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Old 12-19-2008, 11:22 PM   #101
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We need to quit making excuses for past performance. The Government will expect major changes from GM in just a few months or it is off to bankrupt status. I ordered a car based upon what GM told me the car was going to be. An obvious pre launch sales acceleration tactic -that I and others here were more then happy to help with then the trickle of bad news after the orders were placed as the favored options eroded.

Now the measure of success now will be future performance and communication.

I see this site as like a version of "Camaro Beta" where ideas get floated past us to check core reaction. Sometimes they get it right in advance then the idea gets pulled back by the bean counters. How frustrating can that be for the brand team??

I am not that in love with the car to take whatever the GM decision makers decide to "give me".

That is the way of thinking at GM that needs "restructuring" the most if the company is to survive.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:43 PM   #102
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while i havent said anything i was one of those guys that would have probably waited for the ambient lighting. I think its a great feature and one of the first ways i found out about this car was through the start up video that showed it, and since then its been

then tonight i got into my first accident (im fine, fender bender, car still runs, not my fault) and the car I have absolutely has to last till the camaro comes in, if it doesnt im screwed and i have to cancel my order. at that point i realized its the car i want not the ambient lighting, and I couldnt live with myself if i ended up not getting the camaro just because I delayed my order for lighting. Well obviously my situation doenst apply to everyone today did help put things into perspective. that said this spring cant come fast enough.... looks at the count down timer. screw christmas i want my camaro.
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:33 AM   #103
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Quote:
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Sorry to disagree but even with the new Camaro won't make GM # one.
They never was & doubt they ever will be? Sure hope they prove me wrong?
ummmm, sorry to disappoint you, but Toyota and GM are the top 2 auto manufacturers in the WORLD... with GM reporting accurate car sales down to the hundreds and Toyota reporting their numbers down to the thousands... there was a huge drama on this forum back when Toyota was claiming they outsold GM for 2007 but then wouldn't give accurate numbers down to the hundreds... so, by default, GM is the NUMBER ONE CAR SALES entity on the planet... this may not hold true for the 2008 calendar year.




please refrain from making inaccurate statements on this forum, as some people who do not know the truth might take your misinformation and spread it like a disease across the internet... thanks in advance.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:43 AM   #104
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Wow...

a lot of points I can agree with here.

Some of those points I really didn't want to say, but felt...strongly about.

ABL needs to be there WITHOUT FAIL. This domino effect is really getting to me. One thing after another...and now the speculation that we don't get what we were told was going to be standard on the 2LT and 2SS...This is killing me....

I will not buy a $35k to $40 THOUSAND DOLLAR watered down version of a 2SS/RS only to have fully loaded version with all the "new" goodies and gadgets coming out months later. Yeah...not like I'm planning on selling it, but I like the point made about MY resale value going through the floor since no one wants the bare bones, but "fully loaded" 2SS/RS. Meh...I might be worrying about nothing. ...and I pray to God that I am.

....still working on "keeping the faith..."
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:50 AM   #105
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Well I've been reading this thread closely, and I must admit that ABL is one of the features I was looking forward to my 2LT, I thought it really added to the coolness factor.

I won't be canceling my order if its not there though, as how I sold my car before this depolyment and the ex got the other one, so its either a watered down 2LT or diff car and I want my camaro.

However if they offer a voucher for a free install at the dealer once it comes avalible I'm all for it, or hell even I have to pay for it

I will not be adding 3rd party lighting inside to replace ABL as that will probably look very cheap and rice.

I really hope its there but if not as long as I can get it added later and compenstation somehow I'm okay.
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:52 AM   #106
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GM had better pull out all stops to deliver what they have publicly announced for this car (ie Ambient Lighting). If they fail to do so, the media backlash and the internet forum backlash will be very detrimental to their future. They don't need anymore negative publicity.
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:32 PM   #107
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GM had better pull out all stops to deliver what they have publicly announced for this car (ie Ambient Lighting). If they fail to do so, the media backlash and the internet forum backlash will be very detrimental to their future. They don't need anymore negative publicity.
That's what I am thinking....and I'm sure those higher ups working on the Camaro know this...

and I bet the guys working on it are working full speed....but are probably getting the shaft by having less people on it than they want, less money to use to figure it out, etc. heck, there might even be just one lonely guy working on it...wondering why the fate of the ABL is on his shoulders alone.

