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Old 12-28-2008, 12:50 AM   #69
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I thought people were Camaro enthusiasts on here. Yet, people start to jump all over the Camaro and GM every time some little bump comes up in the road. We haven't heard anything officially from GM on any delay in production yet some people are saying they are considering cancelling their orders. Amazing.
Some little bump? GM getting loans, losing suppliers...these are just little bumps? People are paying over 20,000 for this car...most of us are in the 35k+ range on this car. I'm sorry but when I'm spending this much money I expect it to be everything it was promised to be. There's a line between brand loyalty and making an intelligent purchase...
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:34 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by camaropete View Post
I thought people were Camaro enthusiasts on here. Yet, people start to jump all over the Camaro and GM every time some little bump comes up in the road. We haven't heard anything officially from GM on any delay in production yet some people are saying they are considering cancelling their orders. Amazing.

I have been waiting for 20+ years for this car and frankly waiting a month longer (or even 2 or 3) isn't going to kill me. I want THIS car. I want a Camaro. I don't want a Challenger or a Mustang or a Hyundai. In fact, if they decide not to make the Camaro I probably won't buy anything.

So to GM (and those on here that work for GM), keep your heads down and keep working. I am buying this car no matter when you bring it out. And I am sure that lots of other die-hard Camaro fans will do the same. And for the fake Camaro fans on here, go cancel your orders and get your Challengers and Mustangs. I will be the one laughing at you when your head turns when I drive by.
Wow.. stay classy. Guess what - there are other people that are not in the same situation as you. Some need a car (their only car) as a daily driver, and cannot wait for an indefinite amount of time. So this makes us fake? Right. I put a deposit down a year ago and I was at my dealership at 8:00 am the first day I could place my order. Were you? Just because some want to step back and weigh their options before making the 2nd biggest purchase of their lives, don't feel obligated to get all high and mighty.

This makes us betrayers? Grow up.

I am not a blind GM enthusiast that will defend their shortcomings to the bitter end, I have priorities that go beyond what I drive.

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Originally Posted by StoutFiles
Some little bump? GM getting loans, losing suppliers...these are just little bumps? People are paying over 20,000 for this car...most of us are in the 35k+ range on this car. I'm sorry but when I'm spending this much money I expect it to be everything it was promised to be. There's a line between brand loyalty and making an intelligent purchase...
+1

God forbid we expect a company to deliver on schedule after throwing them a lifeline.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:58 AM   #71
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i might add that a little over 5 an a half years ago when my credit score was under 600 i bought a jeep grand cherokee 33.000 over a 6 year loan--did i get takento the cleaners in finance charges???? you bet you backside i did!!!!!!!!!!!--gut at the deakership i had my grand cherokee in 20 minutes---its pure stupity to say as they did on that forum that people wont get financed-




what they are reaqlly saying is anyone that around 620 can get financed but theyll pay more---orrrrrrr they are sayting they wint accept financing if it costs them 2 or 3000 more--thats what they are saying---- just about anyone can get financed if the want to pay the steep finance charges-- anyoneeeeeeeeeeeee

GM is certainly gonna do everything possible to all customers financed everything possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--they need the sale as much as we want the car.-- like i said --i myself want this --i will have my camaro no matter what kind of financing im forced to accept

Wow this hurt my brain. This type of mentality is one of the reasons this country is in the financial sh**ter. Why don't you just take out 100 pay day loans at 30% interest? And your assertion that anybody can get financed is simply not true. Here is a story about GMAC and the fact that they will not loan to those with credit scores below 700.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...Credit-Scores/

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It's now more difficult than ever to get a car loan -- and that's hurting car dealers as much as consumers.

Reuters reports, "GMAC, the finance company affiliated with General Motors Corp, said on Monday it would pull back from riskier and longer-term auto lending in response to tight credit conditions that has limited its access to funds. GMAC said it would be more conservative in extending car loans, restricting them to U.S. consumers with good credit and to shorter terms." GMAC said in a statement, "The changes include limiting purchases to contracts with a credit score of 700 or above."
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Old 12-28-2008, 08:27 AM   #72
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That Fake camaro fan comment hurt my heart, From what I'm reading and my own personal situation ( IE No car when I return from iraq) a delay puts alot of us in tough spots, leases running out, etc ,etc. I want my camaro more than anything but if there is a 2-3 month delay I may have to get something else possibly a beater and delay buying my camaro till next year or sooner IDK, I already had to jump through hoops to get one ordered out here and If someones want an american muscle car and the camaro gets delayed you can't fault people for going for the next best thing.

