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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 10-03-2010, 06:53 PM   #1
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A6 guys what are you using to keep you rotating assembly from turning..

when you are torquing down a new balancer bolt?
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:57 PM   #2
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You'll need a flywheel holding tool. Kent Moore J 42386-A

It bolts in place of the starter.
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:24 PM   #3
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You can buy the flywheel "holder" tool, or you can just pop the peep window off on the bellhousing and wedge a large screw driver and/or pry bar up in there to lock the flexplate/converter in place. Either way works fine.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:41 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Damian View Post
You can buy the flywheel "holder" tool, or you can just pop the peep window off on the bellhousing and wedge a large screw driver and/or pry bar up in there to lock the flexplate/converter in place. Either way works fine.
+1 for the big screwdriver/pry bar, done it a bunch of times.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:57 AM   #5
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To do it right, I'd go with the holding tool. Along with the installation tool, and the procedure in the service manual. It has to go on to 240 lb ft with the old bolt, then depth measured... then a new bolt put on to tq and then several angle meter steps...

I'd rather not do 240 on one tooth with a screwdriver, plus all the other steps of torquing the new bolt to angles... the holder and installation tools makes it a one person job and it get's done right.

At 240 lb ft, I'm hanging off the tq wrench. Kind of awkward for a second person to hold that much with a screwdriver on one tooth. So some will hammer the balancer on with an impact to depth using the old bolt and then tq on the new bolt to the specific angles. The problem with that is the washer surface and crank threads were not meant for that kind of abuse. That's why it's torqued on to 240 using the installation tool.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
To do it right,
.........I'd rather not do 240 on one tooth with a screwdriver,


At 240 lb ft, I'm hanging off the tq wrench.
I've often wondered about this, and maybe my mis-conception is in the size of tools I work with...

This is in no way a slam, and I intend no offense...

You are either a little guy, or the torque wrench is out of calibration, or something...

torque is rotational leverage...
ex: A 1' bar with ten pounds hanging on it = 10 ft lbs. A 2 foot bar with the same weight = 20 ft/lbs. etc... up to a four foot long torque wrench = 40 foot/lbs.

We typically use a four foot torque wrench for our small stuff, up to 600 ft/lbs. Yes, that is very small for us... I torque some bolts up to 55,000 and 60,000 ft/lbs.

Back to the subject... if you are hanging off the wrench for 240 ft/lbs, and your wrench is 2 feet long, then you either weigh less than 120 lbs, or you're not able to get any good leverage...

The floor hands on this and most any other rig fail to understand this and destroy many torque wrenches due to overloading them... We have to tighten riser dogs up to 600 ft/lbs. They perform this with a 4 foot long wrench... and it always ends up that they can't hear the click... and so two of them get on the end of the wrench and bounce it. Bouncing exponentially increases the force exerted, and their combined weight of 400+ lbs at the end of the wrench is already exerting 1600 ft/lbs...before the bounce.

How do I get them to understand this... Suffice it to say that we spend huge amounts of money on torque wrenches, and I keep my personal use wrenches locked up at all times...


I waste my breath telling all the guys on the drill floor that I could care less if the damn thing clicks... I wish they would do away with the click device... Regardless of whether it clicks or not, if you have 120 lbs on the end of a two foot wrench, that is 240 ft/lbs. If you have 60 lbs on the end of a four foot wrench, that is 240 ft/lbs... or 80 lbs on a 3 foot wrench..... etc....

Where does all this go... Bear in mind your personal weight in reference to torquing a bolt...Measure the wrench... know your weight, and do not over torque stuff... Which is often going to lead to a more catastrophic failure when the bolt shears under load... Loose bolts back out over time, tight elongated stretched bolts fail suddenly... there goes the harmonic balancer through the hood across the highway and into another vehicle...

Over exagerrated the last but you get the point... wheel lugs and suspension items are just as susceptible...
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:15 PM   #7
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"hanging off" was probably an over exageration on my part. But 240 is a lot of tq, and my point is - that's a lot of tq to be holding back with a screwdriver on one tooth of the flywheel/flexplate. Sure it can be done, but to do it right, I prefer to use the J - tools - the holding tool and installation tool. Several places online sell them. And when your done, you can ebay them. Never had a problem when using those. I've seen others come back when not installed correctly or just hammered on with an impact gun.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
"hanging off" was probably an over exageration on my part. But 240 is a lot of tq, and my point is - that's a lot of tq to be holding back with a screwdriver on one tooth of the flywheel/flexplate. Sure it can be done, but to do it right, I prefer to use the J - tools - the holding tool and installation tool. Several places online sell them. And when your done, you can ebay them. Never had a problem when using those. I've seen others come back when not installed correctly or just hammered on with an impact gun.
I took it as an over exageration on your part, you sound like you know how to use a torque wrench and what you're doing.

