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Old 01-19-2008, 12:27 AM   #101
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Price Gouging exists...and there is no excuse for it. I don't like to think about why people pay so much above MSRP, otherwise respected as what the car is worth (nevermind how much people feel it's worth...) because I go all cross-eyed, and develop slurred speech for a time.........
1-2k dollars, okay; maybe - But 20k+ over MSRP for a Challenger, c'mon!?!

And as for your Corolla statement....um, I could sworn that was due to inflation...you know - the decrease in relative value of the dollar, which in turn, drives up the prices of everything. But - if it's really true that we've all just decided to pay 10's of thousands of dollars more for a car over the years. I wanna see the agreement I signed, because I wouldn't have agreed to that - I'd love a new car for $1500!

I'm not trying to rip on you - maybe I just read your post wrong.
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Old 01-19-2008, 12:46 AM   #102
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Price gouging doesn't exist, because by definition there can be no alternative. Well there are many many many Chevy dealerships in the US (not the mention the world) and beyond that many many many many many competing products. So if people pay over MSRP, that is their choice, and if dealers accept that money, well why not? Mark ups over MSRP can exist only when demand exceeds supply. Under such a situation MSRP pricing does not provide a proper rationing mechanism. So the dealers must choose another rationing mechanism. They could do "first come, first serve" but then they are not making the full economic gain that the market allows. Very inefficient.

The other option is markups. So suppose there are 5000 people who are after 4000 cars at an MSRP of $30,000. 1000 of those customers are willing to pay $40,000. So they pay $40,000 and get the first 1000 Camaros. Now the dealer has 3000 cars at $40,000 but no customers willing to pay that price. So the dealer drops the price to $35,000. Now 2000 more customers are willing to pay that price to get cars. So now we're down to 1000 cars and no additional customers willing to pay that price. There are 2,000 customers who are willing to pay a lower price. 1000 of those customers are willing to pay $31,000. The other 1000 customers aren't willing to pay that price, so they go elsewhere. So the dealership gets rid of the last cars. The product has been rationed so demand perfectly matches supply. The dealer makes maximum profit, and no one paid more than they were willing.

So where's the problem? What's immoral about that? There is certainly nothing illegal or deceptive about it?

MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. It doesn't mean the fair price for the vehicle. It doesn't mean what the vehicle is worth. It is just a number provided as a guideline to start building market price off of. It is just the manufacturer's best guestimate of a price that will give dealers a decent profit and what the market as a whole is likely willing to pay for the car.
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Old 01-19-2008, 01:04 AM   #103
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Price gouging doesn't exist, because by definition there can be no alternative. Well there are many many many Chevy dealerships in the US (not the mention the world) and beyond that many many many many many competing products. So if people pay over MSRP, that is their choice, and if dealers accept that money, well why not? Mark ups over MSRP can exist only when demand exceeds supply. Under such a situation MSRP pricing does not provide a proper rationing mechanism. So the dealers must choose another rationing mechanism. They could do "first come, first serve" but then they are not making the full economic gain that the market allows. Very inefficient.

The other option is markups. So suppose there are 5000 people who are after 4000 cars at an MSRP of $30,000. 1000 of those customers are willing to pay $40,000. So they pay $40,000 and get the first 1000 Camaros. Now the dealer has 3000 cars at $40,000 but no customers willing to pay that price. So the dealer drops the price to $35,000. Now 2000 more customers are willing to pay that price to get cars. So now we're down to 1000 cars and no additional customers willing to pay that price. There are 2,000 customers who are willing to pay a lower price. 1000 of those customers are willing to pay $31,000. The other 1000 customers aren't willing to pay that price, so they go elsewhere. So the dealership gets rid of the last cars. The product has been rationed so demand perfectly matches supply. The dealer makes maximum profit, and no one paid more than they were willing.

So where's the problem? What's immoral about that? There is certainly nothing illegal or deceptive about it?

MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. It doesn't mean the fair price for the vehicle. It doesn't mean what the vehicle is worth. It is just a number provided as a guideline to start building market price off of. It is just the manufacturer's best guestimate of a price that will give dealers a decent profit and what the market as a whole is likely willing to pay for the car.
BLAH BLAH BLAH... We know, we know... In laymanís terms it's still price gouging. :raises hand: can I go to the bathroom now Professor stovt001???
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Old 01-19-2008, 01:10 AM   #104
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^And if you've searched and searched and searched, but still can't find a dealer willing to sell at MSRP (Say all are 5K over MSRP)? Since we are going by definition, there would not be an alternative (to purchase at MSRP) and the dealers selling at thousands over MSRP would be "price gouging."