We are not betrayers or jumping ship, but someone of us can't realisticly just wait for it, Sure I'll get one eventually if that happens but I'd have to get something else when I get back if there is a delay and then I'd have to save money again

I'm not canceling my order or anything like that I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that if there is a delay it isn't more than a few weeks
Animal

Thanks for your comment regarding the Camaro , and i'm confident your 5thGen will be ready for you after your tour. Be safe

Proud GM Oshawa Camaro Employee.
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:08 AM   #73
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Animal

Thanks for your comment regarding the Camaro , and i'm confident your 5thGen will be ready for you after your tour. Be safe

Proud GM Oshawa Camaro Employee.
Your welcome and thank you for the assurance and support. You've made my day, I was getting kind of worried, thinking about the 5thGen has given me alot to look forward to when I get back.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:00 AM   #74
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Your welcome and thank you for the assurance and support. You've made my day, I was getting kind of worried, thinking about the 5thGen has given me alot to look forward to when I get back.
Its the least i can do to Thank You for serveing your Country and for the Canadian Troops in Afghanistan. We here in North America forget how good we have it because of people like you and others in the USA/Canadian military. Again be safe and i'll do my part here in Oshawa to deliver your new Camaro at the end of your tour of duty.

Mike

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Old 12-28-2008, 10:00 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by bobscogin View Post
You won't find a more loyal Camaro enthusiast than the one sitting at this keyboard... Expressing concerns about them isn't meant as a slam to GM, Chevy, or the Camaro. The problems are real and they affect the future of Camaro. As such, they are an appropriate discussion for this forum...

Bob
Bob, this is definitely the place to come and voice your thoughts, concerns, ask questions, etc, about the Camaro. My issue is that people blow everything way out of proportion and immediately start crying foul, bashing GM and threatening to cancel orders. Voice your concerns, listen to feedback and see what we hear from GM. That's all I am saying. No need to get all bent out of shape because of an unsubstantiated rumor.

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Originally Posted by XAnimal View Post
That Fake camaro fan comment hurt my heart, From what I'm reading and my own personal situation ( IE No car when I return from iraq) a delay puts alot of us in tough spots, leases running out, etc ,etc...
XAnimal, I wasn't trying to be hurtful, especially to someone serving our country (thanks!). And I understand those that are in the situation of basically looking at no car in March. What amazes me is that even if you were the first one to order and GM starts making the car at full steam on 2/16/09, there is no guarantee that you are going to get your car in March. As the original information that was released said, the original allocations were to cover dealers through 3Q. So I am a little surprised by people saying they were planning on having their cars in March. That just isn't realistic for everyone.

Again, we haven't heard anything official from GM. They want this car out as soon as we do. But they aren't going to let a car get out with sub-par quality, especially the people from Oshawa. Hang tight and let's see what happens. I want you and everyone to get their car as soon as possible. It isn't going to hurt to wait until February before making decisions to buy another car.

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Originally Posted by StoutFiles View Post
Some little bump? GM getting loans, losing suppliers...these are just little bumps? People are paying over 20,000 for this car...most of us are in the 35k+ range on this car. I'm sorry but when I'm spending this much money I expect it to be everything it was promised to be. There's a line between brand loyalty and making an intelligent purchase...
Now you are confusing issues. We are talking about people cancelling (or threatening to cancel) orders because of missing HUD or issues with ABL. Those are bumps in the road that everyone is freaking out about. When GM comes out and says they are delaying the car or that it officially won't have ABL, then feel free to take your money elsewhere. But don't start crying before anything has really happened.

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Originally Posted by GLBL WMR View Post
Wow.. stay classy. Guess what - there are other people that are not in the same situation as you. Some need a car (their only car) as a daily driver, and cannot wait for an indefinite amount of time. So this makes us fake? Right. I put a deposit down a year ago and I was at my dealership at 8:00 am the first day I could place my order. Were you? Just because some want to step back and weigh their options before making the 2nd biggest purchase of their lives, don't feel obligated to get all high and mighty.

