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Old 08-22-2010, 11:51 AM   #1
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Coilover FACTS.

Coilover FACTS.
  1. RACING coilovers adjust height by screwing into or out of the lower mount. Other types of coilovers, like Pedders OLD eXtremes, use the lower spring perch to adjust for height. This creates a litany of issues in car set up. The most critical is the lower you set the vehicle the less jounce / bound travel there is. This adversely alters ride quality. Lowering the car decreases the pre-compression on a coil. Raising the car by spring perch increases the pre-compression on a car. Having uneven coil pre-compression at each wheel after corner weighting in not desirable for optimal setup. Pedders Xa and Supercar coilovers adjust ride height like a RACING coilovers screwing into or out of the lower mount while preserving coil balance, and ride quality.
  2. Some brand-x coilovers do NOT use OEM mounts for their coilovers. An example would be removing the rubber bush from the rear upper spring perch and converting it for use as the load bearing point for the rear coilover. The shock bush in the Camaro upper spring perch was not designed or intended to be used as a load bearing point for the rear spring. ALL Pedders coilovers use the OEM mounting points.
  3. Inverted coilovers require maintenance. What cause failure of the shaft seal? Dirt. Debris. Abrasion. In an inverted coilover the seal shaft seal is pointed down to the pavement, mounted in the lower control arm. The most delicate wear component is exposed to the harshest operating conditions with an inverted design. That is why inverted coilovers are best suited for track use -- limited exposure and miles. Does your customer want a coilover that requires seal maintenance? Does your customer know the inverted coilover seals require routine maintenance? Can ANYONE tell the customer what the expected shaft seal life will be for an inverted coilover on the street? The answer is no. Do they drive down dusty roads? Do they drive near the beach where sand blows on the road? Do they drive in the rain? It will be different by customer depending on driving habits, road conditions, climate variables and more. NONE of Pedders coilovers are inverted and do NOT require routine maintenance like an inverted coilover.
  4. The clevis on Pedders Xa and Supercar coilovers are 10mm wider than OE to allow for increased negative camber range WITHOUT any additional parts. This also help balance the front and rear track to reduce understeer
  5. RACING coilvers have independent bound and rebound adjustment. If you are a racer, if you are a wannabe racer, if you autocross, if you drag race, if you are an enthusiast you want a coilover to be able to adjust, to tune your Camaro. The hands down class leader for the Camaro is Pedders SUPERCAR coilovers. It adjusts height by screwing into and out of the clevis. It has bound adjustment. It has rebound adjustment. It is not inverted. It does not require routine shaft seal maintenance. It has 10mm of extra clevis width to allow for great negative camber. Pedders Supercar Coilovers have independent bound and rebound adjustment.
  6. The bigger the piston diameter, the smoother the function. Pedders Supercar coilovers are 52mm. Our Xa range and most coilovers on the market are 46mm. The larger the diameter of the piston, the larger the volume of oil the SMOOTHER the control will be. This is a rule of fluid dynamics. Pedders Supercar coilovers will deliver the smoothest, the best possible ride quality you can get out of a Camaro. Supercar coilovers will be a superior ride for the owner to OEM because of the fluid dynamics and independent bound and rebound adjustment.
  7. Pedders Supercar Performance, alliance with GM and GMPP make Pedders the Camaro leader. Every GM owned Camaro at SEMA 2009 was on Pedders. Jay Leno's Camaro is on Pedders. All the 2010 NASCAR and INDY Camaro Pace Cars ride on Pedders.