Could this be possible? I mean, could it?...that you possibly couldn't find a dealer selling at less than 5K over invoice?

This, FOR FACT, could be a possibility (not likely to happen, though). But, if it did....PRICE GOUGING.

Realistically, I see what you are saying (about selling them off in decreasing prices). But, if you wanted to get into GT500 and the sales guy said, "Fork over $50K...PLUS another 20K on top of that and it'll be yours!"...with that "I'm gonna screw you out of 20K because I can" smile. C'mon. You don't think this guy is screwing you? You don't think that's price gouging? Sure, you might have the 50K to pay MSRP, but ...you ain't gonna be getting into one of those!!! Don't recall anyone selling them at MSRP as an alternative.
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Old 01-19-2008, 11:48 AM   #105
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^And if you've searched and searched and searched, but still can't find a dealer willing to sell at MSRP (Say all are 5K over MSRP)? Since we are going by definition, there would not be an alternative (to purchase at MSRP) and the dealers selling at thousands over MSRP would be "price gouging."

Could this be possible? I mean, could it?...that you possibly couldn't find a dealer selling at less than 5K over invoice?

This, FOR FACT, could be a possibility (not likely to happen, though). But, if it did....PRICE GOUGING.

Realistically, I see what you are saying (about selling them off in decreasing prices). But, if you wanted to get into GT500 and the sales guy said, "Fork over $50K...PLUS another 20K on top of that and it'll be yours!"...with that "I'm gonna screw you out of 20K because I can" smile. C'mon. You don't think this guy is screwing you? You don't think that's price gouging? Sure, you might have the 50K to pay MSRP, but ...you ain't gonna be getting into one of those!!! Don't recall anyone selling them at MSRP as an alternative.
His point though is you DON'T NEED a gt500, its a luxury item. You can go get a GT and replace the bottom end and throw on a blower and have the SAME thing for less $$. Your paying extra for the Shelby name.

That said, thats why the GT500 and the first year Challenger are limited production. It creates HIGH desirability with low supply which = high prices. We wont have that problem with the camaro so FEW if ANY dealers will be able to get away with large markups for more than 2-3 months (when supply over takes demand).

With the camaro, don't worry, chances are you wont have to pay a markup unless your first in line at your dealer and he's the type to squeeze that extra money. And I always chalk that up to the "I gotta be first" syndrome.
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Old 01-19-2008, 01:02 PM   #106
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I was talking with my uncle about how I have to get this car and I am so excited. Well he tells me that it is going to be too expensive, he has a couple friends that went down to the local dealership and put their $1000 down payment on a $56k Camaro. I sure hope that's not going to be even close to the price for a V8(base model if more than 1). If so I am gonna ride my Saturn to 200k miles and drive off into the sunset. Somebody please tell me this is a crock.
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Old 01-19-2008, 02:43 PM   #107
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Somebody please tell me this is a crock.
Its crock, the base v6 and base v8 will have to compete with the mustang price tag. That being said, i WONT say that a 56k camaro is imposible.. but it will be a special limited production. Not a normal mass produced version.
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Old 01-19-2008, 04:17 PM   #108
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bowtiedriver, I panicked a bit like that a few weeks or so ago when I heard of a similar price at a dealer here in Sweden. But that was before I heard that it was being brought to Europe as a standard model here too. And before that I knew that it was being mass produced. So yeah, that price is probably what some limited editions are going to sell for, but also for those who NEED to be first with having one. I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that it's going to be down to about 28-30K for a base V8 pretty quickly.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:01 AM   #109
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Some GM dealers have already begun auctioning the right to purchase the first 2009 Chevrolet Camaros on eBay. Currently, 'Buy It Now' prices sit between $20,000 and $25,000 (the amount the customer agrees to pay on top of the car's MSRP!!).

Back in May, some dealers began taking $1,000 deposits for the new Camaro. But, GM pressured the dealers to remove ads for down-payments, because production for the car had not yet been approved. However, following yesterday's official announcement that GM will build the Camaro, it seems the dealers are right back at it again.
I called my dealer this morning and he said that they dont have any information that i dont already know about the camaro. BUT he said there is no list for the camaro down here, he said that from what they told him is that its going to be a free for all so who ever and anyone can get one if thier money will allow them. He said that there will be a mark up he said around 2,000 to 5,000. He told me to call him towards the end of this year and he said that he was more than willing to work with me on prices and give me first dibs on picks seens how we wont have a list. He also said that the big boys will be around 40,000 for the SS and Z28's
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:47 PM   #110
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I called my dealer this morning and he said that they dont have any information that i dont already know about the camaro. BUT he said there is no list for the camaro down here, he said that from what they told him is that its going to be a free for all so who ever and anyone can get one if thier money will allow them. He said that there will be a mark up he said around 2,000 to 5,000. He told me to call him towards the end of this year and he said that he was more than willing to work with me on prices and give me first dibs on picks seens how we wont have a list. He also said that the big boys will be around 40,000 for the SS and Z28's
First, welcome to the site!

