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Old 11-26-2008, 07:46 PM   #1
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Camaro 'Muscle car' shows weak planning, NDP says

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Ontario politicians tell Detroit automakers to get their act together if they want more aid

Nov 25, 2008 04:30 AM
Rob Ferguson
Queen's Park Bureau

The making of a new generation Camaro "muscle car" at General Motors in Oshawa – with Ontario government help – shows why Premier Dalton McGuinty must be careful with any bailout aid to the troubled Detroit Three, says NDP Leader Howard Hampton.

"Camaro sort of stands out as where this government went wrong ... Camaro production is exactly the kind of muscle car people aren't interested in buying," Hampton said yesterday as debate continued to swirl over how much assistance the Ontario government might provide and under what conditions.

"It's exactly where the market isn't going. So I think it's an example of what not to do. Governments should be saying, `Look, we want the products of the future. We want hybrids manufactured here. We want a guarantee.'"

Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan confirmed that aid to the automakers, struggling with a sharp drop in sales because of the global economic slump and a gasoline price surge earlier this year, could cause a "spike" in the province's projected $500 million deficit for this year.

His remarks echoed weekend comments from Premier Dalton McGuinty that the province's red ink could "dramatically balloon" with auto aid.

Duncan wouldn't comment on the Camaro directly but said he is aware of public concerns about bailouts to GM, Ford and Chrysler, whose U.S. chief executives he slammed for taking private jets to plead for cash from the U.S. government in Washington last week.

"These guys have to present a plan. And they've got to be smart about it. And taxpayers are quite properly going to demand accountability," added Duncan, who said the government decision would be based on product lines and future plans.

"It's not simply a matter of writing a blank cheque ... We have to understand what the future of the industry is going to be."

The Camaro, being built with part of $175 million in Ontario government loans to GM three years ago, is in "early build" stage at the Oshawa car assembly plant as GM ramps up production, aiming to have the cars in showrooms by the end of March, said GM spokesperson Patty Faith.

Prices will start at $26,995 for V6-models, which are expected to use nine litres of fuel per 100 kilometres on the highway, compared with 5.4 litres per 100 kilometres for the Honda Civic.

Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory said the Detroit Three have to prove they are "developing products that people are going to buy" but said government should not be getting involved to the point that it is dictating which models are made and which are not.

"The companies have to make their own business decision," he told a news conference.


http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/542846
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:47 PM   #2
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Quote:
"Camaro sort of stands out as where this government went wrong ... Camaro production is exactly the kind of muscle car people aren't interested in buying,"
i'm sure interested in it!! what other kind would i buy?
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:48 PM   #3
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Oh for the love of Christ...

Not everyone wants a stupid civic. The Camaro is VERY economical for a 300 HP car.

Sometimes I'm glad we don't have people like this running our car companies...every car would get 50 MPG, but out of a 70 HP 3 cylinder engine or something.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
"Camaro sort of stands out as where this government went wrong ... Camaro production is exactly the kind of muscle car people aren't interested in buying,"
Apparently, there are at least 7800 people who are interested. And that's 3 months before the thing actually comes out.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:01 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
Oh for the love of Christ...

Not everyone wants a stupid civic. The Camaro is VERY economical for a 300 HP car.

Sometimes I'm glad we don't have people like this running our car companies...every car would get 50 MPG, but out of a 70 HP 3 cylinder engine or something.
Exactly, I hate it when communist/socialist people want to dictate what I can and can't buy and what I should be forced to buy because what I want is killed off...
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:03 PM   #6
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Don't ever take anything from the NDP seriously. They are an extreme left wing liberal party. They want everyone to drive a Prius and believe welfare recipients should be paid minimum wage.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:06 PM   #7
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Exactly, I hate it when communist/socialist people want to dictate what I can and can't buy and what I should be forced to buy because what I want is killed off...
Hmm...looks like our government's doing that exact thing with a little thing called CAFE...

There were plans for an all-new RWD Impala...whoops, CAFE strikes again...
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
Oh for the love of Christ...

Not everyone wants a stupid civic. The Camaro is VERY economical for a 300 HP car.

