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Old 09-20-2010, 09:21 PM   #1
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Motor Trend: ZR1 vs 911 Turbo



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A few more facts to twist your synapses: The Porsche weighs exactly 3500 pounds and makes 500 horsepower. That's a computationally easy-to-figure 7 pounds per horsepower. The Corvette, on the other hand, weighs just 3329 pounds and makes 638 horsepower or 5.2 pounds per pony, a clear advantage. Yet the Vette takes a relatively leisurely 3.5 seconds to crack 60 mph and 11.5 seconds to run the quarter mile. Not only all that, but the Corvette is still half a second behind the Porsche at 100 mph (7.1 seconds versus 7.6).


The Porsche's laws-of-physics-defying, catapult-like capabilities can come from only one place: traction. The 3.8-liter twin-turbo flat-six routes all its power to all four wheels, whereas the ZR1 has to make do with just two. True, the 335/25/20 Michelins on the ZR1's rear-wheels do provide more than 2 feet of rotating rubber, but the Chevy's just not as good at hooking up as Stuttgart's four wheels driven approach. After digesting the numbers, we began referring to the 911 Turbo as "Baby Veyron."

While the Corvette's launch mode provided a succession of very easy takeoffs at a governed 4000 rpm, we were able to achieve a slightly faster result (0.1 second better) with everything switched off, while launching the ZR1 from 1800 rpm. It did, however, take several aborted, tire-smoking attempts to nail it. The Porsche requires about 4000 rpm and a fast side-step of the clutch pedal to hit such audacious numbers. Simple, in fact, and surprisingly repeatable. Most of our test crew agreed they'd never treat their own $150,000 car in such an abusive manner. I was the lone holdout, arguing that Porsche seems to have designed the Turbo's clutch to be beaten repeatedly. With an axe.

As we expected and you imagined, the Corvette ZR1 did phenomenally in the mile, hitting 177 mph. That's extremely fast, though only 3 mph faster than a Corvette Z06 we tested in 2006. Still, faster is faster. We actually got the plastic fantastic up to 190 mph before running out of runway. That latter figure is only 5 percent off the ZR1's top speed of 200.4 mph. The Corvette then did 0-150-0 in 25.6 seconds. Sounds good to us, but what do you compare that number against? For the sake of silly, the brand-new, 1200-horse Bugatti Veyron Super Sport takes 25.6 seconds to go 0-200-0. So, there's that.
What about the Porsche? Well, it broke. The twin variable-vane turbos stopped spooling and the boost went bye-bye as we were warming the car up for its runs. Why? As of this writing, we don't know. Porsche speculates that a hose buried deeply within the nearly inaccessible engine bay "popped off." Maybe, but not a single warning light flashed, yet the boost gauge indicated zero. All we know is the 3.8-liter flat-six reverted back to natural aspiration and the Turbo couldn't participate in our big boy tests. Bummer.


The Porsche Turbo is a world-class car. There's nothing it does poorly, and, as far as we can tell, it has no weak points, busted scrolls notwithstanding. Some of my colleagues prefer the Porsche to the ZR1, saying the Turbo is the better all-around car, less brassy and ostentatious, and thereby better suited for adults. The rest of us are apparently more intimately in touch with our inner child, because we feel the Turbo is a tad...dull. Can a car that hits 60 mph in 3 seconds be dull? No, but in comparison to the screaming banshee thrills doled out by the ZR1 every time you bury the go-pedal, the Porsche felt stodgy. In fact, when we ran the Turbo against the Audi R8 V-10 and the Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG, the only real gripe concerning the Porsche was that it's a little...dull.


The ZR1, on the other hand, is a hot mess of excitement sitting on four big chrome wheels. The noise is lascivious; the looks are sinister bordering on subversive; and the way it rockets down the road with the profligate torque almost overwhelming the rubber with every shift is habit-forming. On the other hand, the ZR1's build quality is suspicious; the fuel consumption is sinful; and the seats are, as always, terrible for corner-filled driving. Still, just sitting in the best-ever Corvette is an event, never mind the gallons of blood that start pumping through your system when you press the starter button, or the foot-wide smile that appears when you shift into second gear at full throttle.

