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Old 12-04-2008, 10:48 PM   #29
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It's a nice feeling to finally join a forum with fellow car lovers that actually examine the situation and give a semi-educated answer instead of flaming a post.

As i said previously it would be great to have the turbo 4, and from the sounds of it, it probably wouldn't make that much of a difference as to what i expected. Pardon my lack of knowledge on such subjects. However, in the near future i see hybrids becoming a big factor in car manufacturer line-ups (i believe GM has been quoted as saying they'll have 15 by i think 2012, not positive on the date). I Guess they could do a hybrid Camaro, however i have a couple concerns such as power (yes coming from the guy that just suggested a turbo 4, my apologies) giving it a puny v-6 and the fact that after X number of years you have to replace the battery on the hybrid (they aren't cheap) and on an already expensive car (probably looking at at least $32K CAD), with highway driving that isn't amazing, I'm thinking thats not a good choice in my books (feel free to correct me).

Which leads me to my next point, a Turbo diesel whether it be v-4 or v-6. From what i've read on them they have good all around fuel economy (both highway and city). But the main thing that i've seen is the turbo diesel has ALOT of torque compared to hp (again not sure why, please feel free to fill me in). I recently test drove a VW clean Diesel TDI, and it pulled away from a stoplight like a v-8, not kidding, it was probably the most fun i've had in a v-4 in a while (tho i like my cobalt). Of course this is all defendant on how good GM's diesel engines hold up, i believe the new cruze has one, lets hope for good things.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:07 PM   #30
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I own a 2008 HHR SS Turbo. It's a quick little car, but you have to beat the crap out of it to go. And it's only 3280 pounds. The V6 Camaro will be around 3800 pounds. I'm only getting 18mpg. I don't feel a 4cyl is a good idea for a Camaro. I think it would be disasterous!!
I have posted my theory on this before, but you have confirmed it.

Horsepower takes fuel, weight takes more fuel.

They were running test Holden Commodores (Un-rebadged Pontiac G8) with the turbo 4, but hopefully they'll forget it.

ps - Watching Jay Leno with Brian Williams. Jay drove his new ZR1 today, Brian was checking it out. Brian drove a Mustang GT. Jay snickered.
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:16 PM   #31
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ps - Watching Jay Leno with Brian Williams. Jay drove his new ZR1 today, Brian was checking it out. Brian drove a Mustang GT. Jay snickered.
Good find, im watching it right now, just gotta switch the auxilary back to tv.
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:30 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by VictoryRed08 View Post
It's a nice feeling to finally join a forum with fellow car lovers that actually examine the situation and give a semi-educated answer instead of flaming a post.

As i said previously it would be great to have the turbo 4, and from the sounds of it, it probably wouldn't make that much of a difference as to what i expected. Pardon my lack of knowledge on such subjects. However, in the near future i see hybrids becoming a big factor in car manufacturer line-ups (i believe GM has been quoted as saying they'll have 15 by i think 2012, not positive on the date). I Guess they could do a hybrid Camaro, however i have a couple concerns such as power (yes coming from the guy that just suggested a turbo 4, my apologies) giving it a puny v-6 and the fact that after X number of years you have to replace the battery on the hybrid (they aren't cheap) and on an already expensive car (probably looking at at least $32K CAD), with highway driving that isn't amazing, I'm thinking thats not a good choice in my books (feel free to correct me).

Which leads me to my next point, a Turbo diesel whether it be v-4 or v-6. From what i've read on them they have good all around fuel economy (both highway and city). But the main thing that i've seen is the turbo diesel has ALOT of torque compared to hp (again not sure why, please feel free to fill me in). I recently test drove a VW clean Diesel TDI, and it pulled away from a stoplight like a v-8, not kidding, it was probably the most fun i've had in a v-4 in a while (tho i like my cobalt). Of course this is all defendant on how good GM's diesel engines hold up, i believe the new cruze has one, lets hope for good things.

Thoughts?
Glad to have you here, too.

Check out the Lexus GS450H. Bad-ass hybrid. First performance oriented one.

Fact is, we're going electric. They are just getting going with the newer advanced technology, it will only advance with time.

Diesel. Yep. Plan on seeing more clean turbo diesels. Only reason there's not more now, is we are still trying to forget the smelly, noisy, piggy diesels of yesteryear.

Very intersting about your test drive of the VW. I need to do that.

As an LS3 lover, there is NO replacement for gobs of instant torque.
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:40 PM   #33
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I need to do that.

