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Old 01-06-2009, 02:59 AM   #1
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Exclamation order a new camaro for export to belgium

Hello,
I want to buy a new camaro for export in Belgium, someone could give me the details of a dealer that can provide me. What are the waiting times ?
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:31 AM   #2
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Hi and welcome to the site!

Seems like a question for scotty!
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:01 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by cbodson View Post
Hello,
I want to buy a new camaro for export in Belgium, someone could give me the details of a dealer that can provide me. What are the waiting times ?


welcome to the site!

Difficult but possible

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Old 01-06-2009, 06:02 AM   #4
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Hi,

I'm discussing this topic with Scotty as I'm preparing to export a Camaro to Germany which is virtually the same thing (AKA Europe [the thing to the east for most of you guys]^^).
The main problem seems to be the absence of an address in the USA to preorder the car and get the official stuff sent to. buying directly from the dealer "when it's out" isn't a alternative for me as I don't want to wait till august or september...
Import companies in Germany are calling about $67000 for the Camaro 2SS/RS so that would be the "worst case situation". :/

The optimum would be to buy a car for the Canadian market (amber signal lights, metric dials) and sent it to Europe from Halifax oder Montreal. If you want imperial dials you can go with a normal US version but don't forget to check whether you're allowed to have red turning indicators in Belgium (in Germany you're only allowed if there're no amber lights available).

All in all it's quite hard. I'm thinking about letting my family members (living in the States) buy one.
The main problem would be to organize the transport as you'd have to transport it from the dealer to the harbour directly to avoid paying sales tax.

Any hints are appreciated!
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:50 AM   #5
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Hi,

I'm discussing this topic with Scotty as I'm preparing to export a Camaro to Germany which is virtually the same thing (AKA Europe [the thing to the east for most of you guys]^^).
The main problem seems to be the absence of an address in the USA to preorder the car and get the official stuff sent to. buying directly from the dealer "when it's out" isn't a alternative for me as I don't want to wait till august or september...
Import companies in Germany are calling about $67000 for the Camaro 2SS/RS so that would be the "worst case situation". :/

The optimum would be to buy a car for the Canadian market (amber signal lights, metric dials) and sent it to Europe from Halifax oder Montreal. If you want imperial dials you can go with a normal US version but don't forget to check whether you're allowed to have red turning indicators in Belgium (in Germany you're only allowed if there're no amber lights available).

All in all it's quite hard. I'm thinking about letting my family members (living in the States) buy one.
The main problem would be to organize the transport as you'd have to transport it from the dealer to the harbour directly to avoid paying sales tax.

Any hints are appreciated!
Not sure how easy it will be to get one from Canada, when I was arranging one through e-mail the dealer wanted to make absolutely sure I wasn't going to resell it overseas. I'm pretty sure you'll need someone local to buy it and then send it to you, at least from Canada, and even then you can't let the dealer know it's going overseas. Probably something in the franchise agreement or international trade laws.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:31 PM   #6
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Not sure how easy it will be to get one from Canada, when I was arranging one through e-mail the dealer wanted to make absolutely sure I wasn't going to resell it overseas. I'm pretty sure you'll need someone local to buy it and then send it to you, at least from Canada, and even then you can't let the dealer know it's going overseas. Probably something in the franchise agreement or international trade laws.
sometimes it's pretty good to have family in the States.
I think I'll call them...
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaRTan View Post
Hi,

I'm discussing this topic with Scotty as I'm preparing to export a Camaro to Germany which is virtually the same thing (AKA Europe [the thing to the east for most of you guys]^^).
The main problem seems to be the absence of an address in the USA to preorder the car and get the official stuff sent to. buying directly from the dealer "when it's out" isn't a alternative for me as I don't want to wait till august or september...
Import companies in Germany are calling about $67000 for the Camaro 2SS/RS so that would be the "worst case situation". :/

The optimum would be to buy a car for the Canadian market (amber signal lights, metric dials) and sent it to Europe from Halifax oder Montreal. If you want imperial dials you can go with a normal US version but don't forget to check whether you're allowed to have red turning indicators in Belgium (in Germany you're only allowed if there're no amber lights available).

All in all it's quite hard. I'm thinking about letting my family members (living in the States) buy one.
The main problem would be to organize the transport as you'd have to transport it from the dealer to the harbour directly to avoid paying sales tax.

