Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
ModBargains
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V8

Forced Induction - V8 V8 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-26-2010, 09:20 PM   #1
BlownSS

 
BlownSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Posts: 1,761
tuners' advice wanted.....meth injection ...should i or not?

Okay...i am looking for some info as far as which systems to run....I mainly want a tad more HP and a little insurance for my motor....I have read a lot about them and are down to Alky , Coolingmist and Snow. I want something that is fool proof and low maintenance. I want a trunk mounted tank. I have thd Maggie with 3.6 pulley, long tubes with high flow cats, boost a pump. Put down 536 rwhp last dyno. I want something I can run with pump gas. I don't wanna hear from the manufacturers because they tend to be a little biased (please dont get angry)......please educate me which way to go.
__________________
2010 IOM SS/RS LS3, Hennessey HPE550 Polished Magnuson TVS2300 Supercharger. 3.4 Pulley. Kooks long tube headers / high flow cats. GHL Full exhaust. ZL1 Fuel Pump/ADM FPCM. MSW Bap. JRE ZL1 Race cam with new springs/pushrods/Trunion Upgrade. FIC 850cc injectors. ZR1 Map sensor. CAI Induction. JRE Tune.

Last edited by BlownSS; 09-27-2010 at 07:06 AM.
BlownSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 10:40 PM   #2
Clint@A.I.R.
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 99' Camaro 404 TT
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Wheat Ridge
Posts: 324
Meth is a great way to go... Helps in everything across the board, power gain, lower your IAT's and safer on the engine.

Meth os only 1/2 the battle, The added timing can be had as well with the cooler dense air charge, and even gain more power.

I only recommend you do not have your tune be "meth dependent", unless you have a wide band and monitor your A/F ratio's all the time... If you tune your car to rely on the meth to spray to provide you with the proper a/f, and avoid knock with your added timing, your putting your faith on a secondary system that could fail, via fuse blow, or meth run empty, or pump fail, and you would not know your running lean... For your power level use the 625ml jet or the #6 I believe on the Snow kit, and take advantage of the added power the meth can provide, but also tune it so that (just in case) the meth does not spray, you'll still be safe and ok with your tune when you go WOT.

Just my 2 cents and my personal experience.

Good luck

Clint
Clint@A.I.R. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 12:37 AM   #3
BlownSS

 
BlownSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Posts: 1,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint@A.I.R. View Post
I only recommend you do not have your tune be "meth dependent", ........ but also tune it so that (just in case) the meth does not spray, you'll still be safe and ok with your tune when you go WOT.

Just my 2 cents and my personal experience.

Good luck

Clint

Yeah, My tune is from Jannetty Racing, and I dont want to NEED to have it so I wont tune for it at all times.......I will probably be buying my kit from him if it is one that he carries. It has a fairly conservative tune now and the 536rwhp last time was on a fairly humid day so the lower AIT will help also. Thanks for your two cents!
__________________
2010 IOM SS/RS LS3, Hennessey HPE550 Polished Magnuson TVS2300 Supercharger. 3.4 Pulley. Kooks long tube headers / high flow cats. GHL Full exhaust. ZL1 Fuel Pump/ADM FPCM. MSW Bap. JRE ZL1 Race cam with new springs/pushrods/Trunion Upgrade. FIC 850cc injectors. ZR1 Map sensor. CAI Induction. JRE Tune.
BlownSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 01:03 AM   #4
Supercharged SS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sandy Hook, CT
Posts: 12,021
I would def do it. If not for more power but just the added insurance for your engine. That's the most important attribute to me. Then you get the ancillary stuff, like lower iat's and ability to throw some timing at it. For what little it costs, it's a no brainer. Have Ted hook you up!
Supercharged SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 01:31 AM   #5
CamaroFTW

 
CamaroFTW's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS-Rally Yellow
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Palm Bay, FL
Posts: 1,287
Send a message via MSN to CamaroFTW
Simple answer is yes you should. It's not all about the increased HP (which you can expect (+25-40) with Meth injection but as you said protection for the rest of your engines parts. Running the Snow system with all the protection with safeinjection, bypass solenoid, and gauges and LED's for meth level, flow, and system power.
Trunk mounted 2.5 gal tank and all interior gauges and LED's mounted in the center console. Love it!
CamaroFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 03:15 AM   #6
BlownSS

 
BlownSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Posts: 1,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroFTW View Post
Simple answer is yes you should. It's not all about the increased HP (which you can expect (+25-40) with Meth injection but as you said protection for the rest of your engines parts. Running the Snow system with all the protection with safeinjection, bypass solenoid, and gauges and LED's for meth level, flow, and system power.
Trunk mounted 2.5 gal tank and all interior gauges and LED's mounted in the center console. Love it!