As an LS3 lover, there is NO replacement for gobs of instant torque.
I've only driven one vette b4, i believe it was 2003 had a bit wider of a turning radius than i was used to, however, lots of fun on the highway.
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:51 PM   #34
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It's a cool concept, but yeah from all the discussion we've had on it unfortunately with the weight of the Camaro, the fuel efficiency of the LNF probably would only be marginally better than the 3.6L DI VVT V6. And then it'd be slower... :(

I remember back when we were discussing this too. I was all for it until we basically had come to that conclusion. Although if it was priced at like 18-19k it'd be quite a bargain...
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:59 PM   #35
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Although if it was priced at like 18-19k it'd be quite a bargain...
Now that there would see big sales, from the prospective of a low paid college grad that'd be shopping in that market price range i'd scoop that up beats 3/4 of the other econoboxs out there.

With the way the market is going and the mass decline in car/truck sales i fear for the camaro's well being, heck, i fear for the automaker's well being as a whole.
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:04 AM   #36
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Yeah the problem with that too is that the cheapest vehicle that the LNF is in is the Cobalt SS/HHR SS. And I don't know what it is CDN $ but U.S.D the base price of an 09 Cobalt SS/TC is actually 24k....

Soo I don't even think it'd be possible for GM to even price the Camaro under 20k... Especially with all that it has. And heck when the V6 starts under what it costs for a Cobalt SS/TC, then I guess while it'd be cool, I think it's another reason why we won't be seeing the LNF in the Camaro...
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:19 AM   #37
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I don't care if they have a 4 cylinder with 4 turbos, i'll never drive one...
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:42 AM   #38
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^In my ignorance, i thought that way until I researched and found that the import crowd will never take a V6 over a turbo 4, even if the turbo 4 has slightly less power. The reason is aftermarket -- a fully built turbo 4 will take a fully built N/A V6.

I'm not saying i like the idea of a lower-powered turbo 4 over the DI V6 that's going in the 5th Gen, though. The reason I say that is because the aftermarket will support the V8 Camaro, because that's what most Camaro owners will use as a platform. In other words, Camaro owners would rather have a NA V8 at 500 rwhp than a turbo 4 at 500 rwhp. And, with very good reason that I won't get into, because that's the age-old import vs. domestic battle that's better on the streets and on the track than on some Internet message board.
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:54 AM   #39
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I have a special name for the Iron D.

The turbo 4 would not get mpg that much better than the V6, when you factor in the additional weight of a Camaro compared to a Solstice or Cobalt SS.

Don't expect to see the Iron D.
You are correct sir and who would want one anyways lol
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:56 AM   #40
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I own a 2008 HHR SS Turbo. It's a quick little car, but you have to beat the crap out of it to go. And it's only 3280 pounds. The V6 Camaro will be around 3800 pounds. I'm only getting 18mpg. I don't feel a 4cyl is a good idea for a Camaro. I think it would be disasterous!!
Dude, WTF are you doing to that car? I have a Supercharged Cobalt (only 200 lbs less thatn yours) and regularly get 27 around town, and as high as 37 on the highway (generally around 32 though). Do you just keep it at redline all day?
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:40 AM   #41
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^In my ignorance, i thought that way until I researched and found that the import crowd will never take a V6 over a turbo 4, even if the turbo 4 has slightly less power. The reason is aftermarket -- a fully built turbo 4 will take a fully built N/A V6.

I'm not saying i like the idea of a lower-powered turbo 4 over the DI V6 that's going in the 5th Gen, though. The reason I say that is because the aftermarket will support the V8 Camaro, because that's what most Camaro owners will use as a platform. In other words, Camaro owners would rather have a NA V8 at 500 rwhp than a turbo 4 at 500 rwhp. And, with very good reason that I won't get into, because that's the age-old import vs. domestic battle that's better on the streets and on the track than on some Internet message board.


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You are correct sir and who would want one anyways lol
I'd take a LNF powered Camaro if it cost under 20k.... But it wouldn't and the LNF isn't going into the Camaro anyways...

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Dude, WTF are you doing to that car? I have a Supercharged Cobalt (only 200 lbs less thatn yours) and regularly get 27 around town, and as high as 37 on the highway (generally around 32 though). Do you just keep it at redline all day?
I have the same ride as you and I don't get quite as well as you but I seem to average 23mpg's city, and around 33-36mpg's highway.

The HHR SS should be getting better gas mileage in terms of the LNF being more fuel efficent over our LSJ's... But I got 18 city before although I wasn't driving conservatively...

I don't think there's really any more point in arguing in this however because the LNF won't be going in the Camaro. It could find its way in the Pontiac G8 but it's not going into the Camaro and I'm sure GM has come to this realization way before we have for the sake of the reasons I and everyone else has explained.
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:48 AM   #42
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Hey guys,
Sure the camaro isn't what some people call a commuting car but why not? I want something that looks amazing and delivers a fun ride with a low gas price t
If i get the camaro in the near future it will be my daily driver, I just can't afford it any other way.

We have exhausted the thought of a 4 cyl camaro, and quite frankly, the four cyl didn't get enough advantage over the six in mpg to justify having the option.
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