These are the facts and nothing but the facts.
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Old 08-22-2010, 12:48 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS View Post
Coilover FACTS.
  1. RACING coilovers adjust height by screwing into or out of the lower mount. Other types of coilovers, like Pedders OLD eXtremes, use the lower spring perch to adjust for height. This creates a litany of issues in car set up. The most critical is the lower you set the vehicle the less jounce / bound travel there is. This adversely alters ride quality. Lowering the car decreases the pre-compression on a coil. Raising the car by spring perch increases the pre-compression on a car. Having uneven coil pre-compression at each wheel after corner weighting in not desirable for optimal setup. Pedders Xa and Supercar coilovers adjust ride height like a RACING coilovers screwing into or out of the lower mount while preserving coil balance, and ride quality.
  2. Some brand-x coilovers do NOT use OEM mounts for their coilovers. An example would be removing the rubber bush from the rear upper spring perch and converting it for use as the load bearing point for the rear coilover. The shock bush in the Camaro upper spring perch was not designed or intended to be used as a load bearing point for the rear spring. ALL Pedders coilovers use the OEM mounting points.
  3. Inverted coilovers require maintenance. What cause failure of the shaft seal? Dirt. Debris. Abrasion. In an inverted coilover the seal shaft seal is pointed down to the pavement, mounted in the lower control arm. The most delicate wear component is exposed to the harshest operating conditions with an inverted design. That is why inverted coilovers are best suited for track use -- limited exposure and miles. Does your customer want a coilover that requires seal maintenance? Does your customer know the inverted coilover seals require routine maintenance? Can ANYONE tell the customer what the expected shaft seal life will be for an inverted coilover on the street? The answer is no. Do they drive down dusty roads? Do they drive near the beach where sand blows on the road? Do they drive in the rain? It will be different by customer depending on driving habits, road conditions, climate variables and more. NONE of Pedders coilovers are inverted and do NOT require routine maintenance like an inverted coilover.
  4. The clevis on Pedders Xa and Supercar coilovers are 10mm wider than OE to allow for increased negative camber range WITHOUT any additional parts. This also help balance the front and rear track to reduce understeer
  5. RACING coilvers have independent bound and rebound adjustment. If you are a racer, if you are a wannabe racer, if you autocross, if you drag race, if you are an enthusiast you want a coilover to be able to adjust, to tune your Camaro. The hands down class leader for the Camaro is Pedders SUPERCAR coilovers. It adjusts height by screwing into and out of the clevis. It has bound adjustment. It has rebound adjustment. It is not inverted. It does not require routine shaft seal maintenance. It has 10mm of extra clevis width to allow for great negative camber. Pedders Supercar Coilovers have independent bound and rebound adjustment.
  6. The bigger the piston diameter, the smoother the function. Pedders Supercar coilovers are 52mm. Our Xa range and most coilovers on the market are 46mm. The larger the diameter of the piston, the larger the volume of oil the SMOOTHER the control will be. This is a rule of fluid dynamics. Pedders Supercar coilovers will deliver the smoothest, the best possible ride quality you can get out of a Camaro. Supercar coilovers will be a superior ride for the owner to OEM because of the fluid dynamics and independent bound and rebound adjustment.
  7. Pedders Supercar Performance, alliance with GM and GMPP make Pedders the Camaro leader. Every GM owned Camaro at SEMA 2009 was on Pedders. Jay Leno's Camaro is on Pedders. All the 2010 NASCAR and INDY Camaro Pace Cars ride on Pedders.

These are the facts and nothing but the facts.

Issue #1 is what I'm running into with the Pfadt's. Also, #2 is a problem because I had to remove the rubber bushing for the Pfadt's.

Would you happen to know the part number for the rear upper rubber bushings?
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Old 08-22-2010, 01:42 PM   #3
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do not, but i'll see what i can find
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Old 08-22-2010, 04:49 PM   #4
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Hmm... many things to consider.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSteve View Post
Issue #1 is what I'm running into with the Pfadt's. Also, #2 is a problem because I had to remove the rubber bushing for the Pfadt's.

Would you happen to know the part number for the rear upper rubber bushings?
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Old 08-26-2010, 02:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSteve View Post
Issue #1 is what I'm running into with the Pfadt's. Also, #2 is a problem because I had to remove the rubber bushing for the Pfadt's.

Would you happen to know the part number for the rear upper rubber bushings?
SSteve did you get the PN from Pett's post?
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Old 08-26-2010, 02:52 PM   #7
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We have been in the suspension business for several years and the facts in this post is why at our shop we recomend Pedders suspension parts for our customers cars.They mount as the OEM designed them and now they are a GMPP part.
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Old 08-26-2010, 07:47 PM   #8
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I can honestly say I am very happy with my Pedders supercar coilovers! They have met every expectation, and I am very hard to please. Now all I need is to beef up my drivetrain and add MORE POWER!!!!!
I know while I am currently at 564 RWHP...can we ever really have enough power?
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:41 AM   #9
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It never hurts to use fact and data when you choose suspension parts. The Pro Touring event by Motor State includes a number of suspension companies. The Pedders Camaro was faster than the competition last year (the time posted in the chart) and is even faster this year (time withheld at the request of two magazines).

