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Suspension / Brakes / Chassis All suspension, brakes and chassis discussions.

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Old 09-21-2010, 09:57 AM   #26
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Nicely done... thanks!
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:29 PM   #27
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Great post on the 2010 SS Suspension!
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:48 PM   #28
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Just to kick in on the products made out of Chinesium...

I know a Motorola engineer who's CONSTANTLY on the phone (ironically) with his Hong Kong counterparts on quality issues with their radio and cell phone technology. He said that the control of the quality is the issue, as was stated earlier. It's not that the Chinese CAN'T make quality stuff, it's just there's a whole lot of "what's in it for me besides 3 bucks per day?" mentality. He said a lot of workers that make the parts, can't even afford to buy any of the finished products. So if there's no "skin in the game", or ownership sort of feeling, so there's not an emphasis for them to be enticed to do well. Getting by just enough to get your paycheck is fine by a lot of Chinese workers. Hopefully that will change.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el ess X View Post
Just to kick in on the products made out of Chinesium...

I know a Motorola engineer who's CONSTANTLY on the phone (ironically) with his Hong Kong counterparts on quality issues with their radio and cell phone technology. He said that the control of the quality is the issue, as was stated earlier. It's not that the Chinese CAN'T make quality stuff, it's just there's a whole lot of "what's in it for me besides 3 bucks per day?" mentality. He said a lot of workers that make the parts, can't even afford to buy any of the finished products. So if there's no "skin in the game", or ownership sort of feeling, so there's not an emphasis for them to be enticed to do well. Getting by just enough to get your paycheck is fine by a lot of Chinese workers. Hopefully that will change.
The question is why? The easy answer is price. It goes much deeper.

If you look at the wages being paid in the newest USA based import plants you will find they are paying fast food wages to non-union auto workers. The ONLY USA based import automotive plant to make the top ten in the Harbour Report was the now defunct GM / Toyota NUMMI plant staffed by UAW workers. The sad fact is we have imported a lower standard of living and moved jobs autoworker jobs from the unions. There was no job growth with the import auto manufacturers, just relocation of automotive jobs at a lower pay rate and people getting by just enough from pay check to pay check.

Then we have a slew of environmental laws that make manufacturing more expensive in the USA than most every other country in the world. Add to that labor laws and taxes that make businesses more expensive to operate in the USA than most any where else in the world and you have the conditions for even less manufacturing in the USA.

Excuse me while I jack this thread to promote new tax and trade polices for the USA. As long as the government gives huge tax incentives to foreign companies moving into the USA while raising taxes on existing USA based businesses you will continue to see more jobs in manufacturing lost to foreign countries. Add to that the OPEN USA markets and compare them to foreign markets that add taxes, tariffs or onerous inspections to imports that make it next to impossible to sell our goods in foreign markets and more jobs are lost.

The debate should not be focused on the quality of parts made outside the USA. The debate and criticism should be directed at the last 30 years of government policy under both Republicans and Democrats that have gutted manufacturing in the USA while opening our markets to every country for imports at the direct expense of the American working men and women. There is an election just over a month away. While it is important to focus on domestic issues in this dire economy, we should demand the debate include a complete overhaul of our tax and trade structure. Only when changes are made to these policies will you see a return of domestic manufacturing.


Sorry for the rant. I'll go back on topic. Here is a link to The Book on 5th Gen Suspension.
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:59 PM   #30
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Very informative writeup!!
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:47 PM   #31
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I wish gm would switch back to SLA supension... I think they could re tweak and make better than it ever was and the could streamline the process and make it work over more platforms, And the weight you could cut using tubular arms they could defiantly mass produced via the brazen method of welding i.e. drop in sold weld material throw in jig thrown and a 2000 degree flame, heat temper done....... if they don't want to use the brazen method and kill the heat treating and used robots to do it you could make them almost as quick maybe what 1 min longer via robot? than stamping?
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
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I wish gm would switch back to SLA supension... I think they could re tweak and make better than it ever was and the could streamline the process and make it work over more platforms, And the weight you could cut using tubular arms they could defiantly mass produced via the brazen method of welding i.e. drop in sold weld material throw in jig thrown and a 2000 degree flame, heat temper done....... if they don't want to use the brazen method and kill the heat treating and used robots to do it you could make them almost as quick maybe what 1 min longer via robot? than stamping?
The 5th Gen is the best handling Camaro GM has built. Why do I say that? because the best of the best Pro Touring Cars with are being out performed by Pedders Camaro on stock 5th Gen arms. While everyone likes to point to the increased weight of the 5th Gen IRS, no one seems to pay much attention to the built in strength and safety of the 5th Gen.

