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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 09-16-2010, 12:02 AM   #1
ducatisl
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Thumbs up Review: 473 rwhp Mike Norris Motorsports cam


 
Video of idle: http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/6382/sam1716.mp4

Okay I really didn't know about Mike Norris Motorsports until after I setup an appointment and then weeks later, my girlfriend and I go to LS Fest and visit the Wiseco, Comp Cams, and GMPP manufacturer's tents. There, just a couple days before I dropped the car off at Mike Norris' Indy shop, I was completely allayed of any fears by each of those representitives talking about how good Mike Norris' work is. So as a mechanical engineer who struggles to let ANYONE touch his car, this was great news.

The pragmatics of a cam install situation are that if a tuner has been installing the same cam with great success for years, then obviously he's got the computer tuning down pat. Even the Wiseco piston guy said Mike would already have HP Tuner files, massaged for the past few YEARS already on LS3's, that would get him 98% to a complete tuning solution. Far quicker than I could do on my own, and of course as an engineer, I will likely break something along the way, hah! So I bow to experience.

What initially clicked with me and Mike was that after I scoured the various Corvette and other LS-oriented forums (as C5 is somewhat lacking in depth and consistency for hardcore LS technical content due to it's youth), I found that a cam around low 220's on the intake with an overall overlap of around 2 to 3 degrees (@ 0.050) which would correspond to an LSA of around 114-115 would be an excellent compromise between a NA or FI setup. Since my goal is a Whipple before next spring's racing season, these cam characteristics are what I felt were appropriate for my goals. In one of Mike's initial PM's with me, he stated he'd been using a 224/236 114 LSA cam for several years with success on Magnacharger LS3 cars.



The previous setup:
  1. Stainless Works long tube headers (2" primaries),
  2. Catless, 3" exhaust, 4 Magnaflow mufflers (2 round, 2 oval), Tru-x xpipe,
  3. AEM in-the-fender cold air intake, Spectre bellmouth, SaxonPC flow straightener,
  4. ******* tune
Mike Norris Motorsports work:
  1. MNM custom cam (224/236 114+4),
  2. Dual valvesprings, lightweight retainers, moly pushrods,
  3. VMax CNC ported throttle body,
  4. Dyno tune (with Mike's mature LS3, well-tested HP Tuner work)
Dyno history, all Dynojets:

370 rwhp - stock, in FL (Adam's Automotive, Crestview, FL)
412 rwhp - previous setup, in FL
402 rwhp - previous setup, in IN (MNM, Indianapolis, IN)
473 rwhp - Mike Norris's work


Now for those about to talk trash about dyno differences, the FL numbers are SAE, so maybe the altitude difference is a bigger player...about 450 ft is my guess.

Qualitatively, I cannot begin to describe the superlatives of this install: drivability is almost stocklike, on the throttle, outsiders are treated to quite the cam'd car symphony, and of course, at idle, the lope, especially on the outside, is just pure music . If anyone in the panhandle area wants one for their Camaro, I'd certainly be willing to let you hear/see the one in my LS3.

473 rwhp...nice! Thanks again Mike!
 
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:12 AM   #2
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what kinda hp gains does the ported throttle body get? i just did a cam this week with long tubes and stock intake and underdrive pully and i am at 453WRHP
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:18 AM   #3
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you got good numbers, but i like the cam to be a little louder
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:26 AM   #4
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FOUR mufflers are in my setup.

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you got good numbers, but i like the cam to be a little louder
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:30 AM   #5
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I thought Mike said 8 rwhp realistically for the Camaro with Corvette LS3's gaining a little more, but he can comment on that. For $150, that's 8 inexpensive rwhp.