Awesome! PIctures of your setup?
__________________
2010 IOM SS/RS LS3, Hennessey HPE550 Polished Magnuson TVS2300 Supercharger. 3.4 Pulley. Kooks long tube headers / high flow cats. GHL Full exhaust. ZL1 Fuel Pump/ADM FPCM. MSW Bap. JRE ZL1 Race cam with new springs/pushrods/Trunion Upgrade. FIC 850cc injectors. ZR1 Map sensor. CAI Induction. JRE Tune.
BlownSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 05:43 AM   #7
usmc8411
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 camaro
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: hannibal mo
Posts: 210
Why wouldnt you run a meth set-up if you could?
usmc8411 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 07:08 AM   #8
BlownSS

 
BlownSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Posts: 1,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc8411 View Post
Why wouldnt you run a meth set-up if you could?
I DO plan on running one...just trying to figure which certain one that I need and which ones are proven performers......I do NOT want it to fail and blow the motor.
__________________
2010 IOM SS/RS LS3, Hennessey HPE550 Polished Magnuson TVS2300 Supercharger. 3.4 Pulley. Kooks long tube headers / high flow cats. GHL Full exhaust. ZL1 Fuel Pump/ADM FPCM. MSW Bap. JRE ZL1 Race cam with new springs/pushrods/Trunion Upgrade. FIC 850cc injectors. ZR1 Map sensor. CAI Induction. JRE Tune.
BlownSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 02:02 PM   #9
Jessika
Account Suspended
 
Drives: Anything Blown
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,197
I know you don't want to hear from us, but I don't have anything bad to say...
So here it is,

Meth isnt bad as long as it is not ran through the blower(and properly tuned). And what the above posters have said. I just wanted to throw that in. We have a set of rotors here that had meth sprayed through them (im sure with a meth dependent tune) and there is ZERO coating left on them.

Last edited by Jessika; 09-27-2010 at 02:13 PM.
Jessika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 02:39 PM   #10
BlownSS

 
BlownSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Posts: 1,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessika@Magnacharger View Post
I know you don't want to hear from us, but I don't have anything bad to say...
So here it is,
Yes, I did want to hear from you!


so as long as i put the injector before the throttle body, I would be okay?
__________________
2010 IOM SS/RS LS3, Hennessey HPE550 Polished Magnuson TVS2300 Supercharger. 3.4 Pulley. Kooks long tube headers / high flow cats. GHL Full exhaust. ZL1 Fuel Pump/ADM FPCM. MSW Bap. JRE ZL1 Race cam with new springs/pushrods/Trunion Upgrade. FIC 850cc injectors. ZR1 Map sensor. CAI Induction. JRE Tune.
BlownSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 03:26 PM   #11
old motorhead

 
Drives: Maggie blown LS3 vette
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SE TX
Posts: 1,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlownSS View Post
Yes, I did want to hear from you!


so as long as i put the injector before the throttle body, I would be okay?
Nope, they don't want it to go through the blower. If you somehow inject it under the blower, you will have a hard time with getting an even distribution between cylinders. I haven't done meth injection, but have done WW fluid injection upwind of the blower on an MP112 and MP122. I've done it for several years and thousands of miles. No ill effects other than blue rotors. No change in boost. You don't get the increased octane with the WW fluid, but you do get a cooling effect.

Jessika, is the coating different on the MP blowers vs the TVS? Or, for that matter, are the MP rotors even coated?
old motorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:42 PM   #12
FASST 1
 
FASST 1's Avatar
 
Drives: Black 1SS
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessika@Magnacharger View Post
I know you don't want to hear from us, but I don't have anything bad to say...
So here it is,

Meth isnt bad as long as it is not ran through the blower(and properly tuned). And what the above posters have said. I just wanted to throw that in. We have a set of rotors here that had meth sprayed through them (im sure with a meth dependent tune) and there is ZERO coating left on them.

