes close, and in my opinion it absorbs every day rough road surfaces better.

The stereo on the Camaro isn't as good as the upgraded BMW one, but is better than the one that comes on the 328i. But unlike the BMW, it can work well with the iPod or a memory stick. I've yet to even put a CD in the player.

The Camaro is a real looker. I've had comments on it every day. Even the cop who pulled me over for speeding told be it was a beautiful car, and shook my hand! Gave me a warning, not a ticket.

When you first get it, you will notice the lack of visibility compared to the BMW, but you quickly get used to that. It's rarely an issue for me any more.

You'll probably miss the dual zone auto climate control. It's manual on these cars. You'll probably enjoy the HUD. I think the V8 has a far more interesting noise than the 335i. But makes less road noise than those crappy run flat tires.

I got a loaded V6 for $30K. The equivalent, BMW would cost me $40K and would still be missing some features of the Camaro. What's more, I'd have to pay even more to come close the the horse power, probably closer to $50K.

For me, I won't get another BMW until the next generation. The 3 series, while a great car, is lacking some of the standard technology of cars like the Camaro or even Mustang.

I'm still enjoying the newness of my Camaro, and just went on my first longer drive. I don't regret this choice for a moment. If I really search hard I sometimes wonder how it would be if I'd gotten a yellow one (for example), but I never think about how it would be better if I'd gone with the Mustang. Owning this car makes me more sure than ever that I would have hated the Mustang.
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Old 08-15-2010, 06:53 PM   #44
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you should probably go buy a mustang because u rated the camaro higher in only cool factor. cool factor will wear off after awhile and then you will be sick of the car. buy a mustang.
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:05 PM   #45
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Quote:
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Fraxum, I have a very good idea what you are going through here. I too just turned in a BMW, and I too just compared the 2011 Mustang to the 2011 Camaro.

My BMW was the 328i (although I've driven the 335i several times).

In both cars you are going to notice the lower quality interior materials. No slabs of wood, and more expensive looking plastics and rubber. But then both the cars you are looking at start at $23K, and the 3 series starts at $10K more.

Ultimately I couldn't get excited about the Mustang. It's just so common. The interior lacks the character of the Camaro. It is lighter on its feet, but I love the quiet cruising you get from the heavier Camaro; and it still works well if you chuck it around the bends.

I certainly will tell you that despite being spoiled by BMW handling, the Camaro comes close, and in my opinion it absorbs every day rough road surfaces better.

The stereo on the Camaro isn't as good as the upgraded BMW one, but is better than the one that comes on the 328i. But unlike the BMW, it can work well with the iPod or a memory stick. I've yet to even put a CD in the player.

The Camaro is a real looker. I've had comments on it every day. Even the cop who pulled me over for speeding told be it was a beautiful car, and shook my hand! Gave me a warning, not a ticket.

When you first get it, you will notice the lack of visibility compared to the BMW, but you quickly get used to that. It's rarely an issue for me any more.

You'll probably miss the dual zone auto climate control. It's manual on these cars. You'll probably enjoy the HUD. I think the V8 has a far more interesting noise than the 335i. But makes less road noise than those crappy run flat tires.

I got a loaded V6 for $30K. The equivalent, BMW would cost me $40K and would still be missing some features of the Camaro. What's more, I'd have to pay even more to come close the the horse power, probably closer to $50K.

For me, I won't get another BMW until the next generation. The 3 series, while a great car, is lacking some of the standard technology of cars like the Camaro or even Mustang.

I'm still enjoying the newness of my Camaro, and just went on my first longer drive. I don't regret this choice for a moment. If I really search hard I sometimes wonder how it would be if I'd gotten a yellow one (for example), but I never think about how it would be better if I'd gone with the Mustang. Owning this car makes me more sure than ever that I would have hated the Mustang.
Thanks! Good feedback for me. I do like the Mustang, the 2011 is much improved over the older ones. But i did get a better feeling driving the Camaro.
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:19 PM   #46
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you should probably go buy a mustang because u rated the camaro higher in only cool factor. cool factor will wear off after awhile and then you will be sick of the car. buy a mustang.
The Mustang was only slightly better in acceleration, tossability, and interior materials. I know I can fix the first two (I enjoy modding) and the third is not a big deal. And since I cannot help myself when I order a car I get ALL the regular options I can save a little buying the Camaro. I also get a sun roof and IRS.

But I agree with you about the wow factor wearing off. Like I noticed driving my WS6 around this weekend. In 1996-97 this was THE car for me. Now my tastes have changed.

I have more time to think about this since I have not sold my WS6 yet. But if i were buying today it would be a Black/Orange 2SS RS 6M. Tomorrow I may feel different.

I just hope I can find a Chevy dealer who will actually deal. I am not paying list. Or that will push me back to the Mustang for sure. My real problem is that I know I would be happy with either car.
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:49 PM   #47
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How does acceleration compare in the SS vs th 335?
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:20 PM   #48
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Sounds like to me by reading your post you prefer the Mustang over the Camaro anyway so why don't you just go get one and be happy with it. If you ask a bunch of Camaro owners on a Camaro site, I'd be willing to bet that most of them will tell you to by the Camaro don't you think.

I like the looks of the Challenger and my wifes likes the looks of the Challenger over the Camaro, but it didn't convince me to get one. I got the Camaro and I'm on a Camaro forum. I'm sorry but it seems as of late I have come across a few people on here that post up this same type of story about how they want or got a Mustang over the Camaro. Or how they got rid of there new Camaro and got a new Mustang. Fine, no big deal. It's your money and your choice, so you have to make it. If you chose a car over the Camaro that's OK with me, but then why do those same people still hang out on a Camaro forum? Just curious.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:58 PM   #49
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Thumbs down disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
Yes, sort of. But the cool factor kicked in for me. Notice the high rating I gave that aspect. The other thing I did not mention is you see so many more Mustangs. The Camaro is more unique. However I still am not sure it is better looking than the Mustang.

One of the things the Mustang does is connect me with cars I cut my teeth on. The Camaro not so much. I do not see much 1969 Camaro there. But I like new stuff so that is not a problem for me. As to the interiors both were going retro and neither pulled it off for me.

However I still am not sure it is better looking than the Mustang.


WHAT?


WHATTTTTTTTT??????
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:07 AM   #50
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buy one already.
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