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V8 and V6 Transmissions / Driveline (6L80 / 6L50 / TR6060 / AY6) Driveshafts | Differentials | Gears | Rearends | Clutch | Shifters

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Old 10-09-2010, 05:59 PM   #1
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drivetrain strengths and weaknesses

Im hearing all kinds of different info about what the weakest point in the SS's drivetrain is. If i were to mount up some sticky hoosiers for the strip. what would be the first thing to break? what would be the second thing? How strong are these camaros axles, tranny, and diff??
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:00 AM   #2
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This is all heresay, but what I've heard is:

The stock clutch is near the top of it's operating capability. Slicks or alot of extra power wil make short work of the clutch.

Alot of the earlier production cars were having trouble with the half shafts in the rear IIRC.
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:18 AM   #3
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This is all heresay, but what I've heard is:

The stock clutch is near the top of it's operating capability. Slicks or alot of extra power wil make short work of the clutch.

Alot of the earlier production cars were having trouble with the half shafts in the rear IIRC.
Slicks are about the best thing you could do to protect your car. The big sidewall and ability to flex and wrinkle only helps soften the blow of a hard launch. I credit my slicks for keeping my car in one piece for so long on the stock stuff. Prob just jinxed myself!
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:56 AM   #4
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Axles, driveshaft, driveshaft bolts, and more just can't think of them though that's a start
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:45 AM   #5
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thanks for the help. i was thinking about doing some bogart 17s with hoosiers. kinda like u supercharged ss. wut size tire shud i use? and im also going to do subframe bushing and a subframe connector to have a solid rearend. your opinion?
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:26 PM   #6
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early tr6060 models have an issue with the output shaft

clutch.. depending on power levels

trailing arms have been known to bend/break

halfshafts have been known to break

heard of a quite a few blowing the stock differential, even without 4.10's.

It's different for each car, on what breaks first. There are only two bias ply tires available for a 17" wheel. a 28x10" tall full slick from hoosier, or a 26x11.5 et street from mickey thompson. The mickey's are street legal, the hoosier's are not.

There is no set weaklink, as to what will break first. I would throw the slicks on, have about $1,000 sitting in the bank, and then take it to the track to see what happens. The 1,000 should cover anything that breaks.

A good starting point would be differential bushings and trailing arms. Subframe connectors don't do much to these cars, it isn't an f-body.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:16 PM   #7
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Front driveshaft bolts for sure! I'm on my third set.
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Old 10-10-2010, 02:05 PM   #8
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wow well thanks. my friends have been sayin the same thing. get sum tires and go see what breaks. really? subframe connectors dont do much for wheelhop? i was looking at pfadts subframe bushings.
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Old 10-10-2010, 02:30 PM   #9
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I have all the BMR stuff. Have a look at there stuff before you leap.
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Old 10-10-2010, 02:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danhr View Post
early tr6060 models have an issue with the output shaft

clutch.. depending on power levels

trailing arms have been known to bend/break

halfshafts have been known to break

heard of a quite a few blowing the stock differential, even without 4.10's.

It's different for each car, on what breaks first. There are only two bias ply tires available for a 17" wheel. a 28x10" tall full slick from hoosier, or a 26x11.5 et street from mickey thompson. The mickey's are street legal, the hoosier's are not.

There is no set weaklink, as to what will break first. I would throw the slicks on, have about $1,000 sitting in the bank, and then take it to the track to see what happens. The 1,000 should cover anything that breaks.

A good starting point would be differential bushings and trailing arms. Subframe connectors don't do much to these cars, it isn't an f-body.
Love to try the 17" Hooiser's but the only 17" wheels are Bogarts and there big money.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:04 PM   #11
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Love to try the 17" Hooiser's but the only 17" wheels are Bogarts and there big money.
You can say that again brother.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:19 PM   #12
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thanks for the help. i was thinking about doing some bogart 17s with hoosiers. kinda like u supercharged ss. wut size tire shud i use? and im also going to do subframe bushing and a subframe connector to have a solid rearend. your opinion?


Danhr is the man! He knows what the deal is. Back in May, the only 17" slick I could find was a bias ply Hoosier, 28x10x17 and I had to get them direct from my Hoosier East supplier here in CT. And when I called they didn't even have a part number for them. I had to give them the one that I found. Not sure if there are any other options out there.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:21 PM   #13
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Love to try the 17" Hooiser's but the only 17" wheels are Bogarts and there big money.