5th Gen Build Strength / Crash Test Thread

Here are the pictures from that thread.










The crash test videos are dramatic and I recommend you watch them. For performance all I can say is it doesn't get much better than this.

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Old 09-27-2010, 05:06 PM   #33
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Pete don't forget that the protouring cars are all driven by the car owners, engineers, and builders not top notch professional drivers. Not trying to take anything away from your car or the protouring guys. Just saying.
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:26 PM   #34
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Pete don't forget that the protouring cars are all driven by the car owners, engineers, and builders not top notch professional drivers. Not trying to take anything away from your car or the protouring guys. Just saying.
That is true, but two of them were good enough to be faster than we are at the Optima Challenge even with Paul Tracy driving our car. We made some revisions to the car because of that experience with the Pro Touring drivers. Some of the Pro Touring Drivers are very good.

Drivers do make a difference and that is why we posted the results of race cars and other professionally driven super cars at Gingerman in addition to the Pro Touring results. The 5th Gen suspension design can hold its own against most anything -- with a little help from Pedders.
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Old 10-02-2010, 03:22 AM   #35
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A well derserved thank you

To "frankbeans":

We are grateful for you taking the time and generosity to share this important piece of information at the forum.

I do not know if anyone else said thanks already.

If so, anyway, thank you again then!!


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Old 10-02-2010, 03:39 AM   #36
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A LONG IGNORED FACT

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The 5th Gen is the best handling Camaro GM has built. Why do I say that? because the best of the best Pro Touring Cars with are being out performed by Pedders Camaro on stock 5th Gen arms. While everyone likes to point to the increased weight of the 5th Gen IRS, no one seems to pay much attention to the built in strength and safety of the 5th Gen.
JusticePete:

Here you are explaining with visible proof what is obvious to any one who has driven or owned a 4th generation CAMARO/FIREBIRD: the 2010 is a structurally solid and stronger car than any of its predecessors!!

Perhaps is structurally stronger than any other pony/muscle car ever made!!

To achieve this a manufacturer has about two viable options, in my uneducated opinion: (1) make a heavier car using ordinary materials or (2) keep the car light and allow its price to get astronomical by employing expensive lightweight materials (titanium body/frame anyone???) and/or expensive metal processing techniques.

There is a third option of making a car as ugly as sin with supporting brackets, frame connectors, and so on added left & right, but let's not go there.

Yet, most people (who don't even own the car) just complain about the weight ad infinitum.

Unfortunately, few people appear to have read your enlightening entry, so we will have to keep reading about the "heavy" character of our beloved car.

Thank you very much anyway for some great pics!!!

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Old 10-02-2010, 01:01 PM   #37
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thanks for the post. Learned a lot =D
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Old 10-02-2010, 04:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Flash View Post
JusticePete:

Here you are explaining with visible proof what is obvious to any one who has driven or owned a 4th generation CAMARO/FIREBIRD: the 2010 is a structurally solid and stronger car than any of its predecessors!!

Perhaps is structurally stronger than any other pony/muscle car ever made!!

To achieve this a manufacturer has about two viable options, in my uneducated opinion: (1) make a heavier car using ordinary materials or (2) keep the car light and allow its price to get astronomical by employing expensive lightweight materials (titanium body/frame anyone???) and/or expensive metal processing techniques.

There is a third option of making a car as ugly as sin with supporting brackets, frame connectors, and so on added left & right, but let's not go there.

Yet, most people (who don't even own the car) just complain about the weight ad infinitum.

Unfortunately, few people appear to have read your enlightening entry, so we will have to keep reading about the "heavy" character of our beloved car.

Thank you very much anyway for some great pics!!!

The Flash
Great sig pic!



Thanks for reading.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:28 AM   #39
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You delivered a valuable piece of material!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Great sig pic!

Thanks for reading.
Au contraire, JusticePete!! : Thank you for posting this valuable info!!


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