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Old 12-16-2008, 02:39 PM   #1
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ANOTHER interesting read -- how we subsidize foreign brands.....

Tax Fairness for U.S. Auto Makers – The Wall Street Journal
December 16, 2008
Your Dec. 1 editorial "America's Other Auto Industry" questions whether taxpayers should provide temporary federal loans to American automakers, but conveniently ignores one fact: Our taxpayers already give huge sums of financial assistance to foreign car companies right here in the U.S.
As proposed, the requested bridge loans represent roughly $4 billion in assistance to U.S. auto makers, that is, the cost of a low-interest loan. With 240,000 employees spread among the three U.S. companies, that works out to less than $16,000 in temporary taxpayer assistance per job.
By contrast, foreign auto makers receive far more from U.S. taxpayers in various forms of government assistance. In Tennessee, for example, state and local authorities offered Volkswagen $577 million in lowered taxes and other benefits in exchange for the plants it is constructing, at a staggering cost of $288,000 per job created.
Similarly, Toyota is receiving $300 million in support for its plant in Texas, or $150,000 per job created. Alabama provided Hyundai, Toyota, Honda and Mercedes an average of $111,000 in incentives per job. The list goes on. Unlike the temporary assistance GM, Ford and Chrysler are seeking, in almost all the cases, U.S. taxpayer subsidies to foreign companies never need to be paid back.
Let's make sure to keep the discussion balanced. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Kia and Hyundai already receive far more in permanent financial support from our own taxpayers than what the U.S. auto industry is seeking. Our own companies deserve equal consideration, no more, no less.
Stephen Collins
President
Automotive Trade Policy Council
Washington
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:25 PM   #2
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FIRST!!!!

good read btw i think this whole situation is stupid and i wish that they would just give them the loan
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:26 PM   #3
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Just goes to show how much America really does hate its own corporations.
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:33 PM   #4
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The more I read, the sicker I get. What really annoys me is that over 50% of the general public opposes any type of government loan to our auto manufacturers. I'm sure these people have some type of Korean or Japanese appliance in their driveways.

Do your part...and...BUY AMERICAN! Buy a Camaro or even a Mustang or Challenger or a Malibu or a CTS or a Silverado or a Cobalt or...... Have intelligent conversations with your import loving friends. Point them to independent research that shows the quality of our domestic brands.
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
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The more I read, the sicker I get. What really annoys me is that over 50% of the general public opposes any type of government loan to our auto manufacturers. I'm sure these people have some type of Korean or Japanese appliance in their driveways.

Do your part...and...BUY AMERICAN! Buy a Camaro or even a Mustang or Challenger or a Malibu or a CTS or a Silverado or a Cobalt or...... Have intelligent conversations with your import loving friends. Point them to independent research that shows the quality of our domestic brands.
converting 'em one at a time
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:24 PM   #6
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Never thought I would see the time when the US Government and US tax payers would be so willing to turn against their own. It seems that at times the US sells itself short. I have hope theirs a brighter future ahead.
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:13 PM   #7
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It sort of goes along with... what's that word... outsourcing. Its sad, but true. Take jobs away from (north) Americans to make items cheaper in China/korea/etc.

A good read Fbodfather!
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:46 AM   #8
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Double standard much?
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:32 AM   #9
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Guess I have to be the devils advocate here.. but if the states where giving "extras" to these foreign companies.. why didnt GM/Ford/DCX jump on the boat and build some plants there? Especially if its such a huge issue....

Personally I just don't see how this article is related (oh and I am in favor of the loan).
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Old 12-17-2008, 12:55 PM   #10
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Guess I have to be the devils advocate here.. but if the states where giving "extras" to these foreign companies.. why didnt GM/Ford/DCX jump on the boat and build some plants there? Especially if its such a huge issue....

Personally I just don't see how this article is related (oh and I am in favor of the loan).



Good Point these are state tax dollars not federal. GM has the same ability to open up plants in these locations as well and recieve the same tax breaks. In fact they often negoitiate retooling a plant for tax breaks and other incentives vs. just closing down and building somewhere else.

Another point to consider is that these states in question are trying to attract manufacturing to boost their economies. Is Michigan doing this as well? Or to put it another way, say you are state "A" and a car company is thinking about opening up in your state vs. another, you have to compete for their business to gain more employment for your citizens.

Should we tell foreign manufacturers not to build here and layoff some more Americans???
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Old 12-17-2008, 12:57 PM   #11
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Should we tell foreign manufacturers not to build here and layoff some more Americans???
It's not that we don't want them here paying our citizens to do their dirty work. But we shouldn't help them compete against us. Which is what all these subsidies are doing!
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Old 12-17-2008, 12:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by diarmadhi View Post
Guess I have to be the devils advocate here.. but if the states where giving "extras" to these foreign companies.. why didnt GM/Ford/DCX jump on the boat and build some plants there? Especially if its such a huge issue....

Personally I just don't see how this article is related (oh and I am in favor of the loan).
The insinuation is that the big three are under such pressure to be tied to the unions that they don't want them to build plants in Right to work states. Meaning they wouldn't have to use unions...

If I were the Gov of a RTW state. I'd do everything in my power to entice the Big three to move to my state. Can you image the long term benefits.

Having said that, if the Big three move from Michigan, that state would self destruct. So, it's probably much harder than I make it out to be.

And what Dragon said.
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Old 12-17-2008, 01:11 PM   #13
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It's not that we don't want them here paying our citizens to do their dirty work. But we shouldn't help them compete against us. Which is what all these subsidies are doing!
Actually these tax breaks and subsidies are enabling manufacturing(all, not just cars) to even exist in the states. Taiwanese labor costs about 1/2 of American and Chinese is a 1/4 of that. I've spent a fair amount of time with them and we are just not competitive with labor costs and thats not likely to change so we have to keep subsidizing manufacturing to keep jobs.

If states did not offer this to any company they would likely build in another country and again we all loose.

So I say to GM, Ford and Chrysler(even though I can't stand Chrysler), move your plants to RTW states where you get better deals on taxes and labor. It's funny the state that you helped build is holding you back with taxes and rudimentary labor laws.
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Old 12-17-2008, 01:25 PM   #14
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Then let them build in their country if we're too high-priced. That's due to our Nation's standard of living (thanks in no small part to the big three), and I'd rather not compromise that for the sake of a few thousand jobs. Sounds harsh, but
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