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Old 01-02-2009, 07:37 AM   #1
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GMPP est. HP numbers

Hello all.

Was looking at what is available through GMPP and I got to thinking. Just dealing with Products that would create HP I have found the following:

1. Air box
2. Exhaust
3. Headers

I think that is all that actually affects HP. Did I miss anything? There are things like gear ratios and short shifters and such, but those don't produce more power even if they help accelleration. Any guesses as to how much HP gains you would get from these products? Depending on price, these might be a good way to go, with no problems with waranty or smog or any legal issues as many mods can if a little iffy on legality. I am thinking (guessing really) that an increase of 20-30 HP is possible. If so, that is all the power I would need.

Just kind of throwing it out there for discussion. Hope all had a nice and safe new year.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:38 AM   #2
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Take a look at all of the LS3 engine "internals" also....for instance cam
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:28 AM   #3
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There are things like gear ratios and short shifters and such, but those don't produce more power even if they help accelleration.
You almost say that like it's a bad thing. How does more acceleration not mean the same thing as more power?

Let me phrase that differently; The reason to add more power is to make the car faster. If there are other things (gearing/shifters/etc) that also accomplish the "go faster" end result, why is that not something to seek?
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:50 AM   #4
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[QUOTE=MerF;231787]You almost say that like it's a bad thing. How does more acceleration not mean the same thing as more power?

Because with gearing you will always make a sacrifice. Faster acceleration = less top end and fuel mileage.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:07 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by BrianInJackson View Post
Hello all.

Was looking at what is available through GMPP and I got to thinking. Just dealing with Products that would create HP I have found the following:

1. Air box
2. Exhaust
3. Headers

........ I am thinking (guessing really) that an increase of 20-30 HP is possible.
I think that’s a reasonable estimate.

You might consider a tune to improve the programming and make it all work better together. It might only add a few more HP, but will probably result in improvement across many parts of the power band. If I had to choose between what gave me the highest peak HP, or the most "area under the curve” I would choose the later. Too bad there is not really a standard industry method for measuring this. Just my 2 cents
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:55 PM   #6
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I think that’s a reasonable estimate.

You might consider a tune to improve the programming and make it all work better together. It might only add a few more HP, but will probably result in improvement across many parts of the power band. If I had to choose between what gave me the highest peak HP, or the most "area under the curve” I would choose the later. Too bad there is not really a standard industry method for measuring this. Just my 2 cents
I would guess that shorty headers and an intake would probably be good for maybe 20 rwhp.

But get the car tuned and one could easily see 30+ rwhp.

I made 38 rwhp with headers, high flow cats, intake, and a tune on my GTO.
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD View Post
I think that’s a reasonable estimate.

You might consider a tune to improve the programming and make it all work better together. It might only add a few more HP, but will probably result in improvement across many parts of the power band. If I had to choose between what gave me the highest peak HP, or the most "area under the curve” I would choose the later. Too bad there is not really a standard industry method for measuring this. Just my 2 cents
Getting a few more ponies at the peak doesn't mean that you're going to benefit at the start of the race. More horsepower is always good, but it is sometimes difficult to gauge where that horsepower will be made per modification. With an exhaust, the horsepower may come at a different point than an intake. Long and short headers will differ, as well.

I would make sure to find parts that have a good reputation and have proven dyno results that justify the numbers. I won't even get GMPP components until I see how other people's cars perform with those same parts.
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:20 PM   #8
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Because with gearing you will always make a sacrifice. Faster acceleration = less top end and fuel mileage.
Fuel mileage is a moot point. Very few modifications improve fuel economy, really. Top end? Well I remember seeing a few posts that people broke down the gearing and came up with a top speed of something ridiculous, like 243 MPH. I think the gearing can spare some top end there, don't you?
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:24 PM   #9
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Fuel mileage is a moot point. Very few modifications improve fuel economy, really. Top end? Well I remember seeing a few posts that people broke down the gearing and came up with a top speed of something ridiculous, like 243 MPH. I think the gearing can spare some top end there, don't you?

Those calculations dont account for wind resistance, yes the car could go that fast in theory. If it was in a vacuum. I wasn't saying dint change you gears, but as a example I had 5.12 gears in my 67. Great for racing. Turning 7K RPM at redline as I was going through the trap. However if you ran a 5.12 on the street you would beat the engine to death trying to cruise on the interstate.
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:24 PM   #10
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Makes you wonder why someone does not make more gears. Really it's unsafe the fast and faster you go (no duh? uh.. smack). Strech the tranny a couple inches and put a big 7th gear in it and get rid of the back seats just make them subwoofer box with LED light show. lol..
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:47 PM   #11
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Those calculations dont account for wind resistance, yes the car could go that fast in theory. If it was in a vacuum. I wasn't saying dint change you gears, but as a example I had 5.12 gears in my 67. Great for racing. Turning 7K RPM at redline as I was going through the trap. However if you ran a 5.12 on the street you would beat the engine to death trying to cruise on the interstate.
what transmission were you running?

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Makes you wonder why someone does not make more gears. Really it's unsafe the fast and faster you go (no duh? uh.. smack). Strech the tranny a couple inches and put a big 7th gear in it and get rid of the back seats just make them subwoofer box with LED light show. lol..

some cars already have 7 gears.... some have technically infinite gears... (CVT)

tho if all you want it top end, swap in some 1.80's....lol great highway mileage. lol





as for the comments regarding power under the curve over peak power. while I do agree that "useable" power is best. there will be plenty of people who want to say that they have XXX amount of hp and will never see track time, nor will they ever really push the car to its limits. and thats fine. they are still buying the car which in turn is keeping it alive.

do I care about peak numbers, not really. I honestly hate the idea of having to spin the living crap out of a motor just to get into the powerband. which is why im such a fan of the LT1 motor. tq and hp both start right at 2000rpms and run all the way thru the rpms.


now to the OP.... you should be able to see around a 30hp if not more increase in power with a CAI, exhaust and a tune.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:32 PM   #12
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now to the OP.... you should be able to see around a 30hp if not more increase in power with a CAI, exhaust and a tune.

