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Cosmetic Maintenance: Washing, Waxing, Detailing, Bodywork, Protection Anything related to keeping your Camaro clean and in good cosmetic condition.

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Old 10-21-2010, 03:58 PM   #26
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City water. On Long Island we do not have hard water.
Not parked under a tree. Rain is leaving stains on paint only 2 days after washing and waxing. Car is not smooth to the touch anymore.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:19 PM   #27
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It's been 2 days, the waxy silky feel is going fast and I already have water spots. It hasn't rained, but the morning leaves a mist on the car.

I don't get it, I washed with dish soap, I clayed with detail spray and I waxed. Car is still smooth but waxy feeling is failing.
At this point, you should have realized something. You get what you pay for, period. Why do you think that a lot of detailing products that you DON'T see on the shelves cost as much as they do? Have you noticed that they ALL cost around the same amount? It's not about who's products I use, it's about using a quality product and using it correctly. I didn't chime in on this thread because your first post said that you didn't want to spend a lot of money. Once I saw your mindset, I moved on. However, you are now not satisfied and are questioning why. It's not rocket science, it's what you used.

You can't stick a card in your bicycle spokes and call it horsepower. There's a little bit more to it than that. Let me know when you want to get serious with your paint. I've got the red pill. All you have to do is take it.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:32 PM   #28
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Yeah Junkman. I know. You've spoken to me a bit before, and you did an excellent job explaining to me why you have to do all or nothing.

(For what it's worth, Liquid glass is per oz more expensive than adam's buttery wax. Just some trivia there.)


Junkman, i ask you this because you are the god of detailing.

Why does this wax work perfectly on my friend's Mazda 6? I can't even begin to tell you how gorgeous his car looks. You know that thread you made recently, where you detailed someones black camaro for him?
Well, not that good but... reasonably close to it.

2 men wax the same car with the same product the same day and one car stays waxy, and one does not??? At least tell me this is strange!
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:07 PM   #29
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Ok, everyone, I just finished washing the car with Dish Soap (twice), claying the car with Mothers Clay Bar and Mother's detailer spray. The spray needed to be buffed off by hand as it did become cloudy and cake onto the paint.

Paint was smooth, I did use the sandwich bag test. All smooth as glass. Then I used "Liquid Glass" sealant again, as my friend had excellent results with this sealant.

Think this will last me 6 months as advertised? I did NOT spray the hardened wax down with detail spray before buffing off, as there is no need. this stuff comes off easily.
I always like Liquid Glass. I liked Liquid Crystal even more years ago.
Really sounds like you not having much luck. I know my IBM color is rough to keep clean too. I'm not a detail guy but was wondering after you clay barred it using the detail spray, Did you wash it again or put the polish right over the detail spay? Some things you can layer while others you can't. Right now I have a coat of Meguiars NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0. It's the Liquid not the paste. Finish looks great.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:11 PM   #30
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Yeah Junkman. I know. You've spoken to me a bit before, and you did an excellent job explaining to me why you have to do all or nothing.

(For what it's worth, Liquid glass is per oz more expensive than adam's buttery wax. Just some trivia there.)


Junkman, i ask you this because you are the god of detailing.

Why does this wax work perfectly on my friend's Mazda 6? I can't even begin to tell you how gorgeous his car looks. You know that thread you made recently, where you detailed someones black camaro for him?
Well, not that good but... reasonably close to it.

2 men wax the same car with the same product the same day and one car stays waxy, and one does not??? At least tell me this is strange!
Not strange at all. Here's why.

You are talking about 2 different cars which have not been exposed to the same exact conditions. Thus, the paint on both cars is not in the same exact condition. This will cause whatever you use on the paint to perform in two different ways if the paint was not properly prepped. Also, you don't clay a car and then go straight to wax. That's like filling a dent with bondo and then going straight to paint. There's a very important step between the two and it is called primer (actually, there are a couple of steps but for simplicity...). As I say in every thread where someone uses wax and thinks that their paint is going to shine, you ain't going to remotely get the shine that I can get with polishing. You don't go from clay directly to wax without polishing. Wax does not make paint shine, polishing does. The end.