Yeah but when you think about it...its the most important money youll spend. Its the link between the hp and the ground. Would you run a marathon is loafers? Hell no and if you did someone in the right footwear would go right by you. The first thing I did was get the right tires and its made all the difference in the world. Even if you have to save up, its worth it. Its funny to see all the 600 rwhp that can't get down the track. Figure 2k out the door for the setup I run and its the best $$$ Ive spent on the car.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:34 PM   #14
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i found these hoosier 315/35/17s for like 200 a tire at summit. its dot
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:42 PM   #15
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Love to try the 17" Hooiser's but the only 17" wheels are Bogarts and there big money.
I have been doing this drag racing thing for awhile (not so much yet with my 5th gen however). But try to learn from my mistakes. I will tell you two things

A) If you are going to do something, do it right the first time. If you cheap out on something or try to cut a corner, especially with this hobby, it will end up costing you more money in the end.

B) The "make or break" mod in any car, is traction. And the key element in putting all those ponies down to the ground is your wheel/tire combo. People are more than willing to dish out $1,000+ on a set of headers, but don't want to dish out that money on wheels/tires for the track. And believe it or not, wheels and tires will drop your ET more than any bolt-on.
ESPECIALLY with a manual transmission.

The formula for the best wheel/tire combo was written a long time ago. There is no fancy work around it. You want the smallest (and lightest) in diameter wheel, with as much sidewall as you can. The softer the compount/more flex in the sidewall, the better. This is just a rule of thumb, but can easily be sourced for the best combo for any car.

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Danhr is the man!
This is correct. haha.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:45 PM   #16
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Yeah but when you think about it...its the most important money youll spend. Its the link between the hp and the ground. Would you run a marathon is loafers? Hell no and if you did someone in the right footwear would go right by you. The first thing I did was get the right tires and its made all the difference in the world. Even if you have to save up, its worth it. Its funny to see all the 600 rwhp that can't get down the track. Figure 2k out the door for the setup I run and its the best $$$ Ive spent on the car.
No augrument from me on that topic. I managed some pretty good runs with the 20' Nitto's. Bogarts are defintely on the list.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:49 PM   #17
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i found these hoosier 315/35/17s for like 200 a tire at summit. its dot
Those hoosiers are RADIALS, not Bias-ply.

That brings up a whole new arguement.

Generally speaking:

Drag Radials (as the ones you just mentioned) are for automatics or skilled manual drivers

Bias ply tires are for manual drivers or hardcore automatic drivers

A radial tire's sidewall will not flex as much as a bias-ply, so they will be more tricky to get an optimal launch from, but still will be easier than a regular street tire.

A radial tire is also more stressful on your drivetrain on your initial launch, because the extra flex in the bias ply sidewall helps absorb the drivetrain shock.

The drag radials are very sticky but it takes more practice (compared to a bias ply) to get your optimal launch. They can also range in how well they stick from the nitto 555rs (the less stickiest but they last the longest) to the mickey tompson or hoosiers (which are the stickiest but dont last very long).
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:53 PM   #18
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Just a warning to any of you guys that decided to try and run the bias ply slick. I've never run a slick before so this was my first attempt but from half track on the car feels like its going to wobble apart!! Seriously, I thought I was going to weave into the wall and then across the track. Its scary as shit. This time the first pass I had to shut it down at the 1000' bc it felt so bad. Then I asked my brother and he said it was straight. The sidewall is so soft that the car just wobbles on the tires, the tires track true. So I needed to convince myself that it would stay straight so I would leave the steering wheel alone, and it does everytime. But its a nail biter. Gd luck guys!




Quote:
Originally Posted by danhr View Post
Those hoosiers are RADIALS, not Bias-ply.

That brings up a whole new arguement.

Generally speaking:

Drag Radials (as the ones you just mentioned) are for automatics or skilled manual drivers

Bias ply tires are for manual drivers or hardcore automatic drivers

A radial tire's sidewall will not flex as much as a bias-ply, so they will be more tricky to get an optimal launch from, but still will be easier than a regular street tire.

A radial tire is also more stressful on your drivetrain on your initial launch, because the extra flex in the bias ply sidewall helps absorb the drivetrain shock.

The drag radials are very sticky but it takes more practice (compared to a bias ply) to get your optimal launch. They can also range in how well they stick from the nitto 555rs (the less stickiest but they last the longest) to the mickey tompson or hoosiers (which are the stickiest but dont last very long).
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:55 PM   #19
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If you guys want to save about 1k, you can always try the 18" Z06 wheel with some 18" drag radials. Trust me they work, but not sure about the m6 guys and breaking parts. I started with this setup and went 10.99 with about 6 1.60 60's in a row. I think it ran about $1200 to my door and they bolt right on without anything else.



Quote:
Originally Posted by danhr View Post
Those hoosiers are RADIALS, not Bias-ply.

That brings up a whole new arguement.

