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Old 12-06-2008, 10:36 PM   #1
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Save money, Don't get a crate engine! ...

Hello! All ... here in New York I went to the "corvette doctor" in east hampton to see about the LS3 and LS7 upgrades and such, he determines that a LS3 is a very easy and cheap few mods, and it will be right up there with the LS7. Although he is not a GM employee, he thinks that some of these minor mods all of which I forgot as soon as I paid him for my 3rd gen that I was picking up with a LS1, will be the differece between a Z28 and a SS.

Thats just my two cents for you. Well his actually.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:38 AM   #2
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Hello! All ... here in New York I went to the "corvette doctor" in east hampton to see about the LS3 and LS7 upgrades and such, he determines that a LS3 is a very easy and cheap few mods, and it will be right up there with the LS7. Although he is not a GM employee, he thinks that some of these minor mods all of which I forgot as soon as I paid him for my 3rd gen that I was picking up with a LS1, will be the differece between a Z28 and a SS.

Thats just my two cents for you. Well his actually.
Yeah, the new LS9 motor in the ZR1 is a LS3 with different internal an a S/C.
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:07 PM   #3
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I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS.


People just don't listen.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:40 PM   #4
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I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS.


People just don't listen.
Most people that are new to forums don't know how to use the search functions.

I have been part of a few motorcycle forums. You get the core guys like you, that have been around, the new guys to this forum like me, the new people to forums all together, then the young new people that just like to cause problems and argue about everything.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:50 PM   #5
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Most people that are new to forums don't know how to use the search functions.

I have been part of a few motorcycle forums. You get the core guys like you, that have been around, the new guys to this forum like me, the new people to forums all together, then the young new people that just like to cause problems and argue about everything.

I find the problem is a lot of people are trying to put together builds without really knowing much about cars or seeking professional advice. If just 20% of the people here who go "I want a hot cam to keep my factory warranty" or "LS7/9 in a Camaro, I want to do an engine swap!!!" actually knew what you can do with an LS3, how much money a crate motor build in a new car actually costs, or just bothered to call a shop with a strong GM EFI reputation, they'd be much better educated and able to disseminate this information to the rest of the board through their more knowledgeable posts and we'd all be better off because there'd be a larger wealth of GOOD information here.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:52 PM   #6
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Plus, all these guys, I bet most of them are all pipe dreams anyways. All talk.
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSxJunkie View Post
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS.


People just don't listen.
its great isnt it...lol


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Most people that are new to forums don't know how to use the search functions.

I have been part of a few motorcycle forums. You get the core guys like you, that have been around, the new guys to this forum like me, the new people to forums all together, then the young new people that just like to cause problems and argue about everything.
he's only been here 2 months more than you....lol

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Plus, all these guys, I bet most of them are all pipe dreams anyways. All talk.
most all of it is.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:44 PM   #8
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its great isnt it...lol




he's only been here 2 months more than you....lol



most all of it is.
Oh yeah, I didn't notice that, I was looking at post count, Now you are a constant
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:48 PM   #9
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I find the problem is a lot of people are trying to put together builds without really knowing much about cars or seeking professional advice. If just 20% of the people here who go "I want a hot cam to keep my factory warranty" or "LS7/9 in a Camaro, I want to do an engine swap!!!" actually knew what you can do with an LS3, how much money a crate motor build in a new car actually costs, or just bothered to call a shop with a strong GM EFI reputation, they'd be much better educated and able to disseminate this information to the rest of the board through their more knowledgeable posts and we'd all be better off because there'd be a larger wealth of GOOD information here.
i just called our local speed shop last week asking about stuff i could do to my truck. i found out pretty much anything beyond what i've already done will kill drivabilty & gas mileage. the guys there were really helpful.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:04 PM   #10
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Oh yeah, I didn't notice that, I was looking at post count, Now you are a constant
well, thats the thing. (to go off topic a little) I could care less about the number of someone's posts, I care more about the content of their posts.

Junkie hasn't been here a real long time, but his posts are usually top notch and full of great info. and when there is something that is disputable, its normally nothing that has much point in the overall point of things.

but back to the topic at hand.

i have fully accepted that there are plenty of people out there with more money than sense and want to do _________________ to their car. A lot of them dont have the mechanical insight to do things for themselves and they pay someone else to do the work for them. and that's fine. thats why mechanics have a job.

but as LSxJunkie said. I ask EVERYONE who wants to modify their car/motor/trans/rear/whatever, do some research before setting out on a project. it will save you time and money and you will be better off in the long run as you might learn a few new things in doing so as well.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:40 PM   #11
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Anyone who pulls and LS3 to swap is crazy IMO, swap the cam and put some LT headers on it or a Magnacharger.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:57 PM   #12
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Anyone who pulls and LS3 to swap is crazy IMO, swap the cam and put some LT headers on it or a Magnacharger.