Back to reality for a moment: You can't go wrong with either supercar. They both give you something that 99 percent of the other cars on earth simply can't, and I for one would be thrilled to own either. The Porsche did break, so maybe this comparison gets an asterisk. And maybe next time Stuttgart shows up with a car more up to the gauntlet dropped by the ZR1, like the RWD 620 horsepower GT2 RS. Until then...the Porsche Turbo is an incredibly potent and precise scientific achievement, but the Corvette ZR1 is a fever dream.




1ST PLACE: CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1
We're still red-eyed, white-knuckled, and blue in the face over GM's most powerful super-duper car.
2ND PLACE: PORSCHE 911 TURBO
The thinking man's supercar and dragstrip missile fails to tug at our heartstrings. It's flawless to a fault.


Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz107QQcDFD

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Old 09-20-2010, 09:22 PM   #2
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Reason #1 why I see the 911Turbo as the only German car I would ever truly consider. I have raced the old model in my Z51... and won after an embarrasing bad shift loss the first time.. but this new one takes it to the KING VETTE and beats it in the DRAG... but loses to it on the track... Talk about REVERSE OF FORTUNES. Usually it was the other way around... but the Porsche manages a great deal of it's awesomeness from that "4 on the floor" attribute. GRIP, people.. I SAY GRIP. While the Vette is trying to get traction for that couple tenths of a second.. the 911 is already on the move.

Anyone notice the Vette's lateral Gs?? What about that Road Course, where it simply murders the 911.


and the 1 mile run is hilarious :


Quote:
As we expected and you imagined, the Corvette ZR1 did phenomenally in the mile, hitting 177 mph. That's extremely fast, though only 3 mph faster than a Corvette Z06 we tested in 2006. Still, faster is faster. We actually got the plastic fantastic up to 190 mph before running out of runway. That latter figure is only 5 percent off the ZR1's top speed of 200.4 mph. The Corvette then did 0-150-0 in 25.6 seconds. Sounds good to us, but what do you compare that number against? For the sake of silly, the brand-new, 1200-horse Bugatti Veyron Super Sport takes 25.6 seconds to go 0-200-0. So, there's that.
GOOD LORDY.. I wanna drive this car again

Quote:
What about the Porsche? Well, it broke. The twin variable-vane turbos stopped spooling and the boost went bye-bye as we were warming the car up for its runs. Why? As of this writing, we don't know. Porsche speculates that a hose buried deeply within the nearly inaccessible engine bay "popped off." Maybe, but not a single warning light flashed, yet the boost gauge indicated zero. All we know is the 3.8-liter flat-six reverted back to natural aspiration and the Turbo couldn't participate in our big boy tests. Bummer.
and as much as I love it.. U gotta love that perfect German engineering more... .. "It BROKE"
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:52 PM   #3
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"On the flip side of that same coin, would you be willing to believe a General Motors product -- one that quite literally began melting after a few hours in the hot California sun -- not only beat but flat-out embarrassed a Nurburgring'd all-star twin-turbo AWD Porsche on a tricky, challenging, high-speed racetrack? What's next, a black president?" lmao
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:14 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX View Post
and as much as I love it.. U gotta love that perfect German engineering more... .. "It BROKE"
Lol, ur hilarious. The zr1 is the epitome of GM/American performance. The 911 turbo is not the epitome of Porsche. But good try
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:17 PM   #5
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Lol, ur hilarious. The zr1 is the epitome of GM/American performance. The 911 turbo is not the epitome of Porsche. But good try
IDK, what's hilarious is you're trying to defend some notion of "German engineering." The ZR1 clearly won here, and it was odd that this particular 911 broke down during testing.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:21 PM   #6
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IDK, what's hilarious is you're trying to defend some notion of "German engineering." The ZR1 clearly won here, and it was odd that this particular 911 broke down during testing.
The 911 turbo should not be compared to the zr1. It should be supercar vs. supercar
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:38 PM   #7
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The 911 turbo should not be compared to the zr1. It should be supercar vs. supercar
Price says they should be compared, and I would call this particular 911 a supercar. Even the authors called them both supercars...
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:42 PM   #8
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Price says they should be compared, and I would call this particular 911 a supercar. Even the authors called them both supercars...
Since when has price ever been taken into consideration with these top end comparisons?
Last time I checked the 60k CTS-V was pitted not against the similarly priced 5 series, but the 100k M5, 100k e63 amg, etc..
Last time I checked the 80k gt-r was pitted against the 140k 911 Turbo, not a base 911.
Last time I checked the 120k zr1 was pitted against the 200k 911 gt2.