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what kinda hp gains does the ported throttle body get? i just did a cam this week with long tubes and stock intake and underdrive pully and i am at 453WRHP
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:42 AM   #6
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the cam that i got in the car is a 227/235 .617/.621 113lsa does 453rwhp sound bout right? or does anyone think we can squeeze more power from the tune/
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:40 AM   #7
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What is the lift on this cam?
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:37 AM   #8
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0.610/0.608
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:35 PM   #9
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Yes, the tune, and maybe a throttle body...you've certainly got more duration and lift, and at that LSA, you've got more overlap as well. Is the cam advanced or straight up? What timing and AFR are you at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay11 View Post
the cam that i got in the car is a 227/235 .617/.621 113lsa does 453rwhp sound bout right? or does anyone think we can squeeze more power from the tune/
Edit: I saw that you don't have a cold air intake, so there's that as well. Sounds like your 453 is about right then. Only thing left is to...SPEND MORE MONEY!! LOL!

Last edited by ducatisl; 09-16-2010 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:03 PM   #10
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that looks like a good street NA cam. congrats on some NICE numbers...
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatisl View Post
Yes, the tune, and maybe a throttle body...you've certainly got more duration and lift, and at that LSA, you've got more overlap as well. Is the cam advanced or straight up? What timing and AFR are you at?



Edit: I saw that you don't have a cold air intake, so there's that as well. Sounds like your 453 is about right then. Only thing left is to...SPEND MORE MONEY!! LOL!
really dont know full details about the tune.. i am gonna be getting EFI LIVE soon.. so ill beable to access the tune and see excatly were everything is set at..... if i get a new throttle body will i need to retune the car? the shop that did it said it was baiscally a mail order tune soo it didnt sound like he really messed with it that much...thats y im curious to see how much more potential i have in the motor with the set up now.....im not very tune savy so iv been doing alotta reasearch and stuff on it...man its a lotta stuff to learn
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatisl View Post
FOUR mufflers are in my setup.
idk why you dont want that thing to sound with making it loud.... thats what people like
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
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idk why you dont want that thing to sound with making it loud.... thats what people like
heck ya...i have LTs and catted mids and resinators... its loud as HECK.... soooo awesome
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:24 AM   #14
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I drive up from Florida to Indiana several times a year, and in a few months am headed to California for a couple months of work, so being in a 110+ db metal box for 20+ hours is something I want to avoid. Working around aircraft engines for a couple decades puts me in the frame of mind of not acquiring tinnitus from the workplace, so acquiring it from my own personal vehicle would be just plain stupid. Even with the extra mufflers (but no cats), it's still ALOT louder than my coworkers Borla S-type catback which is oddly ALOT louder than a SLP long tube header w/3-inch catback system I've heard locally. Just wait till you get a ringing in the ears that won't seem to go away....

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idk why you dont want that thing to sound with making it loud.... thats what people like
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatisl View Post
I drive up from Florida to Indiana several times a year, and in a few months am headed to California for a couple months of work, so being in a 110+ db metal box for 20+ hours is something I want to avoid. Working around aircraft engines for a couple decades puts me in the frame of mind of not acquiring tinnitus from the workplace, so acquiring it from my own personal vehicle would be just plain stupid. Even with the extra mufflers (but no cats), it's still ALOT louder than my coworkers Borla S-type catback which is oddly ALOT louder than a SLP long tube header w/3-inch catback system I've heard locally. Just wait till you get a ringing in the ears that won't seem to go away....
right on...dont bame you there....the guy i bought my LTs from sold them cuz it was to loud he put the stock manifolds back on...its all preference......
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:21 PM   #16
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Thanks for the kind words ducatisl, glad she worked out well for you. I was a bit surprised by the numbers, but she did drive very nice and the sound is just about perfect.

It is very satisfying to hear that you got some good feedback for myself and the shop from some well respected folks for sure. Glad they made you feel comfortable. I guess I will have to send them their monthly checks

On the down side, you used some pretty big multi-syllable words that had me looking for a dictionary

Enjoy and let me know for sure on the clutch. Talk to you soon and have a great weekend.

