Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
HeadlightArmor
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics

Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics Camaro ZL1 specific topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-30-2010, 08:14 PM   #276
superstockcam
Member
 
superstockcam's Avatar
 
Drives: a
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: here
Posts: 931
I like the idea but that type of hood inlet is a dust nightmare unless its dedicated to the intake. if they bring back ABM I will be very disappointed.... "greedy 3610 member"
__________________
.
superstockcam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 08:18 PM   #277
JusticePete
Rebel Leader
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven87 View Post
And what if the GT500 owner does the same thing - a simple pulley and exhaust change?

Plus, the GT500 owner can go to his friendly Ford dealer, put some money down and drive his GT500 out the door again with around 650 HP that is still warranted!

Expensive? Yep. But how fast do ya wanna go?

Whatever you do, don't underestimate the GT500, especially the '11. It's already at 550 HP and handles very, very well.

B-O-N-E S-T-O-C-K.

Sure, it's $55k so I'm hoping the Z at least equals it in power and comes in for less money. But I've driven the Z06 and the GT500 - I can tell you from behind the wheel experience: don't overlook OR underestimate the Shelby...
Handling is something I know a bit about.







The 2011 Mustang did add a front chassis brace and a slightly larger diameter rear bar with slightly different coils and damping to make some improvement in the handling. You can see the '11 OE Mustang clocked off a decent lap time with a highly skilled drive behind the wheel. You also read about snap oversteer in the Mustang. I personally don't share that view. The Saleen Mustang doesn't communicate to the driver in a normal voice. The Mustang whispers in your ear and if you don't listen carefully kicks you in the head.

The Camaro communicates better to the driver. It is easier to drive fast. In this Shootout the Camaro was faster, BUT the Mustang out accelerated the Camaro and Out braked the Camaro. The Camaro pulled 1.4 Gs in the corners compared to the Saleen Mustang's 1.23 Gs.

The inherent advantage to the Mustang is it is lighter.

The inherent advantage to the Camaro is the ZETA II platform.
__________________
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 09:22 PM   #278
nester7929
Rice Harvester
 
nester7929's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Mustang 5.0
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Waco, Texas
Posts: 1,379
I like it. I think the vented hood looks better than the hood with the scoop. I wish they would have put the window in the hood like they did on the ZR-1, but I'm sure we'll see an aftermarket of that.
nester7929 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 10:20 PM   #279
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,345
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven87 View Post
And what if the GT500 owner does the same thing - a simple pulley and exhaust change?

Plus, the GT500 owner can go to his friendly Ford dealer, put some money down and drive his GT500 out the door again with around 650 HP that is still warranted!

Expensive? Yep. But how fast do ya wanna go?

Whatever you do, don't underestimate the GT500, especially the '11. It's already at 550 HP and handles very, very well.

B-O-N-E S-T-O-C-K.

Sure, it's $55k so I'm hoping the Z at least equals it in power and comes in for less money. But I've driven the Z06 and the GT500 - I can tell you from behind the wheel experience: don't overlook OR underestimate the Shelby...
I love this. . .you act like you know exactly what gm is going to offer. . .

yes the GT500 is a great car. but we don't know what all GM has planned for. we don't know what GMPP will have for the z28. and we don't even know what the stats are on this Z28. so what if the engine cover says LSA. It's not official until there's a press release. Who's to say the Z28 will ONLY have 556 hp. who's to say it won't out handle a GT500? we don't know. this is all speculation. . .

55k for a gt500? is that out the door or is that with the SVT pack? because last I checked the MSRP was like 48950ish plus destination charge.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:01 PM   #280
ViperTomcat
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 Avenger Heat
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,702
The local Ford dealer had a 2011 GT500 with the SVT pack for 55,450 out the door with TTL. They had it about two weeks and sure enough, it was out the door and I've seen it rolling around town.