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Old 08-27-2010, 08:35 PM   #10
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Rob/Pete, thanks for taking the time to post up the information. I just wanted to get a better understanding of some of your points because I am still researching the eventual route I'd like to go with coilovers once I get to the point that my driving skills get beyond the lowering springs I currently run on the car.

Forst and foremost, for the sake of full disclosure and to not appear to be a mole infiltrating the thread, I currently am running Pfadt sways and springs and their coils were one of a few toward the top of my list for future suspension upgrades along with the Pedders units, KW units and now even possibly the Penskes that were just posted about.

The main points I'd like some more insight into are #1 and #2.

For #1, I don't follow how the use of the spring perch to raise or lower the car effects the compression on the spring, as long as the strut rises or falls with the raising or lowering of the perch I would think that the pre-compression on the spring would remain the same. With the rise and fall of the strut I would think 1000 ponds of car sitting on the corner is going to pre-compress the spring the same regardless if it is one inch higher or two inches lower. I apologize if my terms are a bit off but I am coming from the "mortal man using layman's term" side of the suspension equation.

As for #2, looking at the construction of the OE rear strut, it appears that the shock bush is load bearing already and the rubber bush is just in there to help GM meet their "ride quality"/ NVH specs. I don't see how removing that rubber bush all of a sudden makes the shock bush load bearing when it already appears to have to handle the full load presented to it by the rear strut with the bush in there to dull the NVH.

I want to make sure you guys understand that the reason I am getting involved here and probing a little bit more is I just want a better understanding of the points you are trying to make about the design some manufacturers have chosen to use in the past and even the present. I'm not going to try and hide the act that I know a couple of the design points you reference here are found in the Pfadt Coilovers for the Camaro while at the same time you admit that the spring perch to adjust ride height has been used by yourselves in the past. It is sometimes very difficult to come across as sincere with questions on a forum so I am doing my best to do just that and not have my questioning appear as though I am trying to start a vendor war. I hope you'll view it the same way and offer some further insight into your points above as it will probably help me and many other in my/our decision-making process.

Thanks in advance....
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:22 PM   #11
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Your are welcome here.

Think of the coil spring as being perfectly cylindrical with the winds perfectly spaced at 25mm with 2mm of preload. They general are not, but for sake of discssion we'll say they are. 2mm of preload is Pedders specification for the Xa and Supercar front coilover. To raise the car from the mid-point on the coilover by spring perch 20mm you would need to screw the spring perch up 20mm. The coil has no where to go because it is captured between the upper spring seat and the lower spring seat. So the coil spacing will change as you raise the car. The inverse is also true until the coil actually become loose when a at full droop on a lift. Not only does this change how the coil reacts, it changes the jounce travel the amount of travel in the damper until the bumpstop is fully compressed. In the previous generation eXtreme coilover we made, we used helper spring to offset this. That creates different issues and there is no need to over complicate this.

Going back to the 2mm of preload specified in Pedders Xa and Supercar Coilovers. We set the preload at 2mm. The coil spacing is exactly where we want it. There is roughly 3" of adjustment in the front of a Pedders Camaro coilover or 75mm. If we adjusted height by moving the spring perch we would not come close to maintaining the 2mm of coil preload once we move up or down 2 or 3mm. By setting the coil preload at 2mm we also set the jounce travel. No matter how high or how low you set your Camaro with a Pedders coilover the travel to full compression of the bumpstop remains the same and so does the ride quality.

A damper / shock does not carry load. The spring carries load. The center bushing in the Camaro was designed ONLY to mount a damper. The surrounding spring perch was designed to carry load. The load bearing rear mounting points in a 5th Gen Camaro are the upper and lower spring perches / seats and not the shock mount.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:42 PM   #12
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This is very interesting information.
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:25 PM   #13
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At some point, can't the serious racer look at the 'Ride Quality' factor and say you're a sissy for even making it a factor???

I just wonder how much performance is lost due to 'Ride Quality' being a factor when a manufacturer makes a suspension product.

Just curious.

If ride quality was something I didn't care about, (and vibrating wheels don't count) are their some other coilovers or springs I would want to look at from anyone?
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:19 AM   #14
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On the rear perch vs shock mount I think I understand the point you are trying to make now after looking at the picture you have above as well as from a picture in Eric Berry's build thread (friggin lucky SOB, now I know where that work of art intake manifold is getting installed )

I am understanding you to say the load bearing portion of the rear perch/mount is going from the #1 arrow below to the #2 arrow.