And how would you accomplish this with a top mount supercharger like a Maggy, KB or Whipple?
__________________
FASST 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 07:14 PM   #13
Loud Pedal
 
Loud Pedal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS Black on black
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tempe
Posts: 73
Yeah, what he said.
Loud Pedal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 07:32 PM   #14
Slowhawk
LSX specialty shop

 
Drives: 1999 Trans Am
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bridgewater,Ma
Posts: 1,651
As said above. Magnacharger does not recommend meth because it can eat the rotors from what I'm told. We've installed alot of kit's on maggie cars but it can void the warrenty of the blower itself. I would still meth it.

On the other hand,some other blowers do not get affected from meth like centrificals because it's sprayed after the blower. I know for a fact Kenne Bell does warrenty the blower with meth.They told me I could dump as much methenol as I wanted through it.

Either way, a good methenol kit will work wonders.We've done a bunch of them which live life on methenol,dual nozzles maxed out and have never seen an engine failure from it.
__________________


Bridgewater, Ma
(508)659-4454
Slowhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 12:44 PM   #15
Jessika
Account Suspended
 
Drives: Anything Blown
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,197
This is an extreme example of your blower on meth.



Because our rotors are zero clearance, the rotor finish is very important.

As far as how you should go about meth injection, I've got nothing. I suggest homework & research. Just like modding your car while under factory warranty, you may need to pay to play... same goes for the supercharger. Just because it voids your supercharger warranty doesnt mean you will gain no benefit from it. But, beware that the benefit may come with a cost.
Jessika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 02:15 PM   #16
JANNETTYRACING
PRESIDENT CALIBRATOR JRE

 
JANNETTYRACING's Avatar
 
Drives: YELLOW 2013 ZL1 AUTO
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ON THE DYNO WATERBURY CT.
Posts: 9,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessika@Magnacharger View Post
This is an extreme example of your blower on meth.



Because our rotors are zero clearance, the rotor finish is very important.

As far as how you should go about meth injection, I've got nothing. I suggest homework & research. Just like modding your car while under factory warranty, you may need to pay to play... same goes for the supercharger. Just because it voids your supercharger warranty doesnt mean you will gain no benefit from it. But, beware that the benefit may come with a cost.
What Model Supercharger?
What vehicle was this on?
How Many Miles?
How Much Blower Overspeed was involved?
Did the supercharger Fail as a Result of the coating coming Off? The rotors appear to be fine otherwise.
Was it sprayed with Straight Meth or Water Meth?
What is the Coating on the rotors made of?

Does this Apply to Current Production Magnachargers?

I would think that Gasoline would have the same affect on this particular coating since it has Ethanol in it if it were Carburated.

Ted.
__________________
Technical information, Parts Sales, Professional Installation, and Custom Dyno Tuning.
Please vist our web sites for all your performance needs!
Ted Jannetty
Jannetty Racing Ent Inc.
2984 East Main St.
Waterbury Ct. 06705
203-753-7223
tedj@jannettyracing.com
www.jannettyracing.com
www.turboaddictionparts.com
Performance Parts
JANNETTYRACING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 02:44 PM   #17
old motorhead

 
Drives: Maggie blown LS3 vette
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SE TX
Posts: 1,300
Probably a TVS. I'm sure it's not an early MP112. I don't think even the MP112HH/MP122 rotors have that much twist. One thing to consider is that even though you may lose a little coating, the fluid injected is going to take up a bit of the extra clearance The only time you need a good seal is when you're under boost. My Snow system starts coming in at 4psi and is full bore at 6psi. I probably have 60K+ on that MP122. I've been spinning the snot out of it from day one. Started with a 2.8" pulley and more recently a 2.6".
old motorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 05:00 PM   #18
Clint@A.I.R.
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 99' Camaro 404 TT
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Wheat Ridge
Posts: 324
Quote:
What Model Supercharger?
What vehicle was this on?
How Many Miles?
How Much Blower Overspeed was involved?
Did the supercharger Fail as a Result of the coating coming Off? The rotors appear to be fine otherwise.
Was it sprayed with Straight Meth or Water Meth?
What is the Coating on the rotors made of?