Amazing car. My salesman buddy took me for a drive in it the morning it came in, and let me tell you..it was a shock. It was like the bottled God's fury, put it into a car and said "go at it". After we went for the drive they put it on the local performance shops dyno and it produced 489 RWHP, scary.
ViperTomcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:10 PM   #281
JoeFire
 
JoeFire's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS Transformers Edition
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 68
Awesome!! Looks great. I'm wondering however, why you would have a tow hitch on it even in testing? Trying to move mountains I guess.
__________________

2010 2SS/RS Transformers Edition w/ sun roof. Delivered 7 Dec 2009



2012 Transformers bumper vinyl| Rear tire vent vinyl by SLP|Airaid CAI|Kooks headers w/ high flow cats, Borla S type cat back| Customized tune from Lew, Dyno'd 421HP and 375TQ at 4600' and 82ºF
JoeFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:13 PM   #282
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,345
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperTomcat View Post
The local Ford dealer had a 2011 GT500 with the SVT pack for 55,450 out the door with TTL. They had it about two weeks and sure enough, it was out the door and I've seen it rolling around town.

Amazing car. My salesman buddy took me for a drive in it the morning it came in, and let me tell you..it was a shock. It was like the bottled God's fury, put it into a car and said "go at it". After we went for the drive they put it on the local performance shops dyno and it produced 489 RWHP, scary.
well 55k out the door isn't bad at all. and that's why I was asking him.

I give respect to the shelby, but seeing how we don't know what the Z28 is capable of or what it offers it's hard to tell which will be the better deal performance wise. either way the camaro is for me. . .
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 12:13 AM   #283
GM4lyfe
A GM nut-swinger!
 
GM4lyfe's Avatar
 
Drives: A Car
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFire View Post
Awesome!! Looks great. I'm wondering however, why you would have a tow hitch on it even in testing? Trying to move mountains I guess.
Its to tow test equipment. The red covers are QD's where the test equipment plugs into.

This car is going down the same path as the ZR1 did. Pictures leaked, mid to late year and then it made public apperiances early the next year. Then finally GM release public press releases early to mid the next year.


I predict GM will release full info about it early next year if not sooner.
__________________
2004 GTO Quicksilver
2009 G8 Liquid Red
2005 CTS-V Black Raven
GM4lyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 03:46 AM   #284
Punk_rider
 
Punk_rider's Avatar
 
Drives: VW Typ 166 + Black 1LE
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 688
Too bad they didn't used the Paris auto show "modial de l'automobile" - which is said to be the biggest on earth - to release at least the look of the Z28.
__________________
I'm kindly asking: "May I have a supercharged Z28 with 550 hp please? By the end of 2009 would be awesome. Thanks"
Punk_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 11:49 AM   #285
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,020
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punk_rider View Post
Too bad they didn't used the Paris auto show "modial de l'automobile" - which is said to be the biggest on earth - to release at least the look of the Z28.
They barely sell the Camaro in Europe, why would they debut the Z28 over there?
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 12:53 PM   #286
Kyle2k
LVL 50 Troll Stomper
 
Kyle2k's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 3,250
SO....where is the power steering pump?
__________________
Kyle2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 12:58 PM   #287
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle2k View Post
SO....where is the power steering pump?
Maybe they had to relocate it; OR - electric? I gotta' look at some pics'...
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 01:00 PM   #288
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,040
I don't see one on the CTS-V LSA...

Edit - there it is... next to the TB :(
Attached Images
 
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 01:11 PM   #289
Kyle2k
LVL 50 Troll Stomper
 
Kyle2k's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 3,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
I don't see one on the CTS-V LSA...

Edit - there it is... next to the TB :(
Is the LSA pulley tensioner spring loaded too or?
__________________
Kyle2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 01:13 PM   #290
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle2k View Post
Is the LSA pulley tensioner spring loaded too or?
Well - there's a tensioner for the V in that image, and I can see one from Z28, so I believe so. I'm certainly no expert though
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 02:48 PM   #291
a_Username


 
a_Username's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS Camaro
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 3,893
I don't know what to do. Keep the SS and mod it or wait for the Z/28?!
a_Username is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 02:56 PM   #292
karr1008
Supercharging
 
karr1008's Avatar
 
Drives: 20XX Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: N. Alabama
Posts: 238
I wonder how much would this LSA on the Z28 can handle power wise. Correct me if I am wrong but, I've heard that the engine in the 2011 GT500 can handle up to 1000 Hp before doing internals. wow.
__________________
_____________________________________
In Camaro Standby mode
karr1008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 03:28 PM   #293
GM4lyfe
A GM nut-swinger!
 
