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Old 11-29-2008, 09:51 AM   #1
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STAY TRUE TO THE MODEL

With all the "bailout" talk going on it sometimes clouds our brains of the TRUE joy we'll ALL experience in about 3 months, as our LONG AWAITED PASSIONS start lolling off the line

We know that this project has already been financially supported, or they wouldn't allow us to order the cars. So let's enjoy the moment by keeping the anticipation & excitement going!

At the same time we must also keep close tabs on the state of the company, which will play a major role in the production years ahead, for every vehicle.

Having said this, here is a link to the real issues that hamper "THE GENERAL" as we know it. Pay (no pun intended) close attention to the top 5 salary earners and the numbers.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=GM
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Old 11-29-2008, 10:14 AM   #2
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.......
Having said this, here is a link to the real issues that hamper "THE GENERAL" as we know it. Pay (no pun intended) close attention to the top 5 salary earners and the numbers.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=GM
Pay close attention to what those in similar positions at any other company worldwide earn. If you were doing your job for $10 an hour and you knew you could get $20 an hour no problem elsewhere doing the same thing, would you?

I'm not defending these salaries at a time when GM needs every last cent, and we have yet to see if these guys take a pay cut which who knows they may be willing to do (notice none except 1 exercised any stock options), but also GM hired them knowing what they were paying for, thats the going rate, and if GM didnt, someone else would, and if GM dropped them someone else would pay them.
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Old 11-29-2008, 10:26 AM   #3
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I'm pretty sure the CEO doesn't set his own salary. that's up to the board. as has been explained to me. at the same time who here would deny someone giving them millions of dollars? no one. . .
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Old 11-29-2008, 10:35 AM   #4
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With these guys making millions I would go back to congress and say I will not work for 1 dollar a year during the restructure but would take the same pay a normal line worker makes for the next 2-3 years to help turn around cost.

The 1 dollar thing was kind of silly but this would make sense.
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:19 AM   #5
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These guys are getting paid for their jobs. I want that pay to go down since it is preposterous, but the truth is that they've earned every dime if they can get GM through this disaster.
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:16 PM   #6
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These guys are getting paid for their jobs. I want that pay to go down since it is preposterous, but the truth is that they've earned every dime if they can get GM through this disaster.
I'm reminded of a quote from Albert Einstein that can be applied to the management at GM for the last 10 years:

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

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Old 11-29-2008, 12:29 PM   #7
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These guys are getting paid for their jobs. I want that pay to go down since it is preposterous, but the truth is that they've earned every dime if they can get GM through this disaster.
Keyword being IF.

They need to voluntarily take pay cuts. Take one for the team boys. Once we're back making money, then we can go back to giving you a nice fat paycheck for your efforts.
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:41 PM   #8
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Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D View Post
With these guys making millions I would go back to congress and say I will not work for 1 dollar a year during the restructure but would take the same pay a normal line worker makes for the next 2-3 years to help turn around cost.

The 1 dollar thing was kind of silly but this would make sense.
Sad thing is most Congress members make tons of money too and it isn't their salary either. How much money is enough? I know people who don't play the lottery until it gets way high, whats that tell you? 1 million isn't enough.
I hope GM survives, they make the best looking cars on the planet.

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Old 11-29-2008, 12:53 PM   #9
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the truth is that they've earned every dime if they can get GM through this disaster.
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Old 11-29-2008, 01:06 PM   #10
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Richard Wagoner is number 407 on the list of the highest paid CEOs, and GM is one of the biggest companies there is.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/12/...n_Rank_17.html

He's not an overpaid CEO AT ALL. One could argue though, that all the men on this list are overpaid.

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Old 11-29-2008, 01:12 PM   #11
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Regardless of how much Wagoner makes, he was running the ship when it ran aground so afaiac, he's lucky he still has his job. If I were the board, I would be all over him about holding off on his salary until they get back on the rails.
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Old 11-29-2008, 01:17 PM   #12
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#79 Alan R Mulally, Ford Motor : $20,830,000...... No, Richard Wagoner isnt overpaid.
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Old 11-29-2008, 02:17 PM   #13
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I don't agree with exorbitant salaries, but the going rate for a top CEO is what it is. If GM does'nt want to pay it, they get whoever is willing to do the job for less, and that is somebody with no experience. I think there is too much turnover at many big corporations nowadays, which leads to extreme shortsightedness when it comes to long term decisions. I mean, if Wagoner is building the right products, and has the company headed in the right direction for the long term, should they fire him due to short term struggles? I hope they don't, because if you look at the quality of GM vehicles lately, they continue to up the bar and they offer things that no other automaker does, when you look at the CTS-V, Camaro (soon), G8, cobalt ss, and Corvette. These are unbelievable performance values in their category, and they are all well built quality cars.

If GM was to only build Corolla and Camry copies like congress thinks they should, the performance division and all these awesome cars will be killed.
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Old 11-29-2008, 03:12 PM   #14
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And all five combined earn less than Mullaly at Ford. The issue?
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Old 11-29-2008, 03:21 PM   #15
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And all five combined earn less than Mullaly at Ford. The issue?
They all expect to be paid well. There's a certain point where loyalty to a company and country seem to get replaced by a huge paycheck. Would you guys rather have our GM company leadership be replaced every 5 years because someone in Japan, Korea, China, or India will pay more money? Ford needs to cut that paycheck by a lot.
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:08 PM   #16
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I find it interesting that Congress wants these gentlemen to work for $1.