Does this Apply to Current Production Magnachargers?
Great questions, you beat me to it. Curious on Jessika@Magnacharger's answer
Clint@A.I.R. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 05:02 PM   #19
Slowhawk
LSX specialty shop

 
Drives: 1999 Trans Am
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bridgewater,Ma
Posts: 1,651
Ted, It happens to alot of the Magnachargers with anykind of methenol solution.Seen alot of those throughout the years.

I would figure since alot of people run methenol kit's now and the Magnacharger definitely benefit's from it that someone would come up with a coating that doesn't get affected by it.
__________________


Bridgewater, Ma
(508)659-4454
Slowhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 06:11 PM   #20
Jessika
Account Suspended
 
Drives: Anything Blown
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,197
Since I don't have the answers to the questions, I passed this to Jon. Hes been buried in work today and says he will answer ASAP. He is the one that shot the pictures of the blower.
Sorry guys... but we will get you answered!
Jessika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 06:38 PM   #21
Whipple Charged
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2008 Chevrolet 2500HD
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowhawk View Post
Ted, It happens to alot of the Magnachargers with anykind of methenol solution.Seen alot of those throughout the years.

I would figure since alot of people run methenol kit's now and the Magnacharger definitely benefit's from it that someone would come up with a coating that doesn't get affected by it.
Hard coat anodizing or the proper PTFE coating is resistant to it. You have to tear it all apart and mask off, etc. and I'm sure void the warranty.

But I will tell you, methanol itself, is highly corrosive, and if it gets to a certain mixture of oxygen, water and meth, it will turn to acid and eat everything in its path. As long as the motor runs for a moment with the meth system off, this will not be a problem, but I've seen some systems that don't have check valves and during vacuum (idle, shut off, highway), it will suck the water/meth from the system and then when you shut the car off, it will sometimes eat chunks of material. So just make sure you run a check valve so you don't get any leakage.
Whipple Charged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 06:38 PM   #22
ipimpthisc
Banned
 
Drives: @twinturbo, cammed, intrcooled@
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nyc, EAST COAST HEAVY HITTERS
Posts: 745
Send a message via AIM to ipimpthisc
wow this is eye popping, what about just straight water inj..i have of this before also
ipimpthisc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 06:43 PM   #23
aet08
 
Drives: c
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: c
Posts: 629
do centrifugal blowers like vortech have this issue?
aet08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 06:56 PM   #24
Slowhawk
LSX specialty shop

 
Drives: 1999 Trans Am
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bridgewater,Ma
Posts: 1,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by aet08 View Post
do centrifugal blowers like vortech have this issue?

nope.
__________________


Bridgewater, Ma
(508)659-4454
Slowhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 07:00 PM   #25
Slowhawk
LSX specialty shop

 
Drives: 1999 Trans Am
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bridgewater,Ma
Posts: 1,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipple Charged View Post
Hard coat anodizing or the proper PTFE coating is resistant to it. You have to tear it all apart and mask off, etc. and I'm sure void the warranty.

But I will tell you, methanol itself, is highly corrosive, and if it gets to a certain mixture of oxygen, water and meth, it will turn to acid and eat everything in its path. As long as the motor runs for a moment with the meth system off, this will not be a problem, but I've seen some systems that don't have check valves and during vacuum (idle, shut off, highway), it will suck the water/meth from the system and then when you shut the car off, it will sometimes eat chunks of material. So just make sure you run a check valve so you don't get any leakage.
Yes it is. I put some in an aluminum cup for awhile to test. Alittle tap with a hammer and it shattered.

Not trying to scare anyone.I recently pulled apart a C5R 427ci we built 5 years ago.Ran 14lbs of boost from a procharger and went through an easy 20-30 gallons of 100% methenol. There was no damage to the aluminum parts of the motor and the pistons/valves looked new from the methenol.
We also always run check valves so it doesn't siphon. I'd say it's safe to everything except maybe the maggie rotors.
__________________


Bridgewater, Ma
(508)659-4454
Slowhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water Meth Injection Q & A, lets talk CMGS from Coolingmist! coolingmist Forced Induction - V6 17 03-22-2012 05:52 AM
DIY - Meth Injection Install FASST 1 Camaro DIY & HOW-TO instructions & discussions 20 02-16-2012 04:00 PM
Water/Meth Injection choices benjj Forced Induction - V8 39 07-21-2011 09:50 PM
PERRIN Performance Water/Methanol Injection Kit PERRIN_JOHN Forced Induction 4 03-17-2010 09:57 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.