From the underside I guess the load bearing point that the spring presses against is best shown. And going to the shock mount would put the load up up higher "inside" the whole perch/mount piece.



Now that I think I am on the same page with what you're referring to, what is the problem I could run into using a unit that implements this transfer of load?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
To raise the car from the mid-point on the coilover by spring perch 20mm you would need to screw the spring perch up 20mm. The coil has no where to go because it is captured between the upper spring seat and the lower spring seat. So the coil spacing will change as you raise the car. The inverse is also true until the coil actually become loose when a at full droop on a lift. Not only does this change how the coil reacts, it changes the jounce travel the amount of travel in the damper until the bumpstop is fully compressed. In the previous generation eXtreme coilover we made, we used helper spring to offset this. That creates different issues and there is no need to over complicate this.
I think this is where I am getting confused with the ride height/lower perch thing. I clearly understand the fixed design you guys use where the upper and lower spring perches have a fixed distance between them and that fixed unit rises and falls out of the clevis below (I think I have the right name for what I am thinking about) to adjust ride height. The part I am stuck on is in the inverted design and the notion that the adjustment of the lower perch changes the compression on the spring. I could understand that being the case in a design like yours if the top and bottom perches both resided on a fixed structure and adjusting the lower perch changed the distance between the two perches but in a non fixed design where the two perches are not on the same fixed structure/tube (not sure of the terminology here) I would think that the pre-compression on the spring would be determined by the weight of the car resting on the spring. If the lower perch is lowered, the strut will shorten a bit and the height and weight of the car will come down as well to once again rest on the spring and pre-compress it to the same length it was at the higher ride height.

As for the jounce/travel and hitting the bumpstop I think I see your point that there is a certain lowered height that is so low the spring never gets to use its full range before hitting the stop. Does the possibility exist that the spring will go solid before the bumpstop would even come into play? No clue here about the design aspects that go into solid spring height and bumpstop height so just throwing that out there.

Thanks in advance again for tolerating me here, this exercise definitely helps me to understand things and hopefully others as well.
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:39 AM   #15
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At some point, can't the serious racer look at the 'Ride Quality' factor and say you're a sissy for even making it a factor???

I just wonder how much performance is lost due to 'Ride Quality' being a factor when a manufacturer makes a suspension product.

Just curious.

If ride quality was something I didn't care about, (and vibrating wheels don't count) are their some other coilovers or springs I would want to look at from anyone?
I like to reply to a question like with with the F1 car concept. The F1 car must weigh in at a minimum at the end of the race, about 1,500 pounds. Ar the end of the race the drivers go off the road and pick up every pebble they can to add weight for the post race weight in.

My Camaro weighs in race ready at just under 4,200 pounds with driver or is almost THREE time heavier than a F1 car.

The rear wheels on an F1 car are for the sake of discussion ONLT 12" wide. To run a similar tire for the Camaro the rear tires would need to be THREE FEET WIDE. Most fast production car are under tired. They have too much weight, the brakes are too powerful and the engine two powerful for the size of the tire.

A very hard suspension will make you very fast for very few laps. You will frequently see NASCAR teams run a coil bound car in qualifying. The coil bound car is really fast. It will also east tires in no more than 6 laps. They NEVER race coil bound. Once again they are under tired.

Your Camaro is under tired. A very hard suspension will do nothing but eat your tires. A rock hard suspension will build heat rapidly in the tires causing them to get greasy. Once they are greasy they are slow. You can see from Pedders track testing that we are in balance for the car -- in harmony with just the right amount of compliance and the right amount of control. Lap after lap the cars are consistent because we work within the limitations of the vehicle.

Short answer, Pedders has the fastest lap times on the track for daily driven cars. The Pro Touring guys build phenomenal street machines. They are excellent drivers. We are faster than all of them in a car that is heavier than any of them and we run 100% stock control arms without a single chassis brace in the Camaro. What do we lose by being street civil and track ready -- NOTHING!
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:28 AM   #16
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Consider this a generic picture of an inverted design coilover.