This makes us betrayers? Grow up.

I am not a blind GM enthusiast that will defend their shortcomings to the bitter end, I have priorities that go beyond what I drive.

+1

God forbid we expect a company to deliver on schedule after throwing them a lifeline.
Again, I am not saying anything about people that need a daily driver car here. But as I said above, I would be surprised at people who were planning on having this car in March if it was their sole means of transportation. That's just poor planning. Everyone can't have their car in March. There's just no way.

And I was at the dealer a year ago getting my name on the waiting list and I was at the door (actually on the phone because I was in PA at the time) the first day ordering was available.

My point is simply this: people keep freaking out based on rumors. That's all they are. None of us know what is really going on here. There is just too much information that we are not privy to. So everyone just take a pill and relax. If the car gets produced on time and has everything "as advertised", then everyone gets their car and they are happy. If it gets delayed or doesn't have ABL in it, then take your money and walk. But that point is nearly two months away. Those people that threatening going to buy another car when we still are that far away and don't have all the information are betrayers. What's it going to hurt to wait until February to see what happens? Absolutely nothing. There will be tons of other cars sitting on lots everywhere and on 2/16/09 you will be able to walk across the street and buy your Mustang, Hyundai or whatever and you will be fine. And as I said, I will wave at you when I go by in my Camaro (whenever I end up getting it) and watch the tear roll down your face.

And to this comment "God forbid we expect a company to deliver on schedule after throwing them a lifeline.", you are the one that needs to grow up. Are you on the AIG thread bashing them for the $100B+ BAILOUT (not loans)? Are you making comments to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac because they made poor decisions on mortgage lending?
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:16 AM   #76
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I'm "all in" on this car regardless of delays, and am a cash buyer. My lease expires in April, but I have a nice GMC truck I can drive until the Camaro comes out. Oh well...we've waited this long so what the heck....
The folks at GM must be pulling their hair out over these problems!
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:30 AM   #77
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Old 12-28-2008, 11:24 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by camaropete View Post
My point is simply this: people keep freaking out based on rumors. That's all they are. None of us know what is really going on here. There is just too much information that we are not privy to. So everyone just take a pill and relax. If the car gets produced on time and has everything "as advertised", then everyone gets their car and they are happy. If it gets delayed or doesn't have ABL in it, then take your money and walk. But that point is nearly two months away. Those people that threatening going to buy another car when we still are that far away and don't have all the information are betrayers. What's it going to hurt to wait until February to see what happens? Absolutely nothing. There will be tons of other cars sitting on lots everywhere and on 2/16/09 you will be able to walk across the street and buy your Mustang, Hyundai or whatever and you will be fine. And as I said, I will wave at you when I go by in my Camaro (whenever I end up getting it) and watch the tear roll down your face.

And to this comment "God forbid we expect a company to deliver on schedule after throwing them a lifeline.", you are the one that needs to grow up. Are you on the AIG thread bashing them for the $100B+ BAILOUT (not loans)? Are you making comments to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac because they made poor decisions on mortgage lending?
Eh, I don't really see anybody "freaking out" here, I see people discussing their situations (novel concept for a discussion forum). Again, calling people "betrayers" for considering their options, regardless of what information they are acting on, is stupid. Nobody here has sworn their allegiance to the Camaro.

As far as the bailouts go, trust me - they have angered me to the point of a stroke and I've had a few heated conversations with people about them because I think they are a travesty. But I fail to see how AIG/Fannie/Freddy is relevant to this forum/thread. However, no matter how much you want to call GM's bailout a loan, it was still a bailout. They are anything but credit worthy, and it is well known that there is no way their going to be able turn their business around in a matter of months to pay that money back after they've been trying to do it for almost a decade with no success. If they were to get no more money from us (which of course they will come the new administration), we could have just set that $17 billion on fire and we would still have the same outcome. Therefore, it is a bailout.



/my involvement in this thread
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:04 PM   #79
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Now you are confusing issues. We are talking about people cancelling (or threatening to cancel) orders because of missing HUD or issues with ABL. Those are bumps in the road that everyone is freaking out about. When GM comes out and says they are delaying the car or that it officially won't have ABL, then feel free to take your money elsewhere. But don't start crying before anything has really happened.
Normally people wouldn't get so worked up over ABL, but given the recent events of GM, EVERY bump in the road will be closely examined. GM has no room for error right now.