GM4lyfe's Avatar
 
Drives: A Car
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle2k View Post
Is the LSA pulley tensioner spring loaded too or?
The powersteering pump is almost allways on the left side or driverside of the engine. The belt for the S/C is going to have an tensioner on it and yes its spring loaded. I don't think I've ever seen a non-springloaded tensioner on a OEM setup. In the "Z/28" picture its next to the fuse box and ECM. The S/C pulley is right next to the TB follow the belt to the left.
__________________
2004 GTO Quicksilver
2009 G8 Liquid Red
2005 CTS-V Black Raven
GM4lyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 08:31 PM   #294
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
I don't see one on the CTS-V LSA...

Edit - there it is... next to the TB :(
That's a Cadillac LSA. No idea one way or the other...but they may have altered some things for this engine.

No way to know until it comes out, but I'm lovin' the eye-candy so far!!

It seems they did away with both the Leno and "Ram Air" style hood. Good!! Too many people have done that already.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 02:37 AM   #295
steddy2112
 
steddy2112's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Cobalt SS
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Salem County, NJ
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qdiesel View Post
I have to disagree with this because the new C7's are coming in 2013 and along with that ,Z06 and ZR1, so I wouldn't bet on that theory. Just my two cents.
The Z06 will not come right away, and don't expect the ZR1 to make the jump.

They won't make a Camaro that out performs a Z06...unless you're talking about seating performance LMAO
__________________
steddy2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 07:22 AM   #296
John Shields
"Back in Black"
 
John Shields's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 1LT/RS Black w/Silver Stripes
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,329
Some one post the VIN number so we can see if it's really a Z-28. The pictures once again say nothing other than it's a Camaro with a different engine. Could be a new up model from the SS and not even a 28 at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperTomcat View Post
The local Ford dealer had a 2011 GT500 with the SVT pack for 55,450 out the door with TTL. They had it about two weeks and sure enough, it was out the door and I've seen it rolling around town.

Amazing car. My salesman buddy took me for a drive in it the morning it came in, and let me tell you..it was a shock. It was like the bottled God's fury, put it into a car and said "go at it". After we went for the drive they put it on the local performance shops dyno and it produced 489 RWHP, scary.
489 isn't scary at all... that's easily obtained in an SS right now with some mods. I want to see the Z around 650 or so at the wheels. THAT would be scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Handling is something I know a bit about.



Some of those 3rd gear maneuvers at such high RPM's makes my body hurt. Shift man, SHIFT!
__________________

To the Jerkoff in SW Denver Driving the Black Camaro:
Quit making us look bad by driving like a tool and cutting people off (my wife included)!
John Shields is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 07:29 AM   #297
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,345
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Shields View Post
Some one post the VIN number so we can see if it's really a Z-28. The pictures once again say nothing other than it's a Camaro with a different engine. Could be a new up model from the SS and not even a 28 at all.



489 isn't scary at all... that's easily obtained in an SS right now with some mods. I want to see the Z around 650 or so at the wheels. THAT would be scary.
why would the vin be different if it's a test mule? and how would you even know? a random designation for the engine difference? hmmmmmmmmmmm I highly doubt that.



I don't see GM selling a Z28 with 650 at the wheels. . .now modifying one to do that. . .I could see that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 09:14 AM   #298
CamaroSpike23
Mr. Nitpicky
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,861
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I forget what FbodFather said, but hideaways are a no-go these days.
safety reasons prohibit them from using them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
Maybe they had to relocate it; OR - electric? I gotta' look at some pics'...
hmmmm.... free hp anyone?


Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
I don't see one on the CTS-V LSA...