Last time I checked, the good ol' USofA had a huge deficit. Are any of these politicians willing to forego their salaries seeing as how they helped with these deficits......(eerie silence)....... I thought not
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:12 PM   #17
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I find it interesting that Congress wants these gentlemen to work for $1.

Last time I checked, the good ol' USofA had a huge deficit. Are any of these politicians willing to forego their salaries seeing as how they helped with these deficits......(eerie silence)....... I thought not
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:35 PM   #18
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I forget where I read this, but did anybody see where GM higher ups went to Congress in their Private Jets? I was laughing so hard. How can you go to congress and say you need helping, when 3 Jets dropped off 3 GM higher ups. Make my Camaro and I could care less about how your company does. Losing 27 mil a day and you're flying around in your private jets and wondering why your in the red? 2+2=4, use your brains.
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Old 11-30-2008, 12:16 AM   #19
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salary isn't the issue...

and on the jet issue...those idiots in congress are the last people who should be trying to call anybody a hypocrite...

the issues stand from c.a.f.e government regulations and poor uaw contracts that shouldn't have been signed...

whatever happened to just paying people actual market value?? unions destroy that and take away incentive for productivity since no matter how crappy you work your getting paid the same thing as the next guy
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:41 AM   #20
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Regardless of how much Wagoner makes, he was running the ship when it ran aground so afaiac, he's lucky he still has his job. If I were the board, I would be all over him about holding off on his salary until they get back on the rails.
Thank you, finally someone else who identifies the problems, start at the top.
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Old 11-30-2008, 11:50 AM   #21
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The problems started when guys like Wagoner were just beginning their professional careers. Can CEO's be blamed for takings millions of dollars when their company is losing billions? yes. Would it fix the problem? not by a long shot. 20M is nothing next to 20B.

Is it Wagoners fault that the auto industry is down by ~30%? No
Is it Mullays fault that the UAW/CAW exist? No
Is it Nardellis fault that domestic cars weren't reliable 30 years ago? No

Those are the 3 biggest problems that the domestic auto makers face, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the current crop of management. That being said, if I was making millions a year and my company was in trouble, I work for a buck just to help out.
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Old 11-30-2008, 11:53 AM   #22
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Keyword being IF.

They need to voluntarily take pay cuts. Take one for the team boys. Once we're back making money, then we can go back to giving you a nice fat paycheck for your efforts.

I completely agree, I think some CEOs (not necessarily at GM) make as much as $40million a year?! It's , but they earned their title. Saying they should make the same as another worker is ridiculous - CEOs probably don't sleep with the economy the way it is...but I think if they took a voluntary pay cut it would help the company a great deal and when the economy turns around and GM comes back they'll be glad.

It's better for the CEOs to make 20% less than what they do now then lose their job and make nothing!
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Old 12-01-2008, 05:29 PM   #23
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The problems started when guys like Wagoner were just beginning their professional careers. Can CEO's be blamed for takings millions of dollars when their company is losing billions? yes. Would it fix the problem? not by a long shot. 20M is nothing next to 20B.

Is it Wagoners fault that the auto industry is down by ~30%? No
Is it Mullays fault that the UAW/CAW exist? No
Is it Nardellis fault that domestic cars weren't reliable 30 years ago? No

Those are the 3 biggest problems that the domestic auto makers face, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the current crop of management. That being said, if I was making millions a year and my company was in trouble, I work for a buck just to help out.
Couldn't agree more. Even if it doesn't help out THAT much, it would help your company's image a ton. Gotta lead by example.
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Old 12-01-2008, 05:45 PM   #24
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Maybe no one has stepped back and really thought about this. Do you know that VERY few CEOs take commercial flights? Most are restricted from doing so due to security measures in place to prevent these individuals from being kidnapped and ransomed.

Additionally, I don't see Congress or the President working for $1, do you? Aren't they part of the reason the economy is in the shitter? I don't see any of them giving back their exorbanant benefits or salaries? Not a single one of them makes an "average US citizens' salary.

Bottom line is that we, as a country, have ZERO leadership. The people in power are there because they have the money to buy their way in. Perfect example is our upcoming President.

Until there is a grass-roots change in society that changes the "value" from a materialistic society to one of a common-good....we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:00 PM   #25
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Maybe no one has stepped back and really thought about this. Do you know that VERY few CEOs take commercial flights? Most are restricted from doing so due to security measures in place to prevent these individuals from being kidnapped and ransomed.

Additionally, I don't see Congress or the President working for $1, do you? Aren't they part of the reason the economy is in the shitter? I don't see any of them giving back their exorbanant benefits or salaries? Not a single one of them makes an "average US citizens' salary.

Bottom line is that we, as a country, have ZERO leadership. The people in power are there because they have the money to buy their way in. Perfect example is our upcoming President.

Until there is a grass-roots change in society that changes the "value" from a materialistic society to one of a common-good....we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.
that whole security thing is a joke afaic. Hockey palyers in town here making 10 million a year and you don't see anyone kidnapping them when they are around town. If they think they need security then they can hire a security guard to walk around with him.
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