Yes, from LS3 Corvette experience, I'd say 20hp CAI, 30 tune, 25 long tube headers and good (Borla) catback. CAI may need to be cowl induction hood that will be coming aftermarket. G8 version almost ready.

Right around 500hp, which is what I want so I don't get blown away by LS3 Corvettes.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:36 PM   #13
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:08 AM   #14
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Yes, from LS3 Corvette experience, I'd say 20hp CAI, 30 tune, 25 long tube headers and good (Borla) catback. CAI may need to be cowl induction hood that will be coming aftermarket. G8 version almost ready.

Right around 500hp, which is what I want so I don't get blown away by LS3 Corvettes.
i very seriously doubt you'll see 500 n/a with bolt ons. you might be around 470 at the flywheel. but a CAI isnt guaranteed to add 20hp, or 25hp from LTs, the gains that are marketed are 99.9999999% of the time used together. stock airbox with stock exhaust compared to CAI and full exhaust.
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:26 AM   #15
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i very seriously doubt you'll see 500 n/a with bolt ons. you might be around 470 at the flywheel. but a CAI isnt guaranteed to add 20hp, or 25hp from LTs, the gains that are marketed are 99.9999999% of the time used together. stock airbox with stock exhaust compared to CAI and full exhaust.

Yea, definitely some variables.

End goal - Camaro SS runs same as stock NPP 436hp LS3 Corvette.

Could go with cutouts for those "special" moments.
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:31 AM   #16
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I know just about everything when it comes to cars, except the mechanics lol
So my question is, how much more HP do you get when you install an aftermarket exhaust like Corsa?
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:41 AM   #17
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I know just about everything when it comes to cars, except the mechanics lol
So my question is, how much more HP do you get when you install an aftermarket exhaust like Corsa?
Somewhere around 15-20rwhp?
What do you guys think?
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:50 AM   #18
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Yea, definitely some variables.

End goal - Camaro SS runs same as stock NPP 436hp LS3 Corvette.

Could go with cutouts for those "special" moments.
I'm still working on the flip-switch supercharger like that of mad max...lol



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I know just about everything when it comes to cars, except the mechanics lol
So my question is, how much more HP do you get when you install an aftermarket exhaust like Corsa?
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Somewhere around 15-20rwhp?
What do you guys think?
15-20 is about right for it on its own. all aftermarket exhausts will net you about the same amount of hp. when you combo it with a CAI and less restrictive headers it might give you another 5 hp or so over a CAI on its own or the exhaust on its own.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:55 AM   #19
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[QUOTE=CamaroSpike23;232504]what transmission were you running?




With the 5.12 tci turbo400 with 4.56 I ran a denbar powerglide
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:19 PM   #20
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Yes, from LS3 Corvette experience, I'd say 20hp CAI, 30 tune, 25 long tube headers and good (Borla) catback. CAI may need to be cowl induction hood that will be coming aftermarket. G8 version almost ready.

Right around 500hp, which is what I want so I don't get blown away by LS3 Corvettes.


A little unrealistic. You can't just add hp numbers like that. I learned that a long time ago. There's no way a Camaro is going to be making 500hp with just headers, intake, and a tune.

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Somewhere around 15-20rwhp?
What do you guys think?
Catbacks are usually only good for 5-10hp at the most.

It all depends on how restrictive the stock catback exhaust is (which we don't know at this point for the new Camaro SS). The catback on the GTO's is actually pretty good. Guys are only seeing 5-8 rwhp at the most by swapping out the stock catback. Most guys swap out the stock catback strickly for sound (not performance).
To be honest a catback exhaust is one of the worst power vs cost mods there is.

The best mods are long tube headers and a tune.
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:27 PM   #21
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Catbacks are usually only good for 5-10hp at the most.

It all depends on how restrictive the stock catback exhaust is (which we don't know at this point for the new Camaro SS). The catback on the GTO's is actually pretty good. Guys are only seeing 5-8 rwhp at the most by swapping out the stock catback. Most guys swap out the stock catback strickly for sound (not performance).
To be honest a catback exhaust is one of the worst power vs cost mods there is.

The best mods are long tube headers and a tune.
I just want it to roar when it goes down the street... not to worried about HP (has plenty lol) I was just wondering how much more it would get
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:02 PM   #22
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what transmission were you running?



With the 5.12 tci turbo400 with 4.56 I ran a denbar powerglide
noice.
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:52 PM   #23
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I'm still working on the flip-switch supercharger like that of mad max...lol







15-20 is about right for it on its own. all aftermarket exhausts will net you about the same amount of hp. when you combo it with a CAI and less restrictive headers it might give you another 5 hp or so over a CAI on its own or the exhaust on its own.
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A little unrealistic. You can't just add hp numbers like that. I learned that a long time ago. There's no way a Camaro is going to be making 500hp with just headers, intake, and a tune.
OK, let's put a cam in it then. I just want to run even with LS3 Vettes. I'm not sure how much hp we need to counteract the weight difference.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:23 AM   #24
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The GM rep at Barrett Jackson said that the cai and cat back exhaust would being the HP up to 439.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:00 AM   #25
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The GM rep at Barrett Jackson said that the cai and cat back exhaust would being the HP up to 439.
That sounds reasonable to me, although it surprises me that GMPP would release official dyno numbers.
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