Edit - there it is... next to the TB :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
Well - there's a tensioner for the V in that image, and I can see one from Z28, so I believe so. I'm certainly no expert though



Quote:
Originally Posted by GM4lyfe View Post
The powersteering pump is almost allways on the left side or driverside of the engine. The belt for the S/C is going to have an tensioner on it and yes its spring loaded. I don't think I've ever seen a non-springloaded tensioner on a OEM setup. In the "Z/28" picture its next to the fuse box and ECM. The S/C pulley is right next to the TB follow the belt to the left.
almost always doesnt mean always. with the LS series architecture, it is most often found on the drivers side. LT series had the pump on the pass side and the resevoir on the drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
I don't see GM selling a Z28 with 650 at the wheels. . .now modifying one to do that. . .I could see that.
maybe not at the wheels, but they never market the RWHP of vehicles. too many variables in play. but 650 reliably at the crank.... still a potent performer.
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 09:59 AM   #299
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,020
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Shields View Post
Some one post the VIN number so we can see if it's really a Z-28. The pictures once again say nothing other than it's a Camaro with a different engine. Could be a new up model from the SS and not even a 28 at all.

The reason why we believe its a Z28 is because it dovetails perfectly with all that we've heard about the Z28 so far.

489 isn't scary at all... that's easily obtained in an SS right now with some mods. I want to see the Z around 650 or so at the wheels. THAT would be scary.

GM won't be selling a $100,000 Z28 any time soon.

Some of those 3rd gear maneuvers at such high RPM's makes my body hurt. Shift man, SHIFT!
When I got a ride around in that car, shifting was the last thing on my mind. I was more concerned with when he was going to hit the brakes. And the next day, my body did hurt ... my neck was sore. Not sure if it was from the car or the motel pillows though.
.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 11:58 AM   #300
BLUESMOKE69
 
BLUESMOKE69's Avatar
 
Drives: Saturn Astra 08
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
why would the vin be different if it's a test mule? and how would you even know? a random designation for the engine difference? hmmmmmmmmmmm I highly doubt that.



I don't see GM selling a Z28 with 650 at the wheels. . .now modifying one to do that. . .I could see that.
I totally agree....I hope GM will give us a great starting point for future mods. 500 hp bone stock would be perfect with plenty of room to mod if someone so desires. I believe GM will do the right thing.

Personally, this HP thing is really getting out of hand!! Folks we're talking super car status for what 50Gs. As some of you mentioned, no Camaro will get more HP than a Corvette.

On one of the test mules, the plate says.......029 m 465 MICHIGAN. This is just a pure out of this world guess..."code Z/29 with 465hp". PURE 100% SPECULATION!!!!

I also noticed two other mules....028m564 plate and 028m899 plate. Imagine for all you hp junkies......"899 hp"........ I would love it GM would have let's say more than one engine choice.
__________________
FORTIS CADERE, CEDERE NON POTEST
BLUESMOKE69 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
2011 camaro z28, 2012 camaro z-28, 2012 camaro z28, 2012 z-28, 2012 z28, 2013 camaro z-28, 2013 camaro z28, 2013 z28, 2014 camaro z28, 2014 z28, camaro, camaro z28, camaro z28 forum, chevrolet, ls9, lsa, new camaro z-28, new camaro z28, new camaro z28 forum, new z-28, new z28, new z28 forum, z/28, z28, z28 forum, z28 spy photos, z28 spy shots, z28 spyshots

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
5th Gen Suspension -- The Book JusticePete Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 148 09-04-2013 02:28 PM
GM unveils Jay Leno Camaro, Camaro Synergy, Camaro Chroma, Camaro Dusk at SEMA irocnroll 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 101 02-27-2012 12:25 PM
Official Camaro Convertible CONCEPT Press Release Tran Camaro Convertible Forum 12 11-18-2009 07:05 PM
Answeres to questions I have stumbled on dieseldave24v 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 13 02-23-2009 06:56 PM
Camaro (concept) Press Release!! Pencil.Fight 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 4 07-21-2008 03:33 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.