GM, time to get some more guys on this one...and figure it out....

Get it done. Get it done right. No one will complain and you can say, "we told you so..." Time to say, "screw the bean counters" and JUST DO IT. You all KNOW you need to!
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:18 PM   #108
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However if they offer a voucher for a free install at the dealer once it comes avalible I'm all for it
GM pretty much has to do this if they want to keep a lot of their preorders, especially if the MSRP doesn't drop. I was told I'd have ABL, I'm paying for ABL, so I better be getting ABL...if not I will have my order delayed.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:15 PM   #109
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Wow...

a lot of points I can agree with here.

Some of those points I really didn't want to say, but felt...strongly about.

ABL needs to be there WITHOUT FAIL. This domino effect is really getting to me. One thing after another...and now the speculation that we don't get what we were told was going to be standard on the 2LT and 2SS...This is killing me....

I will not buy a $35k to $40 THOUSAND DOLLAR watered down version of a 2SS/RS only to have fully loaded version with all the "new" goodies and gadgets coming out months later. Yeah...not like I'm planning on selling it, but I like the point made about MY resale value going through the floor since no one wants the bare bones, but "fully loaded" 2SS/RS. Meh...I might be worrying about nothing. ...and I pray to God that I am.

....still working on "keeping the faith..."
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GM pretty much has to do this if they want to keep a lot of their preorders, especially if the MSRP doesn't drop. I was told I'd have ABL, I'm paying for ABL, so I better be getting ABL...if not I will have my order delayed.
to these posts and about every other one it took like a half hour to read, LOL! It seems GM was playing with a double-edged sword with Camaro. They release information and camo' to please it's base, but then pull back so many things that they teased many people with. I can see many reasons for that kinda' thing though, money being the biggest problem. I would find it very hard to be one of the many who have already put a deposit on your order only to think you aren't going to get the car you're planning on. What's worse, you hang in there only to find out the car you want comes along in another year equipped exactly how you want.

I can't relate to those situations yet because I haven't/can't order but, like someone else already stated, at least they aren't going to send these cars out wrong. I think that's worth something. I'd rather hear we aren't ready yet than learn, after countless visits to the dealer that they can't fix it and there's nothing they can do to fix it. I can relate to the this appointment of yet another detail that has been questioned and maybe changed and not made available (see my sig' if you don't know) but I'm sure they're going to do all they can to make it right. They're getting some money and the only way they can hold their end of the bargain up is sell cars, and I think they know the market is touchy enough that one small misstep will cost a whole lot and have faith that it will be right; and that's what counts, I think. What sense is there in doing something and not doing it right? I think many people here can appreciate that when it comes down to it.

I do hope, though, that they fix it. It's one thing to hear that you're getting something, only to hear that, that, may not be the case, after you've already started paying toward it. Maybe the holidays are getting to us and the stress it just being compounded by this speculation. Nothing's been announced yet, and we're still a few months from cars arriving; we've waited this long - let's try to keep everything in perspective and keep our heads. I don't think anyone on Team Camaro wants to disappoint any enthusiast.

JMVHO
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:16 PM   #110
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Strike #1 The short front stripe switcheroo.
Strike #2 HUD then no HUD.
Strike #3 ABL then No ABL.

I wonder what is next?
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:03 PM   #111
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The Cadillac CTS has it, it's going on TWO model years. Don't understand why there would be any problems. Visit a CTS forum and no one has reported ANY problems.
Me thinks this is another nasty rumor. BTW go visit the CTS web site and they have a great demo on it.
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I would not delay for either. My wife has the ambient style lighting in her CTS. It is cool but I wouldn't miss it.