It's funny how last time around the zr1 was pitted against the top of the line 911, but now it's been downgraded to the 911 turbo since Porsche would win the top-of-the-line comparo this time...
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:58 PM   #9
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Well, that 'superior' German engineering really shined this time. A hose popped off in the nearly inaccesible engine bay.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:07 AM   #10
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Since when has price ever been taken into consideration with these top end comparisons?
Last time I checked the 60k CTS-V was pitted not against the similarly priced 5 series, but the 100k M5, 100k e63 amg, etc..
Last time I checked the 80k gt-r was pitted against the 140k 911 Turbo, not a base 911.
Last time I checked the 120k zr1 was pitted against the 200k 911 gt2.

It's funny how last time around the zr1 was pitted against the top of the line 911, but now it's been downgraded to the 911 turbo since Porsche would win the top-of-the-line comparo this time...
I would honestly hope a company could make an overall faster vehicle than another when his competitor is underpriced by ~$70K (ZR1 vs. GT2). Surely I do not have to explain why price has such a huge effect on a vehicles performance now do I? I thought it was relatively simple concept that nearly everyone knew. Price has everything to do with performance, especially if you're an enthusiast who wants the best deal when it comes performance. However, if you're one of the minority who would throw away tens of thousands of dollars to have "German Engineering," then that is your choice with your hard-earned money.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:10 AM   #11
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I would honestly hope a company could make an overall faster vehicle than another when his competitor is underpriced by ~$70K (ZR1 vs. GT2). Surely I do not have to explain why price has such a huge effect on a vehicles performance now do I? I thought it was relatively simple concept that nearly everyone knew. Price has everything to do with performance, especially if you're an enthusiast who wants the best deal when it comes performance. However, if you're one of the minority who would throw away tens of thousands of dollars to have "German Engineering," then that is your choice with your hard-earned money.
The problem with your logic is that you think everybody buys a car just for the performance factor...In which case they fail because they should just buy an old civic for 5k, do 20k in mods, and run circles around everything. And price has never played a role in these comparisons before, like I said, look at all the examples I've given, so why does it suddenly play a role now when the big boy is winning?
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:13 AM   #12
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I'd love to have a zr1 but I think the 911 is a safer ride and less scary and less chance dieing behind the wheel.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:54 AM   #13
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I was sure MT would find a way for the Porsche to win. The 911 Turbo is a very nice car, but give me the ZR1 every day of the week.
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:17 AM   #14
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Easy choice. ZR1 everyday and twice on sunday.

Let the Germans keep their overpriced car.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:11 AM   #15
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How do you get a gig like this? I want to be an automotive journalist!
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:07 AM   #16
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Do your best at reviewing your current ride and post it on youtube and if its good enough you should be able to find work.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:20 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by HeHasReturned View Post
The problem with your logic is that you think everybody buys a car just for the performance factor...In which case they fail because they should just buy an old civic for 5k, do 20k in mods, and run circles around everything. And price has never played a role in these comparisons before, like I said, look at all the examples I've given, so why does it suddenly play a role now when the big boy is winning?
I don't think everyone buys their cars strictly off of what its performance is, however it is obviously a main concern for people in this particular market. The fact is that the ZR1 is the better value if you prefer the better performer, for less. Price always plays a role, but it's more interesting how you run in here and defend the lesser performer. Is it because it isn't German? Is it because the ZR1 is American?
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:36 PM   #18
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I love the 911 TUrbo, it is an amazing car, but the ZR1 just had the edge here. THe fact the 911 broke down is worrying too. Given if I had the money I would not buy either one. I would honestly try to find me a used Ford GT, just because I love the look and overall vibe of that car
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:51 PM   #19
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funny how we will compare a CTS-V against a XF-R or M5... a Camaro against a Premium 11 GT, GT500, or srt8 Challenger... a z06 against a Viper... using price as leverage when traditional performance numbers don't work... i guess we have a natural under-dog mentality when we dislike the better opponent... i like the zr1, but being associated with the vette crowd, would push me back over to the 911 (a GT3 even)...
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeHasReturned View Post
The problem with your logic is that you think everybody buys a car just for the performance factor...In which case they fail because they should just buy an old civic for 5k, do 20k in mods, and run circles around everything. And price has never played a role in these comparisons before, like I said, look at all the examples I've given, so why does it suddenly play a role now when the big boy is winning?
I don't understand how you are thinking that the main point of the comparison here is price. The as tested prices are $28k apart. Thats a pretty big gap if you ask me.

