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Old 12-26-2008, 12:56 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35th02ss View Post
Ok I can understand everyone's feelings and passion about this car. But you have to understand that GM is not doing this to anger, loss sales, etc. Please know that the Camaro Team is trying to give you the car that everyone has been waiting along time for, me included.

If you think that they are not working the issue, your very wrong. They are working very hard to resolve this. The time that these people have put in is mind blowing to say the least. It would be nothing for Cheryl or John to go to the office for 12 hours then have to come home for a 2 hour tele con.

I assure you that everyone is giving 150% to this. Give them your understanding they know your disappointed as they are.
I dont think they're intentionally doing this... I never have thought they were doing this on purpose... and I dont doubt that they're giving this their all... what I want to know is "what are you going to do about this?"... the people who buy this car first thing out of the gate will be the ones that make the car or break the car... their demonstration of how it performs and what it is capable of will either spread the love or spread the disdain... how is it going to look for GM to have a car launched, after much talk and media blitz, only to have one of the coolest features not on the car? and how is it going to look if those people dont get some kind of retrofit or discount for this suddenly missing item? "we coldn't get this to work, so we're going to charge you for it, anyway, and then it'll be free to those that buy the car next year... oh, you can't afford to buy a car and trade it in a year and a half later? too bad, so sad for you"... that's not going to go over well with customers.

this feature doesn't HAVE to be on the car... but something has to be done if its not going to be.
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Old 12-26-2008, 02:12 AM   #189
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already cancelled mine
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:04 AM   #190
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let me ask everyone this. Would you rather have something on the car that is not 100% or wait till it is. Just because it's on another car means nothing. It still has to pass the durability test for this car.

Take for example. A person buys this car that lives in AZ. After three or so years the dash starts to seperate from the ABL due to the heat which leaves a gap. Do you think that person would be happy? What kind of review would they give GM for that. This is just some of the things that GM looks at.

With or without ABL I'll still be getting mine.
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:17 AM   #191
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OK I will bite. I will Pass. No ABL, No Long stripe offering I will be canceling my order too just a matter of time.

I am however very willing to give GM some more time to get past the technical issues and the bean counters, but I too have limits.

Where are all you guys that pounced on me over the assertion that I would cancel the order on the short rally stripes?? ABL is cosmetic too - and the differance is I have not yet canceled the order for my car over the stripes yet others are canceling over ABL right here and are seemingly getting a "board pass" for doing so. Where is the fan boy outrage?

Please...consistancy guys......
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:01 AM   #192
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Uhm, let's see.........I think we are being very consistent and fair in our comments on both items.

Yes, they are both cosmetic, but the stripes are there, the ABL is still a question on it's status.

You made the same comments over and over and over about how your friends were going to laugh at the short stripes or how it looked like a U-haul. Nobody has made the same ridiculous references on the ABL. The stripes can be added or deleted adjusting the bottom-line price. So far, we don't know if we can make the same adjustments if the ABL will not be on the first run cars.

You have commented on the length of the stripes. We are commenting on an integral electrical system to the vehicle that may or may not be a simple retrofit later. We don't want to pay for something we aren't getting is the biggest thing here as well as not getting something that has been hyped-up by GM for the last year.
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:07 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVMY68SS View Post
Uhm, let's see.........I think we are being very consistent and fair in our comments on both items.

Yes, they are both cosmetic, but the stripes are there, the ABL is still a question on it's status.

You made the same comments over and over and over about how your friends were going to laugh at the short stripes or how it looked like a U-haul. Nobody has made the same ridiculous references on the ABL. The stripes can be added or deleted adjusting the bottom-line price. So far, we don't know if we can make the same adjustments if the ABL will not be on the first run cars.

You have commented on the length of the stripes. We are commenting on an integral electrical system to the vehicle that may or may not be a simple retrofit later. We don't want to pay for something we aren't getting is the biggest thing here as well as not getting something that has been hyped-up by GM for the last year.
Your assertion fails on its face. I only responded as I did after being repeadedly attacked.

BTW: Where is that utterly insulting quote you borrowed from Pete that is suddenly missing from your signature?
Here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...?t=9238&page=5
(at post #112)

Please explain your conduct.
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:26 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35th02ss View Post
let me ask everyone this. Would you rather have something on the car that is not 100% or wait till it is. Just because it's on another car means nothing. It still has to pass the durability test for this car.