If you want to make your paint shine, you have got to polish it. Here are two different cars, exposed to two different elements. One is mine and gets exposed to all four seasons in Kentucky. The other is a friend's car, lives in southern California and is used as a track car. They are both the same color but I fixed the paint on both of them. Notice how good, two totally different cars with two totally different exposures can look when the paint on both cars is properly fixed. Neither car has wax on it.

My car:




... and my friend's car:



Notice he has California plates and the Pacific ocean. That's definitely not my car or Kentucky..

Now look at what his paint looked like before I fixed it:



See the difference in the shine between the two sides? I have polished all of the damage out of the paint on one half of the halo. If you don't think that all those swirls affect how your shine looks, you are mistaken. It has everything to do with how light is reflected off the car. It is either concentrated (as you see on my car), or scattered as you see on a swirled up car.

Here's his halo fixed:



It's easy to see how much better perfect paint looks compared to swirled up paint. If you want your paint to look like mine, you have to do to it what I did. You don't have to use exactly what I used but your technique has to be correct and what you use has to be of the same caliber or better than what I used. There's multiple products out there that will take you to Shinville but you ain't getting there without going through Polishville. You can fight it all you want but like I say in my videos,

"Yo' shine ain't gonna be nothing like my shine."
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:44 PM   #31
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Junkman2008 - I have always loved your knowledge and information that you have shared with us all. I guess the OP along with a few of us just find it hard to understand why our new cars seem to need so much more work to keep the shine there. It seems like years ago the new cars seemed to hold the shine better. I remember my 1975 Olds (was 20 years old then) cleaned up better and held a shine better then most of the new cars I have owned. I know times and paints have changed. We would have hoped they were for the better. Over the past 15 years my wife and I have owned around 10 new cars (yeah we get bored with them lol). It seems like my 1 year old Camaro needs a lot more effort to keep it looking great. Seems to be the biggest complaint people have with their Camaros has been the paint.
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:07 PM   #32
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Well let's face it. The technology in the advancement of automotive paint has changed but as far as being better is concerned, that can be debated. It has definitely improved in the area of safety, something that I wish my father could have benefited from before he passed with his lungs destroyed from the paint fumes. But let's face it, a car coming out of a factory today is painted by robots. A robot takes no pride in what it paints and it is only going to use the amount of paint dictated by the manufacturer. The manufacturers are using as little paint and clear coat as necessary to get the job done in order to squeeze a buck. So although one would think that technology has made things better, that can be debated and the advantage would probably not be to us, the consumer.

Shiny paint is a way of life, not a miracle in a bottle. You can almost look at shiny paint as what it takes to land the perfect wife. You can't just walk up and bonk her on the head and expect her to accept your ring. There's gonna be some work involved.

Now if she's into S&M....
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:59 PM   #33
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I just want to take a moment and say it's tragic to hear that about your dad.

Back on,
Which Adam's bundle would you tell me to buy if I don't care for shineville, I just want cleanville more than anything else.
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:52 AM   #34
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Well let's face it. The technology in the advancement of automotive paint has changed but as far as being better is concerned, that can be debated. It has definitely improved in the area of safety, something that I wish my father could have benefited from before he passed with his lungs destroyed from the paint fumes. But let's face it, a car coming out of a factory today is painted by robots. A robot takes no pride in what it paints and it is only going to use the amount of paint dictated by the manufacturer. The manufacturers are using as little paint and clear coat as necessary to get the job done in order to squeeze a buck. So although one would think that technology has made things better, that can be debated and the advantage would probably not be to us, the consumer.

Shiny paint is a way of life, not a miracle in a bottle. You can almost look at shiny paint as what it takes to land the perfect wife. You can't just walk up and bonk her on the head and expect her to accept your ring. There's gonna be some work involved.

Now if she's into S&M....
Sad to hear about your dad. I know from a health point paints are better then they were. I work for International / Interlux Paints for around 12 years. We made paints from everything from boats to oil tankers, coal tar, bridge paints, and so on. The stuff put into them was really bad. Around 30% of our stuff could not be sold in the US. I remember in a 5 month span 8 people had heart attacks. My wife would smell the chemicals on me still over the weekends. She begged me to leave that place. Our paints change a lot over the years with all the new laws. Most of the paints before the changes lasted a lot longer. So I understand where your coming from. I think besides the paint the clear coat isn't what it once was.
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:23 AM   #35
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Me and my friend work at the same place! The car has been rained on but no sprinkler heads.