Generally speaking:

Drag Radials (as the ones you just mentioned) are for automatics or skilled manual drivers

Bias ply tires are for manual drivers or hardcore automatic drivers

A radial tire's sidewall will not flex as much as a bias-ply, so they will be more tricky to get an optimal launch from, but still will be easier than a regular street tire.

A radial tire is also more stressful on your drivetrain on your initial launch, because the extra flex in the bias ply sidewall helps absorb the drivetrain shock.

The drag radials are very sticky but it takes more practice (compared to a bias ply) to get your optimal launch. They can also range in how well they stick from the nitto 555rs (the less stickiest but they last the longest) to the mickey tompson or hoosiers (which are the stickiest but dont last very long).
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Old 10-10-2010, 04:00 PM   #20
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If you guys want to save about 1k, you can always try the 18" Z06 wheel with some 18" drag radials. Trust me they work, but not sure about the m6 guys and breaking parts. I started with this setup and went 10.99 with about 6 1.60 60's in a row. I think it ran about $1200 to my door and they bolt right on without anything else.
I run the 20' Nitto's. Just waiting for Pumpkin to come back from Dealer. Do to first drivetrain Ouhie.
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Old 10-10-2010, 04:04 PM   #21
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I run the 20' Nitto's. Just waiting for Pumpkin to come back from Dealer. Do to first drivetrain Ouhie.


Those tires should work, Midgard ran a 10.4 with a 1.5x 60' on 20" drag radials. Maybe he can tell you the secret bc I don't know it.
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Old 10-10-2010, 04:29 PM   #22
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Just a warning to any of you guys that decided to try and run the bias ply slick. I've never run a slick before so this was my first attempt but from half track on the car feels like its going to wobble apart!! Seriously, I thought I was going to weave into the wall and then across the track. Its scary as shit. This time the first pass I had to shut it down at the 1000' bc it felt so bad. Then I asked my brother and he said it was straight. The sidewall is so soft that the car just wobbles on the tires, the tires track true. So I needed to convince myself that it would stay straight so I would leave the steering wheel alone, and it does everytime. But its a nail biter. Gd luck guys!
not necessarily true. What you are feeling (it feels like you are driving the car on ice, correct?) can be caused by several things, and does NOT go hand in hand with a bias ply tire.

Cause A: Mixing a bias ply rear tire with a front radial tire. What happens here is the stiff radial in the front is fighting with the flexing of the softer sidewall bias ply rear. This can be easily fixed by running a skinny radial tire. I ran a 185 radial front with a 27x11.5x15 bias ply in the rear and did not have the "driving on ice" feeling. With a smaller contact patch in the front, the radial can't give up such a fight with the bigger bias ply in the rear, so to speak. I am assuming this is the cause of your "on ice" feeling (because I am assuming you are still running those stock 20" wheels with radials on the front). If you opt for skinnies in the front, the feeling will go away. You can also take it one step further to get rid of the feeling by running a bias ply skinny in the front.

Cause B: Underinflation, Basically you have too low of a tire pressure in the bias ply tire and you don't have enough power to fully expand the sidewall, and it is flexing too much at higher speeds. This can be fixed by either running more pressure in the tire, or my favorite solution.... add more power .
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Old 10-10-2010, 05:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danhr View Post
not necessarily true. What you are feeling (it feels like you are driving the car on ice, correct?) can be caused by several things, and does NOT go hand in hand with a bias ply tire.

Cause A: Mixing a bias ply rear tire with a front radial tire. What happens here is the stiff radial in the front is fighting with the flexing of the softer sidewall bias ply rear. This can be easily fixed by running a skinny radial tire. I ran a 185 radial front with a 27x11.5x15 bias ply in the rear and did not have the "driving on ice" feeling. With a smaller contact patch in the front, the radial can't give up such a fight with the bigger bias ply in the rear, so to speak. I am assuming this is the cause of your "on ice" feeling (because I am assuming you are still running those stock 20" wheels with radials on the front). If you opt for skinnies in the front, the feeling will go away. You can also take it one step further to get rid of the feeling by running a bias ply skinny in the front.

Cause B: Underinflation, Basically you have too low of a tire pressure in the bias ply tire and you don't have enough power to fully expand the sidewall, and it is flexing too much at higher speeds. This can be fixed by either running more pressure in the tire, or my favorite solution.... add more power .
That sounds like some good advice, if only I could afford even the rear wheels from Humphrey Bogart...
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Old 10-10-2010, 05:30 PM   #24
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Yeah, you beat me to it. A bias ply rear and a radial front is a ticket to disaster.
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Old 10-10-2010, 06:02 PM   #25
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That sounds like some good advice, if only I could afford even the rear wheels from Humphrey Bogart...
You gotta pay to play.

If you don't wanna pay... then don't play.
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