It's not brand new technology....they'll get it fixed!!!
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:44 PM   #112
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It's not brand new technology....they'll get it fixed!!!
If I'm not mistaken, when I was at the dealership, the older Caddy's had fiber optic lighting that was kinda' cool (for back in the day) so I just can't see that this is a problem they won't overcome. JMVHO.
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:48 PM   #113
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Sorry fellows have to ask this. Is HUD still on the table for mid production? I normaly would know but there are so many threads and posts, I must admit it is hard keeping up sometimes.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:18 PM   #114
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Sorry fellows have to ask this. Is HUD still on the table for mid production? I normaly would know but there are so many threads and posts, I must admit it is hard keeping up sometimes.
It is still being planned for the 2011 model year
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Old 12-20-2008, 06:40 PM   #115
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Strike #3 ABL then No ABL.
We don't know that for sure; it just appears that way because no one has tried to disproof this rumor. Was only slightly concerned a couple days ago but it's now a bit discomforting.
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:52 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by 70 COPO View Post
Strike #1 The short front stripe switcheroo.
Strike #2 HUD then no HUD.
Strike #3 ABL then No ABL.

I wonder what is next?
They never said we'd get long stripes. They were on a concept car, so that cannot be held against them.
And they never said we'd get HUD. Admittedly, they had a simulated video, but they took it down very quickly.

I...know...everybody's upset. And for the record, I think the idea of no ambient lighting at launch sucks to all heck - it's become my favorite feature about the interior on the car. But I still say the situation we are in, here on online forums and interacting with the Camaro team, is a unique experience. And things like this needs to be handled responsibly without all the speeches about injustices...:(
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:04 PM   #117
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Strike #1 The short front stripe switcheroo.
Strike #2 HUD then no HUD.
Strike #3 ABL then No ABL.

I wonder what is next?

Copo, you really need to give it a rest with the damn short stripes issue. I mean voicing your opinion is great, but beating the shit out of a dead horse is borderline annoying.

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We don't know that for sure; it just appears that way because no one has tried to disproof this rumor. Was only slightly concerned a couple days ago but it's now a bit discomforting.
I heard through the grapevine that they were working out issues with the ABL. I heard it might take them some time, but that the goal is to have it working for the first cars. My personal opinion (take it with a grain of salt) is that they are prepared to delay the production if necessary in order to get the ABL right. Everyone take a deep breath and relax. Since GM is in the holiday shutdown, we might not have the answer on this one for a few weeks. Patience.
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:26 PM   #118
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I'm with TAG also.

A lot of us put down a huge chunk of deposit money (some non-refundable!) on a car that very few of us has even seen in 3 dimensions. We based our purchase based on photoshopped pictures, incomplete order books, and rumors of present and future features.

I, for one, am not a big fan of leather, but when I imagined what the black leather interior of my rally yellow Camaro would look like bathed in a soft blue glow - well, you know....

Now we find the mental picture we've built in our mind's eye may turn out to be a mirage. And murky statements from GM reps that "it's not canceled," while good to know, only fuels the fire because the rumor was it was delayed, not canceled. I think we're all adult enough to deal with the truth - what bothers me is the trickle of information we're getting. If their are problems with ABL, just tell us up front what it is and if its the consensus of the GM engineers that it will or won't be ready on 16 Feb. It just immature of GM to withhold information and hope the bugs are ironed out in time just so they won't be accused of misleading us - which will happen anyway!

The HUD issue, the stripe issue, now the ABL issue means a lot to many people here and time is running out to give our dealers instructions on what to do with our order. We respectfully ask:
1. Is ABL delayed.
2. if so, for how long? We know, but give us a guess.
3. Will MSRP be adjusted? By how much?

We now return control to you....
what stripe issue
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:35 PM   #119
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My personal opinion (take it with a grain of salt) is that they are prepared to delay the production if necessary in order to get the ABL right.
In most cases I'd agree with you but I think GM, given their current situation and needing to make money as quickly as possible, will release this car as soon as they can, ABL or not.