When I use Dish soap, how much do I use? And also, should I mix it with car shampoo?

Will one wash be enough? Do I have to SCRUB? or just run the sponge over the paint?
cover it every time it rains!..you really shouldn't drive your camaro in the rain!
it's not meant to be driven in the RAIN!..just sunny days!
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:06 AM   #36
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cover it every time it rains!..you really shouldn't drive your camaro in the rain!
it's not meant to be driven in the RAIN!..just sunny days!
BAH. Drive that thing. Rain or shine, enjoy the car.
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:06 AM   #37
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I just want to take a moment and say it's tragic to hear that about your dad.

Back on,
Which Adam's bundle would you tell me to buy if I don't care for shineville, I just want cleanville more than anything else.
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Sad to hear about your dad. I know from a health point paints are better then they were. I work for International / Interlux Paints for around 12 years. We made paints from everything from boats to oil tankers, coal tar, bridge paints, and so on. The stuff put into them was really bad. Around 30% of our stuff could not be sold in the US. I remember in a 5 month span 8 people had heart attacks. My wife would smell the chemicals on me still over the weekends. She begged me to leave that place. Our paints change a lot over the years with all the new laws. Most of the paints before the changes lasted a lot longer. So I understand where your coming from. I think besides the paint the clear coat isn't what it once was.
Thanks guys. He tried his best to teach me how to do paint & body work but luckily, I was too lazy to learn. It's a double edged sword, however, because I have to pay someone else to do body work on my car. It doesn't look like I'll be learning in this lifetime but I do plan to learn how to do touch=up paint work using a airbrush gun. It's a growing business.

As far as getting to Cleanville, that's a tough one. I only know how to do this one way, and any other way is either doing it wrong or half stepping. If you just want to get to Cleanville, then the way you're doing it is the way you should do it. The trade off is the results that you are getting. It is just the nature of the beast. The hardest thing for me to do is cut corners. I just can't fathom doing it that way. Thus, I'm probably the worst person to ask how to cut corners. I suck at cutting corners!
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:06 PM   #38
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Wow Junkman. So from what you're telling me, if I don't polish I will get my car covered in filth and water spots.

You've sold me.
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:10 PM   #39
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Wow Junkman. So from what you're telling me, if I don't polish I will get my car covered in filth and water spots.

You've sold me.
Actually, it is the proper wax that is going to protect your paint from that. Polishing is going to remove that damage. Claying is going to setup your paint so that those water spots can't take hold and stick like glue.

I wanted to make a video of this and I probably will but here's what I did. I let it rain on my car. Then, I parked in the garage and let the water dry. I came out the next morning, pulled the car directly into the sun and wet the entire car down again. I then allowed the water to dry in direct sunlight. For the next week, I didn't wash the car. I wanted those water spots to set in stone. After one week I then washed the car. Not one water spot stuck, not even on the windows (which I had treated some time ago with the Adam's glass sealant). I have no water treatment system in my house and my water comes straight from the tap. So why didn't the water spots take hold?

It must be what I do to maintain my paint. That's the only thing that I can think of because I did everything I could to make those water spots stick. I even drove the car 3 hours south of my city and parked it in a public parking lot, right next to some sprinklers. Guess what, they came on and doused the car. By the time I got back to the car, it was covered in water spots. At the DIY car wash 10 minutes later, all of the water spots came off with no effort.

I have no special paint on my car. How does it repel water spots like that? It must be something I use. You know what I use so that's no secret. You know how I use it so that's no secret. If you do exactly as I do, one would believe that you will experience the same results that I have experienced. The decision to do so is up to you, Neo. I can only open the door. You have to walk through it.

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Old 10-23-2010, 01:46 AM   #40
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Actually, it is the proper wax that is going to protect your paint from that. Polishing is going to remove that damage. Claying is going to setup your paint so that those water spots can't take hold and stick like glue.

I wanted to make a video of this and I probably will but here's what I did. I let it rain on my car. Then, I parked in the garage and let the water dry. I came out the next morning, pulled the car directly into the sun and wet the entire car down again. I then allowed the water to dry in direct sunlight. For the next week, I didn't wash the car. I wanted those water spots to set in stone. After one week I then washed the car. Not one water spot stuck, not even on the windows (which I had treated some time ago with the Adam's glass sealant). I have no water treatment system in my house and my water comes straight from the tap. So why didn't the water spots take hold?