Sometimes I'm glad we don't have people like this running our car companies...every car would get 50 MPG, but out of a 70 HP 3 cylinder engine or something.
That's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camaropete View Post
Apparently, there are at least 7800 people who are interested. And that's 3 months before the thing actually comes out.
Right you are Pete. This car has generated more buzz than any in memory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
Exactly, I hate it when communist/socialist people want to dictate what I can and can't buy and what I should be forced to buy because what I want is killed off...
We must demand fun-to-drive cars as well as Chevy Volts. The Volt will actually help us by lowering gasoline demand, and therefore holding today's or lowering gas prices.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:11 PM   #9
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Lets see....so the politicians in Canada think they know what the manufacturer should build and sell. Do they want a say in the design of the car too? And the color?

Personally...I don't know of ANYBODY who has bought a hybrid, or wants to buy one. So where is he finding all these imaginary customers at? And the Malibus are stacked up at the dealer lots all over the country here in the US.

Someone better tell him that it does'nt matter what you are building right now..few vehicles are selling. But Canada seems to have more than its share of Toyotas and Hondas on the roads whenever I'm there anyway. Hes lucky to have GM spending money in his country building cars and employing his citizens. He does'nt seem to understand that these cars are being built for people in countries other than his own. Its called a "global economy".

And he should also know that GM can't build enough of the $100,000 Corvette ZR-1 cars right now. Dealers are getting $20,000 over MSRP for them and orders are backed up for months with customers not being able to get a build date for them. I'm sure he feels that these cars should not be built either because they don't suit his personal tastes.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:13 PM   #10
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BULL...What is NDP and who is that dipstick?

Sounds like he's trying to kiss obamas buttocks
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:18 PM   #11
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And again I say F--- YOU to the banks, mortgage lenders, and profiteers on Wall Street who didn't have to prove a THING to get the first surge of bailout money...which promptly got shipped overseas and did nothing for the economy.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:22 PM   #12
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I say what is wrong with this world ....where a Camaro is not desired. It would be a dull, dull world indeed.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:25 PM   #13
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:38 PM   #14
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a world where the Camaro is not wanted? like seriously, are they kidding?
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:53 PM   #15
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Sounds to me like we need to move the Camaro production facility to the USA where it might be more welcome.

-Mark.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:54 PM   #16
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This article is just what I needed tonight....a GOOD LAUGH!!!

What's wrong with 26.1 mpg?? Oh, the NDP is an extreme left wing liberal party....well that explains it. The Canucks too have to deal with the Green/CAFE mentality just like us red-blooded American muscle boys. Too bad!


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Old 11-26-2008, 09:02 PM   #17
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wow, what a moron. These muscle cars are as much a part of America as baseball and apple pie.

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Old 11-26-2008, 09:11 PM   #18
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:21 PM   #19
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Some people are just incredibly stupid.
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:44 PM   #20
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This politician simply doesn't realize the Camaro is the only reason the Oshawa car plant is still operational. I'm sure any employees there will be happy to let him know this fact as soon as they hear about these statements. Come on, it's a loan people, they're planning to pay it back.
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:45 PM   #21
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I can't wait to see these hating assholes eat crow
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:38 PM   #22
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Oh my God -- What was I thinking ???????????


I am going to cancel my Camaro order tomorrow and place my order for my awe inspiring, exilerating, pure adrenaline rush civic.

Rob Ferguson and his cult are a bunch of ass clowns.
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:48 PM   #23
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I wish everyone got to request to bitch slap 1 idiot a year... Thats why I say we need to produce our products here in america (but then Id have to slap that UAW guy as well)
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:56 PM   #24
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With the Camaro being one of the most anticipated cars still, and it being unveiled almost3 years ago, it just goes to show how much research this moron did to make a statement like that.

Poor guy, so uninformed... its too bad that GM has to deal with this situation.
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:54 AM   #25
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NDP, enough said!!!
The New Democratic Party up here in Canada is like that annoying co-worker that is always telling you what you are doing wrong and give you these ridiculous ideas for solving the problem. You want to punch them out but you can't because that would be against the companies ethics policy so you just deal with them and ignore everything they say. They have all these flowery ideas of cars that run a million mpg that only exhaust fluffy bunny rabbits and rainbows.
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