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Old 09-18-2010, 12:40 PM   #17
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Mike -

Glad to see you are still pumping out the HP up there in Indiana !!!

Hope everything is going well for ya...
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:59 PM   #18
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Definitely still on the for the clutch install, so don't schedule someone else in that time slot!

Pretty sure I'm going to go with a Mcleod RXT twin disk clutch and if you can do the GForce axles at the same time, that would be great.

Btw, I DID beat my friend's Evo MR at O'Reilly the night I picked up my car from your shop However, the next morning, I'm not sure if she was being passive-agressive or not, but his wife backs up into my Camaro on her way into work and put a little scrape onto the front bumper cover

Oh, btw, I got the exhaust fixed this morning, so no more banging around underneath, and I can finally hear the valvetrain. You're right, it's not bad and does make it questionable to install the Yella Terra rockers.

Thanks again, and see you in a few weeks.

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Thanks for the kind words ducatisl, glad she worked out well for you. I was a bit surprised by the numbers, but she did drive very nice and the sound is just about perfect.

It is very satisfying to hear that you got some good feedback for myself and the shop from some well respected folks for sure. Glad they made you feel comfortable. I guess I will have to send them their monthly checks

On the down side, you used some pretty big multi-syllable words that had me looking for a dictionary

Enjoy and let me know for sure on the clutch. Talk to you soon and have a great weekend.

Mike Norris
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:25 AM   #19
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473 is great for that set-up. I just had mine tuned, cammed, kooks headers, corsa sport exhaust, k&n air filter, pulleys, and the smaller stuff to go with it (rods/wires/plugs/springs). I had it done at a place just outside of Houston, Texas called G-Force Motorsports. I had done tons of research like you did for local area shops to give my new baby to. G-Force was given the nod and some past customers bragged that they have the best tunes in Texas. I only expected the car to come in the 460 to 470 range on the dyno with this basic set up (stage 2 on their website at gforcetx.com). The dyno came back at 483 rwhp on a very hot day down here in Texas. I was blown away and I believe the guys at the shop were also a little shocked. But again, I think if you are getting more than 460 for this set-up and can keep the cars normal type driveability (to extreme of cam would kill this), you have been well taken care of by the shop/mechanic. Congrats. on the 473, once again, thats great.
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:04 PM   #20
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It was nice meeting you yesterday duc, would have liked to go for a ride in your car, maybe some other time. You make me want to go ahead and order my cam and start modding the maro before the desert.
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:09 PM   #21
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Wagner: Yep, there is talk on 'vette forums about how 500'ish RWHP NA is possible with a very drivable LS3. You ought to throw on a VMax throttle body...maybe get it up to 490 RWHP. Do you know what your cam specs are?

Smoky: Anytime, but I must warn you, after hearing and riding in it, you'll just want to do it that much sooner. If you're doing one of those short 2 or 3 month AFSOC deployments, I'd go ahead and spend the money. But, if you're in for one of those year long stints, I'd certainly wait :(
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:03 PM   #22
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what were the SAE numbers?
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:15 PM   #23
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About 2% less as I recall for SAE.

In Florida, same Dynojet model, the baseline SAE was 4.5% higher than the one in Indy....
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:41 AM   #24
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Hey speedster, still doing quite well up here. I keep debating back and forth on hiring some help. Hope all is good your way.

Looking forward to seeing you again ducatisl, just give me a heads up ASAP on what clutch for sure

The SAE numbers were 463/427 on my dyno and the base SAE numbers were 392/392. Back when I was in FL and after I sold my large shop, I did a comparison of my older Dynojet to a couple of the other units around town. My Dynojet showed about 2-3 percent lower so I began using the STD numbers, but I also give the SAE numbers if requested.

I would also be curious what the cam specs are for the G-Force Stg 2 setup.

Have a good one all.

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Old 09-20-2010, 07:07 AM   #25
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nice #'s
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