It must be what I do to maintain my paint. That's the only thing that I can think of because I did everything I could to make those water spots stick. I even drove the car 3 hours south of my city and parked it in a public parking lot, right next to some sprinklers. Guess what, they came on and doused the car. By the time I got back to the car, it was covered in water spots. At the DIY car wash 10 minutes later, all of the water spots came off with no effort.

I have no special paint on my car. How does it repel water spots like that? It must be something I use. You know what I use so that's no secret. You know how I use it so that's no secret. If you do exactly as I do, one would believe that you will experience the same results that I have experienced. The decision to do so is up to you, Neo. I can only open the door. You have to walk through it.

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Old 10-23-2010, 09:01 AM   #41
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:59 AM   #42
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Wax on, Wax off!

Ok, Ok, I had to say it!
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:09 AM   #43
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Gonna have to buy Adam's. Junkman, what do you recommend? I'll polish if you tell me to. But I just want the car to look clean, and would like to avoid dropping $250 on a PC
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:03 AM   #44
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As I recall, when I purchased the Porter Cable it was just around $120. Search Amazon, that's where I ordered mine from.

As for what to buy from Adam's? You're going to be spending a few bucks as you need clay bar, detail spray, pads, polish, wax, towels, and grit guards. You may think you can save a few $$$ and just get a few things but, honestly, to do the job right, you need it all. The Junkman's kit is probably the way to go since it has everything for one price.

Here is a list of stuff you'll need to do it right.

1 claybar
2 buckets and at least 1 of those buckets with a grit guard (rinse bucket)
1 PC
2 Wash mitts (1 for top part of car, 1 for the bottom, dirtiest part of the car)
1 set of 7.5" pads
1 set of 4" focus pads
1 bottle of Swirl and Haze Remover (SHR)
1 bottle of Fine Machine Polish (FMP)
1 bottle of Machine Super Wax (MSW)
5 gallon car shampoo (seems excessive but, you'll use it)
5 gallon detail spray (seems excessive but, you'll use it)
1 bottle of All Purpose Cleaner (works great on your wheels and for cleaning pads)
2 Great White Drying Towels
2 Double Soft Towels

all of the above is what it takes to do the job and do it right... well, all you need that you have to buy. You still need the knowledge of how to use it and that you can get from watching the Junkman's videos. Order the stuff up and while you're waiting, watch the videos.

There's a few things you can get as optional add-ons that will help you out. You can pick up a leaf blower if you don't already have one. Helps dry the car off in a quick way that won't damage your finish. The less you touch the finish the better. You can also pick up a foam gun. I actually use the ortho mixer. It's cheap and gets the job done. Search the forums for more info on that. I also suggest getting Adam's Americana Carnuba Wax. After using the MSW and letting it cure, you can add an Americana application to really kick it up a notch. These few things aren't a necessity but, they do help a lot.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents. Opinions may vary.





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Gonna have to buy Adam's. Junkman, what do you recommend? I'll polish if you tell me to. But I just want the car to look clean, and would like to avoid dropping $250 on a PC
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:31 AM   #45
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Gonna have to buy Adam's. Junkman, what do you recommend? I'll polish if you tell me to. But I just want the car to look clean, and would like to avoid dropping $250 on a PC
First, about my kit. It consists of two kits. There's the wash side and the paint side (that's why it is called the Total Paint Correction Kit). The paint side has everything necessary to fix and maintain your kit. There are NO frills on this side of the kit. EVERYTHING that comes with that side is necessary, including the amount of product you receive. If you want to do it like I do it, you must have what I use. The wash side of the kit has the two Grit Guard buckets. They are really nice buckets but you could use some Wal-Mart buckets as long as the Grit Guards fit the buckets perfectly.

One thing to note. The foam gun is not included with my kit but it is the most important part of your wash routine. It is not optional. You can get them at Autogeek.net, Amazon or on eBay. You must add that to your purchase.

Another thing to note. This is a one time purchase. You don't spend this type of money every month, couple of months or yearly buying this stuff over and over. You buy the kit, repair your paint, and NEVER do the things that you did which caused your paint to look like it does now. That's why my kit also come with a wash kit.