The fixed point is the lower spring perch and the upper spring perch is where adjustment is made. Pre-compression is the load you place on the coil before you install it in the car and not the weight of the car sitting on the coils. That is called loaded height. The coil pictured above has an ideal height setting. I don't know what it is. It may be 5mm lower than stock, maybe 25mm lower than stock or 70mm lower than stock. There is a sweet spot that the coil will function best within the design parameters of the coil and damper. Raisin or lowering from that point degrades from optimal performance. When you raise or lower by spring perch height as opposed to setting the spring and adjusting the monotube body the best methodology would be to use coils of different lengths just as we all do for lowering coils.
I do follow you here with one exception. In the picture you post above it is obvious that the upper and lower perches are parts of two different structural parts and there fore (extreme example) when the coilover is not installed on the car there is no pre-compression on the spring because any attempt by the spring to expand will be allowed because it doesn't sit between two fixed points and will be allowed to expand until it can no longer overcome the resistance of the damper (hang with me here I am trying to speak suspension techie and probably failing but you get the picture). If I loosen the top perch, essentially running the perch higher on the tube then the result I would expect is the car to lower and the coil length be the same as it was at the higher ride height and the function of the spring remains the same, the car is just a bot lower. The only thing I can gather is the pre-compression you speak of would just prevent the spring from flopping around when there is no load at all on the spring such as in an "airborne" scenario or extreme unweighting of one of the corners. I am guessing that is where the helper spring comes into play in that picture as well given the chance that given enough duration of unloading the distance between the upper and lower perches might have the opportunity to be greater than the length of the uncompressed spring.

I do also see what you mean by if you were to lower the car enough it brings the top mono tube much closer to the bump stop and possibly limiting the travel range of the unit but I wonder if a ride height that low would ever be required or even functional on the Camaro.
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:56 PM   #17
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I have a BMR strut brace that fastens to the top of the shock towers. Can I run the Pedders coil-overs and retain the strut brace? Thanks, Bob
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:58 PM   #18
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I have a BMR strut brace that fastens to the top of the shock towers. Can I run the Pedders coil-overs and retain the strut brace? Thanks, Bob
Yes.

That may be my shortest answer ever.
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Old 08-28-2010, 08:19 PM   #19
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The Pro Touring guys build phenomenal street machines. They are excellent drivers. We are faster than all of them in a car that is heavier than any of them and we run 100% stock control arms without a single chassis brace in the Camaro. What do we lose by being street civil and track ready -- NOTHING!
I think we need a run off between your 2010 and my '68.. just for fun.. maybe have the same driver pilot both to take that out of the formula.

What tires do you run? I'm on PS2s now.. and yea, I know my car weighs 800 lbs less but that's not my fault

It would be fun.. I have a fairly competent PT car, and we fixed out problems from Spring Mountain.. Buttonwillow on the 25th? It would be hoot.

Also, I seem to remember a few being faster than you at Spring Mountain.. Just sayin..

The red car is badass.. and I nailed some killer shots of it at Gingerman, looked great and was crazy fast.
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:29 PM   #20
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Steve,

That is a tempting invitation. You are right there will a couple of cars faster than us at the Optima event. The two weaknesses we had in 2010 were running OE brakes and the computer pulling timing out of the car due to IATs. The CTS-V brakes resolved the braking and the Stage II inter cooler from ProCharger resolved the IAT issues. I wish I could make the 25th. Yancy mentioned it too... Allow me to return the compliment you have one bad '68.
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:55 PM   #21
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Man you guys out east and on the west coast have all the fun tracks. I am stuck in the desert about 4 hours from the closest track. I guess I need to start planning more road trips.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:31 PM   #22
Steve1968LS2
 
Drives: 1968 LS2 powered - Bad Penny
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Steve,

That is a tempting invitation. You are right there will a couple of cars faster than us at the Optima event. The two weaknesses we had in 2010 were running OE brakes and the computer pulling timing out of the car due to IATs. The CTS-V brakes resolved the braking and the Stage II inter cooler from ProCharger resolved the IAT issues. I wish I could make the 25th. Yancy mentioned it too... Allow me to return the compliment you have one bad '68.
We all had issues.. I have the same computer in my car as yours.. and we lost first-gear syncro and a PS pump.. This year we are trying to spend more time making sure stuff will be right. They will also have a 200 treadwear tire rule, which is a good thing considering it's a "street car" event.

But it would be fun.. get Boris Said or someone to pilot both all out.. see what happens. My guess is it would be close one way or the other.

