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Old 08-28-2010, 01:13 PM   #101
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Jake is correct and without beating a dead horse, I think fbodfather has avoided answering the B pillar question completely re strength and weight. As the convertable unibody has now been totally reinforced, it seems possible to me that a true "hardtop" Camaro could be designed using this unibody. How about marketing it as an extra cost option/model just like the convertable ?
Hay, just like the old days (think retro)- A coupe, a hardtop, and a convertable.
Would I pay a couple thousand extra for a true "hardtop" Camaro ? You bet.
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Old 08-28-2010, 07:54 PM   #102
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Onward & Upward...

I agree, and after I thought about it a little more, and I came up with a few more ideas:

Why would anybody buy a Camaro over any other car? Think about it?

1. It is (in my opinion) the best looking, most timeless car ever made. Notice, I did not say, best looking muscle-car, or sports-car, but best looking car ever made!!!

2. Performance is amazing, and handling is very good. When I test drove it, I did not have a chance to push it, but apparently many people said is has a little understeer or oversteer and if it lost a few hundred pounds it should handle perfectly.

3. Fun, Fun, Fun. The car is so fun to drive. The noises it makes, and the overall vibe is just amazing!!!!

In the 1950s and 1960s American cars ruled the automotive world. The entire U.S. basically went into a depression after J.F.K. was shot. I think American's found solace in the original 1965 Mustang, and later in the original Camaro.

Once the 1970s hit, American car quality tanked completely. Remember the Pinto and the Gremlin? Detroit from that point forward turned into a profit-center that made garbage with zero integrity.

If this does not make sense to you, simply compare a 1959 Cadillac to a 1984 Cadillac Cimarron.

My point is that Detroit completely failed its consumers as well as itself with their short-term mind-set. Meanwhile, the German's and Japanese, more out of necessity, thought long-term with their automotive manufacturing and effectively competed against Detroit.


Reinventing The Muscle Car For the 21st Century


It is clear, at least to me, that Ford is responsible for reinventing the American muscle car, and thus creating the arena the new Camaro competes and performs in, and after all-Chevy was so bankrupt of ideas, it stopped making the Camaro for 8 years. I was never crazy about the first generation retro Ford Mustang, nor the second. They were novel, but I never considered buying one.

The current, and third generation of the retro Mustang is very impressive in many ways, but it can't hang or come even close to the Camaro in design. I realize the new Mustang has some advantages over the Camaro, but in my opinion the Camaro smokes it.

I think Ford made a huge mistake by overlooking the power and value of aesthetics. Ford even hired an Italian company to make the Mustang look as good as it could, and the Italians delivered, but Ford ignored the magnificent design they hired Giugiaro to create as a Mustang Concept in 2006 (as seen in the attached photos located at the bottom of this post).

And that is one of the things that Detroit does not get!!! And "What is the deal" (think Seinfeld moment) with American companies making amazing concept cars and NEVER bringing them to market!?!? Ironically, the Camaro Concept is the one exception to that rule and thank God!!! American's love and deeply appreciate great design. Actually, it has nothing to do with being American, people in general are hardwired to gravitate toward beauty and function.


Built To Last


People fall in love with cars, the way men fall in love with women, and ideally want something that is built to last. So let's fast forward to today with General Motors and the Camaro. Basically what is done is done. When they launch the Z28 and the Camaro they will be runaway hits, but that is not what this conversation is about.

Instead, this conversation is about what the next generation of the hardtop and convertible Camaro's will look like and how they will be built and priced. I am requesting, no, I am begging Chevy to rethink this whole "Affordable" thing? I genuinely understand how important it is to make something a good value, but as a value proposition, the new Camaro goes light years beyond.

The Camaro has the opportunity to take a huge step-up and seriously compete against mercedes and BMW. The Camaro already kicks-ass in acceleration and price. I mean, if you want to buy a Mercedes convertible that can do 0-60 in 4.5 you have do buy an AMG SL63 for $140,000!!!!!!

If want 0-60 in 4.2 seconds in a Merced Benz SL you have to buy a SL65 for $200,000. I am certain that if and when Chevy comes out with a Z28 Convertible, it will best the 0-60 of the $200,000 Mercedes SL65.

So what kind of price increases would we see if Chevy in their next generation Camaro stuck with the basic body-style but make the hardtop an open-air c-pillar, and removed a little more weight to give the car a perfect balance? Probably would not add more than $3000 to the price tag. It should also have a much better designed modern sunroof, like on a BMW 6 Series.

Some think with making the next generation a hard-top convertible that folds into the trunk like a Mercedes SL or even a BMW 3 series it will be too expensive. As a matter of fact, the BMW 3 Series HARDTOP CONVERTIBLE MSRP starts at only $45,000!!!!!

My point is that if the German's can deliver a hardtop convertible at $45,000 it should be a piece of cake for the American's.

My last point I want to touch upon is the interior design of the next generation Camaro. It should have the most beautiful, luxurious, comfortable cabin of any car made. The overall vibe should remain an homage to the original, and like with the current Camaro, the technology should me mostly invisible.