Take for example. A person buys this car that lives in AZ. After three or so years the dash starts to seperate from the ABL due to the heat which leaves a gap. Do you think that person would be happy? What kind of review would they give GM for that. This is just some of the things that GM looks at.

With or without ABL I'll still be getting mine.
that still does nothing to address the question I posed: what is GM going to do about this if this item is missing? discount? retrofit? upgrade? nothing?

the people that bought '98-'00 model Camaros SSs and Z28s missed out on the LS6 intake and upgraded exhaust manifolds that went into the '01-'02 models... the folks that bought in '98-'99 missed out on the steering wheel controls available from '00-'02... the '98 models had the worst flowing heads... the '01 Z06 had 385hp, while the '02-'04 Z06s had 405hp... these are all little things that initial customer didn't get, but the later customers did get... but they are examples from the past where it was a "too bad, so sad" deal and the price didn't change for the car... but in all of those cases, the initial run of cars wasn't broadcast to have something that it didn't have... and that is the case here.

again, I'm not saying it has to be on the car, I'm saying that if it isn't, there needs to be something done for the initial run customers so they can say, "hey, I didn't get the cool ambient lighting, but GM did me right and gave me XXXXXXX to make up for it"... whether its a free car cover, a retrofit, a free year of turn by turn OnStar, or whatever, GM needs to make the decision to take care of the customer here and not leave them out in the cold.

and Jeremy, please dont take this is a personal attack or anything, because I'm certainly not attacking anyone on the forums, or even GM, here... I am just giving GM the reality check that they said something was going to be there, made a video of the feature being there and now, suddenly, it might not be there... if its not, something needs to be done to fulfill the customer... simply telling them to cancel their order and wait is not enough... we've ALL waited long eough for GM to resurrect the Camaro, its time to make us smile at ownership and beam with pride at the product we get... and its time for GM to give back to the loyal following that has kept Camaro a household name for over 6 years while GM tried to use front wheel drive cars to fill the void left by their bean counters and bad decisions back in 2002.
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:43 AM   #195
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You might not like this response, but are you buying a car or are you buying pretty lights?

I am really surprised to see hard core Camaro performance enthusiasts cancelling orders because of lights... There is an incredible amount of turmoil going on in OUR economy and like it or not some items may be impacted. They may not be able to afford to do the ambient lighting right now. They ARE in bailout mode. Be happy they are producing the Camaro at all and that it is as close to the concept as realistically possible. Remember the phrase "The price of perfection is bankruptcy". Never truer than right now... Wouldn't you prefer a Camaro with no ambient lighting over a Toyota with Neons? We have to assume so since all of us have taken the time to be an integral part of this site and made the effort to place our orders...
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:54 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedster View Post
You might not like this response, but are you buying a car or are you buying pretty lights?

I am really surprised to see hard core Camaro performance enthusiasts cancelling orders because of lights... There is an incredible amount of turmoil going on in OUR economy and like it or not some items may be impacted. They may not be able to afford to do the ambient lighting right now. They ARE in bailout mode. Be happy they are producing the Camaro at all and that it is as close to the concept as realistically possible. Remember the phrase "The price of perfection is bankruptcy". Never truer than right now... Wouldn't you prefer a Camaro with no ambient lighting over a Toyota with Neons? We have to assume so since all of us have taken the time to be an integral part of this site and made the effort to place our orders...
I agree it is somehow silly to cancel an order because you can't get the pretty little lights. The rest of the car is still sweet. The people canceling their orders will be kicking themselves in the foot come this spring when they see their friends driving down the road in their high-powered Camaros and they're still driving around in their beater...all because of some little lights!

On the other hand, we ARE the customers. If you promise something as a company, you better deliver. I don't buy the bailout excuse. GM can't add these lights because of the financial problems they're having?
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Old 12-26-2008, 10:05 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedster View Post
You might not like this response, but are you buying a car or are you buying pretty lights?