Then again.. sometimes I wish I had your air conditioning! lol
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1968 Camaro - 461 RHS LS 700hp, various stuff, called Bad Penny
1968 Camaro - In progress, called Track Rat
2010 Camaro - DSE Suspension, Baer 6S Brakes, Boze Wheels, Nitto NT05 Tires, JBA Exhaust and long tubes, Magnacharger TVS, 660rwhp Forged Eagle 416 LS3 short block, ADM fuel system, Lingenfelter GT-9 cam, G-Force axles, Anvil and Seibon CF parts, Centerforce Dual-Disc Clutch

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Old 08-30-2010, 08:42 AM   #23
Iansane
 
Drives: 325is
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lansing
Posts: 50
I agree with Robertway. There is no preload on the spring unless you adjust ride height to the shocks maximum extension. Once you reach this point, ride height is no longer changing, but you are then compressing the spring, creating preload (force). I'm not sure who would ever want to do this.
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:34 AM   #24
besherman
 
Drives: 2008 GMC Denali
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oakland, Oregon
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Can anyone tell me how the Pedders set up compares to the ones on the SLP Camaro, the Lingenfelter Camaro and the Callaway Camaro? I'm more interested in the differences one would notice in actual street driving along twisty mountain roads than differences on the track.


Thanks,
Bruce
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:49 AM   #25
JusticePete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertway View Post
I do follow you here with one exception. In the picture you post above it is obvious that the upper and lower perches are parts of two different structural parts and there fore (extreme example) when the coilover is not installed on the car there is no pre-compression on the spring because any attempt by the spring to expand will be allowed because it doesn't sit between two fixed points and will be allowed to expand until it can no longer overcome the resistance of the damper (hang with me here I am trying to speak suspension techie and probably failing but you get the picture). If I loosen the top perch, essentially running the perch higher on the tube then the result I would expect is the car to lower and the coil length be the same as it was at the higher ride height and the function of the spring remains the same, the car is just a bot lower. The only thing I can gather is the pre-compression you speak of would just prevent the spring from flopping around when there is no load at all on the spring such as in an "airborne" scenario or extreme unweighting of one of the corners. I am guessing that is where the helper spring comes into play in that picture as well given the chance that given enough duration of unloading the distance between the upper and lower perches might have the opportunity to be greater than the length of the uncompressed spring.

I do also see what you mean by if you were to lower the car enough it brings the top mono tube much closer to the bump stop and possibly limiting the travel range of the unit but I wonder if a ride height that low would ever be required or even functional on the Camaro.
The fixed point at full droop, the wheels hanging at full damper extension is a fixed point as in a fixed distance. In the case of the ccoilover pictured in my post, the brand x coilover is using a helper spring to keep the main coil in the seat at full extension. That has NOTHING to do with the preload on the coil at rest at side height. There will be an optimal spring perch setting on a coilover that adjust height by spring perch for optimal function of the entire unit. Optimal function is determined by coil function, damper stroke and jounce travel. moving the ride height adjusting spring perch 25mm high or 25mm lower degrades the performance of the entire unit, in part because of the changes made to the coil at rest.

Put a coil into a load cell. A typical measure of coil strength / rate is pounds per inch. Deviating from the sweet spot on the coilovers for best operation has made the coil looser by an inch / 25mm or tighter by an inch / 25mm. It isn't hard to do the mat given this information.

At Pedders we deal with 2 to 5mm of preload AT FULL DROOP. In a coilover that adjusts by spring perch the same measurement with be 10 TO 20 times that amount. As I said before, we used to make coilover that adjusted by spring perch. It was our best technology at the time. Now we use a true racing style coilover to maintain jounce / bound travel and coil pre-load regardless of ride height.

This pictures shows both the assembled and burst ZETA Rear Coilovers / Struts. There is preload in the OE assembly BEFORE it goes into the vehicle.



The same is true of the fronts.



Here is an absolute eXtreme coilover that we used to use. It adjusted ride height by raising or lowering the spring perch. It used a helper spring. It was better than the OE strut assembly but is no where near as good as the Xa or Supercar for all the reasons already listed in the thread.



The old style rear Xa for ZETA used a longer wind for the rear coil to avoid the helper / keeper spring. It still adjusted ride height by spring perch with all the associated negatives.



There is NO benefit to adjusting ride height by raising and lowering spring perches. There are ONLY negatives. That is why we developed our Xa range -- state-of-the-art technology with excellent ride quality and excellent performance. Our goal could not be met with the dated eXtreme technology or any system that required the spring perch movement for ride height adjustment.
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