Unless someone from GM can state otherwise? Or can at least tell us the current progress of ABL? Or if it were to delay and the car would release without it, what would happen to the price of the MSRP? ABL is incredibly important as it practically makes the interior, and is something that other cars, especially more expensive cars, do not have.

I seriously hope they realize that ABL is not a "Well we didn't get it working in time, oh well!" option. Has to be there.
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:41 PM   #120
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I'm with TAG also.

A lot of us put down a huge chunk of deposit money (some non-refundable!) on a car that very few of us has even seen in 3 dimensions...

It just immature of GM to withhold information and hope the bugs are ironed out in time just so they won't be accused of misleading us - which will happen anyway!

The HUD issue, the stripe issue, now the ABL issue means a lot to many people here and time is running out to give our dealers instructions on what to do with our order. We respectfully ask:
1. Is ABL delayed.
2. if so, for how long? We know, but give us a guess.
3. Will MSRP be adjusted? By how much?

We now return control to you....
People, we are still about 2 months from the start of production. If GM told us about every issue they have run up against during the production of this vehicle, we would have all run for the door with our money. It just isn't realistic to do this. It's like the government. If the general public knew all the stuff that happens at the top secret level, we would be living in bunkers in the mountains. I am sure that if GM gets to a point where they don't feel they can produce the cars with a quality ABL solution, then they will let us know. Until we hear it from them, consider it part of the first cars.
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Old 12-21-2008, 08:59 AM   #121
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I still haven't heard anything about a confirmed removal of the lighting, so maybe let's not get worked up about it, ok? I mean, it's freaking LIGHTS. I think that a team of engineers can figure out some lights.

I will start a new rumor to worry about: GM can't get all 8 cylinders to work on SS models, so the first 3 months or so of SS model cars will have 6.2L V8's that have 2 dead cylinders. They will give you cupons for a free fix once they figure it out. And a puppy.
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:11 AM   #122
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People, we are still about 2 months from the start of production. If GM told us about every issue they have run up against during the production of this vehicle, we would have all run for the door with our money. It just isn't realistic to do this. It's like the government. If the general public knew all the stuff that happens at the top secret level, we would be living in bunkers in the mountains. I am sure that if GM gets to a point where they don't feel they can produce the cars with a quality ABL solution, then they will let us know. Until we hear it from them, consider it part of the first cars.
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:27 AM   #123
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I agree with not getting worked up !!!!


This thread was created with the question -- what if

I sure hope that nobody has taken this thread with the idea that GM has canceled the ambient lighting -- and I surely hope that nobody has taken any action, whatsoever, on their pre-order based on this thread !!! Likewise, I surely hope that this thread has not deterred anyone from making a pre-order. IT IS ONLY A WHAT IF THREAD

COPO 70, you shouldn't be calling anything a strike when the pitcher hasn't even thrown the ball yet. Good example of what not to do -- jump the gun on a what if thread.

Right now, I am still sitting back with a big, fat smile and anxiously awaiting the day that the Camaro's start rolling out.

Now, IF there is ever an official announcement that GM has failed on delivering ambient lighting -- THEN --
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:05 AM   #124
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I still haven't heard anything about a confirmed removal of the lighting, so maybe let's not get worked up about it, ok? I mean, it's freaking LIGHTS. I think that a team of engineers can figure out some lights.

I will start a new rumor to worry about: GM can't get all 8 cylinders to work on SS models, so the first 3 months or so of SS model cars will have 6.2L V8's that have 2 dead cylinders. They will give you cupons for a free fix once they figure it out. And a puppy.

Okay, based on this new information (which I know is 100 percent accurate since was on the internet), I am just going to change my order to the v6. I would rather not have the weight of two dead cylinders. I have already called my dealer and changed my order. Also, he seemed really confused when I told him that I wanted a golden retriever puppy, and not a black lab (black is too hard to keep clean). But, since I told him I read it on the internet, he assured me that my puppy would be delivered as soon as all of the preproduction puppies had been disposed of.
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:23 AM   #125
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I don't want ambient lighting. I'm not buying a video game, I'm buying a car.
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