A good cam and headers should be enough to get to 500hp me thinks , with a SUPERCHARGER you would be north of 600 hp depending on the unit the sky is the limit but I don't think the Camaros drive train can handle much more then 600 without being beefed up but I could be wrong I am no expert in this matter , the Shelby gt500 seems able to go over 700hp with stock drivetrain as some members here on this forum have rides like that
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:01 PM   #13
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A good cam and headers should be enough to get to 500hp me thinks , with a SUPERCHARGER you would be north of 600 hp depending on the unit the sky is the limit but I don't think the Camaros drive train can handle much more then 600 without being beefed up but I could be wrong I am no expert in this matter , the Shelby gt500 seems able to go over 700hp with stock drivetrain as some members here on this forum have rides like that
before this gets carried away and people start a flame war about the drivetrain being capable of holding power, the drivetrain has been tested to ~700-750hp
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Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
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Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
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I piss excellence
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Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:03 PM   #14
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How About NO Gas?

OK, Here I go stepping out on the ice again. I have seen what Nitrous Oxide does to a car as far as increasing its power, but what else besides the kit is needed for the motor? Do you think the stock LS3 will handle a gas kit?
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:14 PM   #15
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before this gets carried away and people start a flame war about the drivetrain being capable of holding power, the drivetrain has been tested to ~700-750hp
WOW that's AWESOME now I am totally sold on a new SS but hmmm I wonder if they will still make the Legendary Z28 again , damn it's hard to decide if to wait for a car that may never see the light of day or pre order a SS now
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:21 PM   #16
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before this gets carried away and people start a flame war about the drivetrain being capable of holding power, the drivetrain has been tested to ~700-750hp
We have that on word of mouth alone. There aren't many stock drivetrains out there that can take 650whp. At the very least, I know you'll be needing to do clutch. You'll possibly stubs and I wouldn't do holeshots with that much power on stock half shafts.

The C6s like to snap driver's side output shafts on DRs, even around only 420whp. On the chance that the Camaro's drivetrain is that much stronger, I would't safely say beyond 500whp. Having put 750hp through a drivetrain and having used 750 hp are two different things. Drag racing is much harder, obviously, on stuff than street driving or road coursing. If engineers at GM flogged a car around Milford making 650hp at the wheels, there's nothing to say that on a sticky tire that car won't break everything from the flywheel back at the tree.


But this is all speculation, because nobody has gone and done it yet. In the first year, the folks on the board with access to more funds will be exploring the limits of stock components and we will, by their misfortune, learn a lot about where the weaknesses are. From there, the aftermarket will (eventually) design and produce what is needed. But until then, we can't safely say. I prefer to err on the side of caution though.
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:22 PM   #17
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OK, Here I go stepping out on the ice again. I have seen what Nitrous Oxide does to a car as far as increasing its power, but what else besides the kit is needed for the motor? Do you think the stock LS3 will handle a gas kit?
while this belongs in a new thread, ill go ahead and give you some quick info.

the LS3 (along with any motor) will be able to take NO2 as long as the system is set up properly. that being said, a friend of mine has a nice little writeup on no2
http://www.z28.com/forum/showthread....=nitrous+oxide

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WOW that's AWESOME now I am totally sold on a new SS but hmmm I wonder if they will still make the Legendary Z28 again , damn it's hard to decide if to wait for a car that may never see the light of day or pre order a SS now
order an SS now, then trade it in when the Z28 comes out.
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Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
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I piss excellence
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Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:46 PM   #18
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Thanks CamaroSpike. I will read on.

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Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
while this belongs in a new thread, ill go ahead and give you some quick info.

the LS3 (along with any motor) will be able to take NO2 as long as the system is set up properly. that being said, a friend of mine has a nice little writeup on no2
http://www.z28.com/forum/showthread....=nitrous+oxide



order an SS now, then trade it in when the Z28 comes out.
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Old 12-07-2008, 10:35 PM   #19
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before this gets carried away and people start a flame war about the drivetrain being capable of holding power, the drivetrain has been tested to ~700-750hp
Dang, I was going to try and get 751HP

BTW, one of the cars built to handle close to that kinda HP........Saleen S7.....

Saleen S7 V8 750HP 700 ft lbs torque 10.5@145.0 1/4 mile $580,000

http://www.saleen.com/saleen_s7_performance.htm
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:11 PM   #20
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I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS.