I was more posting that for others and as a vent session... I agree with you 100%; that is too much torque to hold back with the tip of a screw driver on a single tooth... Thats a great way to end up needing a new flex plate...

I just hate the click wrench's. They are horribly inaccurate if dropped once, and too many people tend to bounce them to get them to click...people also notoriously fail to back the wrench settings off to relax the spring which leads to inaccurate readings...

When we go to 60,000 ft/lbs we are doing it with a hydraulic wrench and we are pumping up to 10,000 psi into them... This is into an intensifier and on to the armature of the wrench... Not too bad. We have in this company, another type of stack, that to loosen the bonnet bolts, you actually pump fluid into the interior of the stud at high enough pressures that the stud elongates and then you simply screw the cap nut off of the stud... Personally, I hate them... but occasionally have to work on them... so there it is...

My dad taught me many years ago how to use one properly and I never forgot... He was/is an aircraft mechanic...

Anyhow, have a great day... Hope to meet you at the Fest if you are going..
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
"hanging off" was probably an over exageration on my part. But 240 is a lot of tq, and my point is - that's a lot of tq to be holding back with a screwdriver on one tooth of the flywheel/flexplate. Sure it can be done, but to do it right, I prefer to use the J - tools - the holding tool and installation tool. Several places online sell them. And when your done, you can ebay them. Never had a problem when using those. I've seen others come back when not installed correctly or just hammered on with an impact gun.
Perhaps you have a misunderstanding on how this is done but you don't hold a tooth with it. Screwdriver/prybar goes between the flexplate and torque converter and is wedged against the bellhousing when one of the converter lugs comes around. No problems, no need for a special tool.
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
+1 for the big screwdriver/pry bar, done it a bunch of times.
Works on any make and model!!
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
I took it as an over exageration on your part, you sound like you know how to use a torque wrench and what you're doing.

I was more posting that for others and as a vent session... I agree with you 100%; that is too much torque to hold back with the tip of a screw driver on a single tooth... Thats a great way to end up needing a new flex plate...

I just hate the click wrench's. They are horribly inaccurate if dropped once, and too many people tend to bounce them to get them to click...people also notoriously fail to back the wrench settings off to relax the spring which leads to inaccurate readings...

When we go to 60,000 ft/lbs we are doing it with a hydraulic wrench and we are pumping up to 10,000 psi into them... This is into an intensifier and on to the armature of the wrench... Not too bad. We have in this company, another type of stack, that to loosen the bonnet bolts, you actually pump fluid into the interior of the stud at high enough pressures that the stud elongates and then you simply screw the cap nut off of the stud... Personally, I hate them... but occasionally have to work on them... so there it is...

My dad taught me many years ago how to use one properly and I never forgot... He was/is an aircraft mechanic...

Anyhow, have a great day... Hope to meet you at the Fest if you are going..

That whole "harmonic balancer bolt through the hood and onto the highway" comment in this thread brought back some memories!! That is no exaggeration! I've seen it happen, and it ain't pretty! That bolt and\or bolt head will do some serious damage to your hood, and anything else that it comes in contact with, regardless of where it exits. Never reuse an old balancer bolt! ...especially one that requires this much torque from the factory. Maybe on an engine that uses a 100 ft\lb..maybe....but not on the new 'Maro. Spend the $20!
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaRSSS View Post
That whole "harmonic balancer bolt through the hood and onto the highway" comment in this thread brought back some memories!! That is no exaggeration! I've seen it happen, and it ain't pretty! That bolt and\or bolt head will do some serious damage to your hood, and anything else that it comes in contact with, regardless of where it exits. Never reuse an old balancer bolt! ...especially one that requires this much torque from the factory. Maybe on an engine that uses a 100 ft\lb..maybe....but not on the new 'Maro. Spend the $20!

really?

I've re-used my bolt over a dozen times now... maybe closing in on two dozen

The fact that you torque it to 200+ lbs means nothing. The fact it's a torque to yield bolt means that you shouldn't re-use it. How much you torque something and if it's a torque to yield bolt are two different things.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:24 PM   #13
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I bought a tool from a LS1Tech member for my LS1 that holds the pulley while you torque the bolt. I am not sure if it will work for my L99.

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