Don't start crying? It's called an opinion, that is shared by many, which GM needs to be aware of. If they screw up ABL they need to realize they will pay dearly for it. GM doesn't get to make mistakes anymore.

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If it gets delayed or doesn't have ABL in it, then take your money and walk. But that point is nearly two months away. Those people that threatening going to buy another car when we still are that far away and don't have all the information are betrayers.
Betrayers? GM should be thanking us for the warning. I want EVERYTHING in the Camaro that was promised.

Quote:
And to this comment "God forbid we expect a company to deliver on schedule after throwing them a lifeline.", you are the one that needs to grow up. Are you on the AIG thread bashing them for the $100B+ BAILOUT (not loans)? Are you making comments to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac because they made poor decisions on mortgage lending?
Let's get one thing straight: GM is not in the same class as the banks. We cannot compare apples to oranges. When GM screws up, we cannot say "But the banks screwed up worse!" Of course the banks screwed up. But that's no excuse for GM's problems.

Bailout(n) - Financial rescue. GM was bailed out...a loan saving you from bankruptcy is still a bailout. Don't try to convince anyone in the real world that GM just got a regular loan and everything's rainbows and sunshine over at GM because it's not. GM was bailed out and they will be asking for more money come springtime to keep themselves from Chapter 11. Don't compare GM to the banks but surely don't compare them to a regular company getting a simple loan.

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And as I said, I will wave at you when I go by in my Camaro (whenever I end up getting it) and watch the tear roll down your face.
If I don't have a Camaro at that time then GM is in big, big trouble. I represent the average buyer who takes the best deal...the crowd GM has to have to stay in business. They already have you as a customer no matter what they do to the car. They NEED me. Let's hope for GM's sake that I'm in a Camaro as well.
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:23 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by StoutFiles
If I don't have a Camaro at that time then GM is in big, big trouble. I represent the average buyer who takes the best deal...the crowd GM has to have to stay in business. They already have you as a customer no matter what they do to the car. They NEED me. Let's hope for GM's sake that I'm in a Camaro as well.
BEST POST... EVER!
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:31 PM   #81
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i knew this was gunna happen.=[
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:27 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by camaropete View Post
XAnimal, I wasn't trying to be hurtful, especially to someone serving our country (thanks!). And I understand those that are in the situation of basically looking at no car in March. What amazes me is that even if you were the first one to order and GM starts making the car at full steam on 2/16/09, there is no guarantee that you are going to get your car in March. As the original information that was released said, the original allocations were to cover dealers through 3Q. So I am a little surprised by people saying they were planning on having their cars in March. That just isn't realistic for everyone.

Again, we haven't heard anything official from GM. They want this car out as soon as we do. But they aren't going to let a car get out with sub-par quality, especially the people from Oshawa. Hang tight and let's see what happens. I want you and everyone to get their car as soon as possible. It isn't going to hurt to wait until February before making decisions to buy another car.
I never saw anyone saying they'll be canceling and I'm definately waiting for as long as possible. March/April is perfect and I could probably hold out for another month after that, but if someone is considering options then you shouldn't jump all over them.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:14 PM   #83
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anyone think getting a petition going to have this company give GM its parts will help resolve the issue quicker?
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:29 PM   #84
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I'm "all in" on this car regardless of delays, and am a cash buyer. My lease expires in April, but I have a nice GMC truck I can drive until the Camaro comes out. Oh well...we've waited this long so what the heck....
The folks at GM must be pulling their hair out over these problems!
I'm with you, don't care about any delays, as long as the Camaro is made.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:44 PM   #85
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Ok so great reading, however, lets not get excited over this. Maybe this is the issue with the ABL we have been hearing about. GM still has plenty of time to get this issue resolved.

Have any of our GM employed members heard anything about this?
I would have to put two and two together and assume this is precisely why the interior lighting is being canceled. However there are other interior parts which are necessary that also could delay the Camaro if another supplier is not found soon or this issue isn't resolved quickly enough.. It is time to pull out the Holy Bible and pray
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