It must have features like climate-control, and GPS. It should also have heated and air-conditioned seats. Why? Because if you sit on a leather seat for a few hours, even with the air-conditioning on, your back naturally perspires and when you get out of the car, you're shirt is a little bit moist from perspiration since your back skin cannot breathe. Air-conditioned seats overcome this.

As I said before, get rid of the useless goofy handbrake, and put it where it belongs, on the floor. This idea of building an homage to the original 1969 has gone too far. 1969 was 41 years ago and things have evolved considerably.

To conclude, I will say I prey that GM and the Camaro team don't run the football down to the 1 yard line and stop like they always have before. Get the ball in the end-zone, score the touchdown, and take the Camaro to the Superbowl and win!!!!!

GM, this is your time to shine, so shine!!!!!!!!!!!

Jake

Quote:
Originally Posted by myold88 View Post
Jake is correct and without beating a dead horse, I think fbodfather has avoided answering the B pillar question completely re strength and weight. As the convertable unibody has now been totally reinforced, it seems possible to me that a true "hardtop" Camaro could be designed using this unibody. How about marketing it as an extra cost option/model just like the convertable ?
Hay, just like the old days (think retro)- A coupe, a hardtop, and a convertable.
Would I pay a couple thousand extra for a true "hardtop" Camaro ? You bet.
The 4 images below represent Ford's greatest blunder. In 2006 Ford commissioned an Italian designer named Giugiaro to redesign the Mustang and this was called the Mustang Concept. Guigiaro clearly delivered. Chevy should be thanking its lucky stars Ford was too stupid to incorporate this into the Mustang. If Ford had launched something that looked like this instead of its current design, it would be a whole different ballgame today.
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Last edited by Jake; 08-28-2010 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:17 PM   #103
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^^^ LOL ^^^

Man that stang looks like ass, looks like a Jetsons cartoon reject, couldn't pay me to drive it. That being said, I love all Camaros, 'CAUSE THEY'RE CAMAROS! Srrsly tho, I think the coupe certainly has stronger lines, however, I like GIRLS! Girls LOVE convertables. . . . don't really know if I'd buy a vert, all though, I am sure I will test drive one and consider it before I make a decision!
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:25 PM   #104
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Talking and

OH, and you're all welcome for my solid scientific formula incorporating a prioritizing methodology for the best possible outcome of desired results!

hehehehe lol

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Old 08-30-2010, 01:07 AM   #105
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Man those look horrible should've been a hardtop convertible
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:02 PM   #106
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I like this jake guy he's on the money with his arguments...but that mustang concept is hideous...the current mustang looks better than that design. Its simply not a muscle car

but jake i'm with you in terms of chevy could be a little more upscale

hell Ford is going that route and they are getting a ton of praise for it..their taurus is meant to compete with audi and their mustang interior is very nice and sync is awesome

gm get with the freaking times and offer a nav system please...some of us like it for the aesthetics...call me a snob or whatever but damnit at least give us an option
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:05 PM   #107
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however the rear of the concept mustang combined with the current front of the 2011 would have been a winner
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:41 PM   #108
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White & Tan looks clean, very "Lady Friendly" for the wives and GFs.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:55 PM   #109
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I always like the look of the convertible, but when the top is up I just don't know. Hey If anyone has a zune that they listen to in there car, if you could tell me why mine keeps fast forwarding threw each song that would be great. It would be great to be cruising around with the top down listening to good music.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:36 PM   #110
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Ford never commissioned that guy, iirc. He did that on his own with Ford's blessing. 90% of the stuff he did to that poor car would never make production.
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:28 AM   #111
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I like the Black in Black top..
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:03 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by 2001ragtop View Post
The Rag-top Camaros will disappear from the dealerships just as fast as they arrive. Most people don't buy them because they are Camaro enthusiasts. a 2011 Camaro convertible is more of a status symbol. or like an accessory. hey look at me i have a convertible camaro! non-enthusiasts just see it as another toy.
What gives you this omniscient insight on people's motivation for buying this car? To infer that I'm any less of a Camaro enthusiast because I buy a convertible version is bullsh**! I'm buying this specifically because it is a Camaro and I've owned Camaros and been a Camaro fan for d-e-c-a-d-e-s.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:28 AM   #113
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I agree - yuck on the tan top.
I like the black top.

I'm not a big convertible fan. Fun to ride in on occasion, but I wouldn't want to own one.
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:49 PM   #114
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Hi Mick,

I agree with you 100%

Jake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
What gives you this omniscient insight on people's motivation for buying this car? To infer that I'm any less of a Camaro enthusiast because I buy a convertible version is bullsh**! I'm buying this specifically because it is a Camaro and I've owned Camaros and been a Camaro fan for d-e-c-a-d-e-s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001ragtop
The Rag-top Camaros will disappear from the dealerships just as fast as they arrive. Most people don't buy them because they are Camaro enthusiasts. a 2011 Camaro convertible is more of a status symbol. or like an accessory. hey look at me i have a convertible camaro! non-enthusiasts just see it as another toy.
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