The wash kit is going to be the number one reason that you won't have to constantly repair your paint. If you wash the car correctly, your paint will remain pristine once you correct it and not have that dull, lifeless look to it. It will constantly look like you have just worked on it, just as my paint does.

Don't underestimate the task at hand. Getting your paint to that pristine look will take some work. Keeping it that way involves a little work too but no where near the initial investment of blood, sweat and tears. That will also be true with the products you will need to maintain your paint. The initial cost is high, but afterward the cost will be rather minimal depending on which product you fall in love with. This is an investment in your car. If you plan to sell it one day, the appearance of the car will speak volumes despite its actual condition.

I don't know where you are located but if you are anywhere close to me, you can come over to my garage and use every product that Adam's sells before you buy them. I can also show you exactly what your paint will look like once you do the entire routine to your car before you spend a dime. You will know what the results will so that there is no question as to if the purchase is worth the money or not. Nothing like seeing into the future. Hindsight is always 20/20.

That offer goes for anyone on this forum. Then when you go to place you first and future orders, you can use the discount code in my signature and save even more money.

So let me know what you would like to do and how I can help. I'm all ears.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:27 AM   #46
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[QUOTE=WhiteCrane;2475080]Gonna have to buy Adam's. Junkman, what do you recommend? I'll polish if you tell me to. But I just want the car to look clean, and would like to avoid dropping $250 on a PC[/QUOTE

I am the owner of a Black Camaro as well....and yes it is a total bitch to keep looking good.
I have owned black cars in the past so I knew what I was getting into

To own a black car,if you care what it looks like,you almost have to be anal.

To give you an example,when I ordered my car I instructed the dealer not to touch it at all when it came off the truck.It even had the white cling tape still on it,the door guards and the plastic on the seats.
No new car prep for me,no way....If it wasn't black fine.

I knew the lot boys would have scratched it during the first wash of its life,and dried it with dirty,scratchy towels.
It had a ton af rail dust and dirt that had to be carefully removed.

To add to Junkmans suggestions of only using quaility products,the most important aspect to keeping a black car scratch free is the drying procedure.

Once your car is corrected per Juckmans recommedations and brought back to as delivered conditions it is extremely difficult to keep it that way while drying.

I suggest after using a high quality micro towel,a big one(wet it first and wring out) to wipe the initial water off the car.
Then invest in a large natural leather shamois...not Wal Mart. to remove the rest or the water.

You must continually dunk the shamois in a bucket of water and wring out to avoid scratches.

You don't nessarally have to spend big bucks to keep a black car nice,just be careful.

I use Maquires NXT paste wax because it takes very little pressure to remove and alot of pressure equals scratches.Water beads up for a very long time.

So...black car means being super careful,a bit anal and alot of effort.

In the end it is worth it.
People ask me all the time"Is your paint factory" and I say kinda
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:38 AM   #47
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Now I differ on your opinion of the chamois. I also work under the logical approach to paint care which is, "The less you touch it, the less opportunity there is for your to damage it." Because of this thinking, I use an electric leaf blower to dry my car. No touch, no scratch.

I also do it that way because I'm kinda lazy.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:57 PM   #48
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Lazy is not a bad thing Junkman... Otherwise, how else would we have something like a remote control??? Making our lives easier is a good thing


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Now I differ on your opinion of the chamois. I also work under the logical approach to paint care which is, "The less you touch it, the less opportunity there is for your to damage it." Because of this thinking, I use an electric leaf blower to dry my car. No touch, no scratch.

I also do it that way because I'm kinda lazy.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:13 PM   #49
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Lazy is not a bad thing Junkman... Otherwise, how else would we have something like a remote control??? Making our lives easier is a good thing
That's what I thought kids were for when I was growing up. At least that's what my parents used us for!
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:45 PM   #50
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I can't drop $500 on a kit. It's very nice of you to offer to let me see the products before buying them. I think I'm gonna let the car stay as it is, and just wash frequently. Truthfuly, i dont want my car to shine, i just want it to look clean. Not have lime stains from rain and water spots.

What if I just buy Adam's shampoo, clay, and Americana paste wax? Will that stop water spotting? Swirl marks do not bother me!
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