Scanning Porsche's website ... if they wanted to do a dollar-for-dollar comparision, they would probably have gone with a 911 Carrera GTS. It starts within about 5% of the MSRP of the ZR1. Wouldn't that have been the logical choice to do a price based comparison between a ZR1 and a 911?
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:02 PM   #21
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I don't understand how you are thinking that the main point of the comparison here is price. The as tested prices are $28k apart. Thats a pretty big gap if you ask me.

Scanning Porsche's website ... if they wanted to do a dollar-for-dollar comparision, they would probably have gone with a 911 Carrera GTS. It starts within about 5% of the MSRP of the ZR1. Wouldn't that have been the logical choice to do a price based comparison between a ZR1 and a 911?
I'm saying it shouldn't be based on price...My question is why a 500hp awd Porsche is being compared to the 600+hp rwd Vette, when Porsche has a 600+hp rwd car...Wouldn't a logical choice have been to compare those two? The Turbo has never been compared to the zr1 before, so why is Motor Trend suddenly doing it now once Porsche has made the better car?
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:05 PM   #22
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I don't think everyone buys their cars strictly off of what its performance is, however it is obviously a main concern for people in this particular market. The fact is that the ZR1 is the better value if you prefer the better performer, for less. Price always plays a role, but it's more interesting how you run in here and defend the lesser performer. Is it because it isn't German? Is it because the ZR1 is American?
I don't see what this has to do with German vs. American, all it has to do with is that Motor Trend suddenly flip-flopped on the competition. They compared it to the top-of-the-line Porsche before, why don't they do it now? That's all I'm saying
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by HeHasReturned View Post
I'm saying it shouldn't be based on price...My question is why a 500hp awd Porsche is being compared to the 600+hp rwd Vette, when Porsche has a 600+hp rwd car...Wouldn't a logical choice have been to compare those two? The Turbo has never been compared to the zr1 before, so why is Motor Trend suddenly doing it now once Porsche has made the better car?
I'm saying its not based on price since there is another 911 that costs almost the same amount as a ZR1. If they wanted to go on pricing, they would have used it instead of the turbo.

Why did they pick the 911 Turbo? Probably because they expected it to do better than it did. My guess is they tried to get two very different cars to post similar results around the track. The finesse and handling of the 911 vs the brute force of the ZR1. Problem is, there is more to the ZR1 than just brute force.

As for why not the GT2 RS? Probably because HP is about the only thing those cars have in common. The GT2 RS would likely win every performance category since its nearly a street legal race car. So you're left with a pretty boring story: the more expensive car is faster. Wow, who would have guess that one!
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:34 PM   #24
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I don't understand how you are thinking that the main point of the comparison here is price. The as tested prices are $28k apart. Thats a pretty big gap if you ask me.

Scanning Porsche's website ... if they wanted to do a dollar-for-dollar comparision, they would probably have gone with a 911 Carrera GTS. It starts within about 5% of the MSRP of the ZR1. Wouldn't that have been the logical choice to do a price based comparison between a ZR1 and a 911?
HeHasReturned is nothing but a contrarian. After seeing his posts in several threads it's clear he is here to be argumentative and nothing more. Perhaps the volkswagen forums sent him to us in jest

I'm curious to know what the standing mile would have been in the 911. I would think the AWD would start to hinder performance at the high end.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:40 PM   #25
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I'm saying it shouldn't be based on price...My question is why a 500hp awd Porsche is being compared to the 600+hp rwd Vette, when Porsche has a 600+hp rwd car...Wouldn't a logical choice have been to compare those two? The Turbo has never been compared to the zr1 before, so why is Motor Trend suddenly doing it now once Porsche has made the better car?



Dude.. STOP.... That race has already been done.. back when the ZR1 bowed... and AMERICA won. Not GERMANY.. Not JAPAN... AMERICA.. JUST LIKE OLD TIMES....

Corvette ZR1 599 GTB Fiorano Nissan GT-R Porsche 911 GT2
$106,520 $317,595 $77,840 $192,560


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