I am really surprised to see hard core Camaro performance enthusiasts cancelling orders because of lights... There is an incredible amount of turmoil going on in OUR economy and like it or not some items may be impacted. They may not be able to afford to do the ambient lighting right now. They ARE in bailout mode. Be happy they are producing the Camaro at all and that it is as close to the concept as realistically possible. Remember the phrase "The price of perfection is bankruptcy". Never truer than right now... Wouldn't you prefer a Camaro with no ambient lighting over a Toyota with Neons? We have to assume so since all of us have taken the time to be an integral part of this site and made the effort to place our orders...
The issue is not the "pretty lights" it is the lack of fufiling a comitment. I am not going to cancel, but I sure can understand why people will. They are tired of bieng told one thing and getting another.
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Old 12-26-2008, 10:21 AM   #198
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Are you not dating that supermodel just because she has no nose? So what, she's still got a killer bod, right? Who cares if she has two nostril holes in a flat space above her lips?

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Old 12-26-2008, 10:22 AM   #199
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GM can't delay this car..they're going to need the profits from this car to meet the loan requirements. If they don't finish ABL in time, it will most likely be left off.
Actually, yes they can; but they won't for something as "trivial" as ABL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camaropete View Post
I heard through the grapevine that they were working out issues with the ABL. I heard it might take them some time, but that the goal is to have it working for the first cars. My personal opinion (take it with a grain of salt) is that they are prepared to delay the production if necessary in order to get the ABL right...
No way. Keep in mind that "we" are the enthusiasts. We know what is "supposed to be" on this vehicle; the general public doesn't. This car will launch on time and the general public will eat up every vehicle we haven't pre-ordered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VICTORY RED 1SS View Post
I don't want ambient lighting. I'm not buying a video game, I'm buying a car.
It's not really a question of wanting it or not wanting it IMO. It's strictly a question of getting what we were told we were paying for. Would you take delivery of a 2SS without leather because they were having issues from their supplier?

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Originally Posted by SilverTurtle View Post
that still does nothing to address the question I posed: what is GM going to do about this if this item is missing? discount? retrofit? upgrade? nothing?

... but in all of those cases, the initial run of cars wasn't broadcast to have something that it didn't have... and that is the case here.


My personal opinion- if ABL isn't available at launch, they'll install what does work on it at the factory, from the power supply to the "cord" itself and have the dealers install the finished product when ready. They're not about to screw around discounting the initial cars a few hundred bucks to make up the difference instead of giving us what we were told we would have. That's just poor marketing at its best. They don't need that label at launch...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldave24v View Post
The issue is not the "pretty lights" it is the lack of fufiling a comitment. I am not going to cancel, but I sure can understand why people will. They are tired of bieng told one thing and getting another.
That my friend says it all.
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Old 12-26-2008, 10:42 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70 COPO View Post
Your assertion fails on its face. I only responded as I did after being repeadedly attacked.

BTW: Where is that utterly insulting quote you borrowed from Pete that is suddenly missing from your signature?
Here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...?t=9238&page=5
(at post #112)

Please explain your conduct.
I think you meant to say falls in lieu of fails up there.

Sorry, I didn't notice that the show signature box was unchecked on that post.........trust me, it won't happen again.

Oh, and :middlefinger:
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Old 12-26-2008, 10:48 AM   #201
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That's enough.

Ok.

That'll do.

I can appreciate that there are valid concerns and complaints on both sides which is why this thread is allowed to continue. But antagonizing and insulting eachother are the quickest ways to give me the excuse I've been looking for to close this and the many other threads like it.

So, please, keep the personal attacks out of your posts.

Thanks,
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Old 12-26-2008, 11:15 AM   #202
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Ok.

That'll do.

I can appreciate that there are valid concerns and complaints on both sides which is why this thread is allowed to continue. But antagonizing and insulting eachother are the quickest ways to give me the excuse I've been looking for to close this and the many other threads like it.

So, please, keep the personal attacks out of your posts.

Thanks,

Thanks for the support! Makes me feel better that the moderators are watching after all.
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Old 12-26-2008, 12:05 PM   #203
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This has been said before and it bares repeating, I will delay my order if they plan to introduce a Camaro with ABL a few months after release of the initial run. Besides the fact it will probably look really cool, the absence of this feature will definitely harm trade in and resale values. I have experienced this with past vehicle models and I have learned from it. GM needs to clarify this issue ASAP.
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Old 12-26-2008, 12:09 PM   #204
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I think the IDL on 9 Jan will put this issue to bed, one way or the other
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