People just don't listen.
I've been listening. I'm actually looking forward to some instructional threads and dynos so that I can take good advice from members of the forum to make my Camaro more beastly.
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:37 AM   #21
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A good cam and headers should be enough to get to 500hp me thinks , with a SUPERCHARGER you would be north of 600 hp depending on the unit the sky is the limit but I don't think the Camaros drive train can handle much more then 600 without being beefed up but I could be wrong I am no expert in this matter , the Shelby gt500 seems able to go over 700hp with stock drivetrain as some members here on this forum have rides like that
Yeah, but these motors are forged from the factory. LS3s have hypereutectic (I think I spelled that wrong...) pistons, powder metal rods, and cast iron crank. Although I know I've read and heard about many stock crank builds in that same HP range, those rods and pistsons aren't going to live long under those conditions that 500 engine can put up with. LS9s and LSAs have forged steel cranks and beefier rods and pistons with oil squirters for the pistons (in addition to a bunch of other little goodies) to support their numbers for years of trouble-free service. I'm just saying comparing the 5.4 in a 500 and our LS3 isn't too fair under these circumstances, IMVHO.

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We have that on word of mouth alone. There aren't many stock drivetrains out there that can take 650whp. At the very least, I know you'll be needing to do clutch. You'll possibly stubs and I wouldn't do holeshots with that much power on stock half shafts.

The C6s like to snap driver's side output shafts on DRs, even around only 420whp. On the chance that the Camaro's drivetrain is that much stronger, I would't safely say beyond 500whp. Having put 750hp through a drivetrain and having used 750 hp are two different things. Drag racing is much harder, obviously, on stuff than street driving or road coursing. If engineers at GM flogged a car around Milford making 650hp at the wheels, there's nothing to say that on a sticky tire that car won't break everything from the flywheel back at the tree.

But this is all speculation, because nobody has gone and done it yet. In the first year, the folks on the board with access to more funds will be exploring the limits of stock components and we will, by their misfortune, learn a lot about where the weaknesses are. From there, the aftermarket will (eventually) design and produce what is needed. But until then, we can't safely say. I prefer to err on the side of caution though.
I think I remember reading that an engineer said the rear end of Camaro was tested up to 600+ horsepower, and that's find and good on street tires, because it'll just blow 'em off, but like 'junkie said, when you start to hook, that changes things. M6 LS1 F-bodies break rear ends like it's their job when they start to hook up off the line, and I know of even a few stock-plus horse A4s breaking their rear ends too. Hopefully, the advances in GM's staggerred axles will correct the hop, and keep the car together. We'll find that out soon

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I've been listening. I'm actually looking forward to some instructional threads and dynos so that I can take good advice from members of the forum to make my Camaro more beastly.
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Old 12-08-2008, 12:28 PM   #22
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Yeah, but these motors are forged from the factory. LS3s have hypereutectic (I think I spelled that wrong...) pistons, powder metal rods, and cast iron crank. Although I know I've read and heard about many stock crank builds in that same HP range, those rods and pistsons aren't going to live long under those conditions that 500 engine can put up with. LS9s and LSAs have forged steel cranks and beefier rods and pistons with oil squirters for the pistons (in addition to a bunch of other little goodies) to support their numbers for years of trouble-free service. I'm just saying comparing the 5.4 in a 500 and our LS3 isn't too fair under these circumstances, IMVHO.
if i end up doing any extensive modification (TT setup, methanol, etc) i will probably replace the internals with ones from an LSA/LS9 for those very reasons. hopefully the stock rear will hold, but only time (or one crazy launch) will tell.
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Old 12-08-2008, 12:34 PM   #23
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I think I remember reading that an engineer said the rear end of Camaro was tested up to 600+ horsepower, and that's find and good on street tires, because it'll just blow 'em off, but like 'junkie said, when you start to hook, that changes things.

M6 LS1 F-bodies break rear ends like it's their job when they start to hook up off the line, and I know of even a few stock-plus horse A4s breaking their rear ends too. Hopefully, the advances in GM's staggerred axles will correct the hop, and keep the car together. We'll find that out soon
axle flex sucks on 10bolts.... trust me...lol
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Old 12-08-2008, 12:43 PM   #24
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axle flex sucks on 10bolts.... trust me...lol
I hope the 5th gen rear has a ring gear around 9" in diameter,the 3rd and 4th gens had a weak 7.5" 10 bolt.
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:46 PM   #25
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Plus, all these guys, I bet most of them are all pipe dreams anyways. All talk.
most of the internet is
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