Second, did he say they were going to mark them up 2-5K? If so, add that name of the dealer to the price gougers....name and address if you can. Seeing as though WE HATE dealers who gouge, we want EVERYONE we can, to know about thier "customer service."
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:54 PM   #111
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First, welcome to the site!

Second, did he say they were going to mark them up 2-5K? If so, add that name of the dealer to the price gougers....name and address if you can. Seeing as though WE HATE dealers who gouge, we want EVERYONE we can, to know about thier "customer service."
Thanks, good to be here

Ill do that.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:39 AM   #112
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I know a guy that leased his GT500 with the dealer markup added in. If I wanted one of those cars I would be waiting at the dealership when it is turned in because it will probably sell for high 20's.
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:23 PM   #113
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Well if they do the price gouging again like the did with the gto then it will be a no brainer for me i will buy a new corvette.
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:30 PM   #114
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I don't see how any dealer can know anything about the price of these cars other then guessing. I've called 7 different dealers here in oregon and not a single one had any real idea what the final pricing would be cause GM hasnt told them yet and none would take any money down because of that. The only thing 1 dealer said was i can come in and put $1000 down when the cars are ready to order so they can make sure i get one with the color and options i want. And that 1k isnt added to the price.
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Old 06-16-2008, 02:16 AM   #115
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^If you want to spend 1K to get in line and have that roll into the purchase...and don't mind not making the interest of that 1K in your own bank account, ...and it's fully refundable should you change your mind, go ahead and do what you want!

Personally, I won't put anything down on paper until GM does.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:49 PM   #116
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No thats what I'm saying, it's only an advanced down payment once the dealer has the info from GM on the pricing and options and such. It isnt saving me a spot its just the first $1000 towards the car since they will have to order the car i want and not just go in and pick from what they have on site.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:26 PM   #117
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Working for a Chevrolet dealer, I get to buy mine at GMS (employee pricing) WOOOOOOHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:39 PM   #118
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Well other than the discounts they give to US Military, there aren't many other breaks I am likely to get on the car. Though from what I know, some of the Military breaks on GM cars are pretty good.
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Old 06-16-2008, 06:44 PM   #119
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Well other than the discounts they give to US Military, there aren't many other breaks I am likely to get on the car. Though from what I know, some of the Military breaks on GM cars are pretty good.
until september 30th this year you get supplier pricing plus rebates.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:56 AM   #120
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I was told by someone who probably didn't know what they were talking about and they said even military wouldn't get the discounts right after the Camaro came out.

Is this true or can I go up there right after they're available and order one with all the discounts?? (yes Im military)
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Old 06-17-2008, 09:05 AM   #121
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I was told by someone who probably didn't know what they were talking about and they said even military wouldn't get the discounts right after the Camaro came out.

Is this true or can I go up there right after they're available and order one with all the discounts?? (yes Im military)
There are no military discounts on only the Vette right now. Every other Chevrolet vehicle has them though . GM Code: MP. I don't see why they wouldn't give it on the camaro, but I don't make the rules, Ed Peper does...
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:29 AM   #122
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There are no military discounts on only the Vette right now. Every other Chevrolet vehicle has them though . GM Code: MP. I don't see why they wouldn't give it on the camaro, but I don't make the rules, Ed Peper does...
this person I spoke too (some random Joe) said because everyone will want the new camaro there will be gouging and you wont be able to get the Supplier deal (military)

I just wanted to know if he was BS'n me or not. I want to buy mine at supplier and I want to get it right when I get back or shortly after (Feb of 2009) not real sure when the Camaro comes out, Ive heard different stories
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:35 AM   #123
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You probably won't see a Camaro on the lot until the end of March/early April from what I've been told...Most dealers will be asking over sticker, but that's only an asking price. everything is negotiable, trust me. BTW, my sales manager is a NAVY boy, so if you're gonna be in South Florida, he may be able to pull some strings for ya...
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:43 AM   #124
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I've got news for the dealers. With the way the car business is, and gas prices, they better get real.
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:47 AM   #125
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I've got news for the dealers. With the way the car business is, and gas prices, they better get real.
BINGO

and this former Navy boy now Soldier wont pay sticker. me and my money will wait till GM and their boys get their heads out of their asses. then Ill buy at supplier. Ive worked to hard to go blow all my money on a over priced car. I want one more than GM will ever know. But my momma didn't raise any fool
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