Any hints are appreciated!
Here's a hint. For $67000.00 US, you can have mine and you'll get it "quick" I would assume, having ordered on day one at a dealer with the 2nd largest allocation in the US... I can wait a while to get mine basically for free...
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by spaRTan View Post
Hi,

I'm discussing this topic with Scotty as I'm preparing to export a Camaro to Germany which is virtually the same thing (AKA Europe [the thing to the east for most of you guys]^^).
The main problem seems to be
mentioning this discussion on a public forum. Knowing selling a vehicle for export violates a dealership's franchise agreement with GM. Not the thing to be doing today.
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:23 PM   #9
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mentioning this discussion on a public forum. Knowing selling a vehicle for export violates a dealership's franchise agreement with GM. Not the thing to be doing today.
That I was not aware of.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:28 PM   #10
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mentioning this discussion on a public forum. Knowing selling a vehicle for export violates a dealership's franchise agreement with GM. Not the thing to be doing today.
He has no deal with me, and I mentioned that we can only sell to customers living in the USA. I am WELL AWARE our cars cannot be sold to go out of the country.
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:21 PM   #11
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He has no deal with me, and I mentioned that we can only sell to customers living in the USA. I am WELL AWARE our cars cannot be sold to go out of the country.
I knew you now...I didn't want him to imply here that you did not. See you at the IDL
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:53 AM   #12
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In belgium there are no official gm dealer who sell camaro 5, perhaps you can find a dealer who sell OPEL and perhaps they could provide one but it is not certain and they have no official documentations.
i don't think that there is a dealership's franchise agreement with GM (chevrolet) in belgium.
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:06 AM   #13
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He has no deal with me,
and that makes me sad!

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and I mentioned that we can only sell to customers living in the USA. I am WELL AWARE our cars cannot be sold to go out of the country.
and that's why I'll either pay some more bucks (well, nearly twice as much) or have to visit friends and family and get one.

I think GM is happy about each and every car they can sell.
IMHO having 10 to 15 Camaros driving around in Germany would have incredible impact on GM's reputation over here.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:56 AM   #14
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I work for a German logistics company here in the US, people are sending cars over to Europe all the time with us. Mostly used cars though. While I'm not directly involved in the process, I'm sure I could gather some information for you.

As far as I know, if you have legally lived in the US and have owned the car for a certain time you can write it off as a "moving item" when you're moving back to Europe (A friend of mine did just that and a lot of colleagues of mine bought new cars with the intention of taking it back to Germany in a few years). I doubt though that would work if for example your family buys the car, keeps it for half a year and then sells it to you...

*edit*
if you're from Belgium, try contacting "Autohaus Werkmeister" in Bitburg, Germany www.werkmeister.de (it's fairly close to Belgium). They're selling Cadillac/Hummer/Corvettes etc and I went there just for fun when I was in Germany over Christmas. I was only able to talk to the receptionist since the salesperson wasn't available and she knew about the Camaro, but didn't really have any info on it.

Last edited by diddiyo; 01-07-2009 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:17 AM   #15
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Everything you've written is correct.
After living in the USA for at least 6 months you can take your car back to Germany without having to pay customs and tax.
I don't want to do that. All I need is an adress in the USA to order without the dealer getting problems (and thus not wanting to sell a car to me^^).
And I won't wait for half a year!

A friend (who isn't into cars) had a good idea yesterday. It should be quite easy to found a corporation just for this purpose, get a postal address and order the car using the corp.. The cost sums up to about $800 for the whole process. Quite cheap...^^

I'll check out whether I want to do that much just for getting a car - we'll see...
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:58 AM   #16
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Hello,
I want to buy a new camaro for export in Belgium, someone could give me the details of a dealer that can provide me. What are the waiting times ?
GM monitors forums like these and look for posts like yours as well. I think a dealer would be foolish to try to sell you one when it is a violation of their franchise agreement.

Good luck though.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:50 PM   #17
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GM monitors forums like these and look for posts like yours as well. I think a dealer would be foolish to try to sell you one when it is a violation of their franchise agreement.

Good luck though.
So your saying they are gonna put out an alert to stop all sales to people from Belgium
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:21 PM   #18
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So your saying they are gonna put out an alert to stop all sales to people from Belgium
Actually there is a quite extensive list of suspected and confirmed exporters you can not sell to
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:28 PM   #19
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If a dealer knowingly sells a car for export, they get in trouble from GM. So, if someone walks in the showroom with a guy who doesn't speak English and mentions export, the salesperson/manager is supposed to send them on their way and refer them to GM Overseas. GM also sends out "mystery export" shoppers to check on dealers.
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:34 PM   #20
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There are a lot of reasons why we prohibit exporting cars and trucks......

First -- the car or truck invariably does NOT meet local safety/fuel/emissions standards. For instance-- european lighting standards differ from the U.S. - so does safety glass.

Tidbit: 1998 and beyond 4th Gen Camaros exported to Europe had Firebird Seats -- that's because the European Union mandates that seat-backs MUST be two-piece with an adjustable head restraint -- the Camaro's seat-back was one-piece; the Firebird's was two......

Second -- fuels are different grades in each country.........you COULD theoretically have a performance or drivability problem -- or in worst case scenario, you could have a no-start condition or worse --engine failure...........and you don't have a warranty when you ship a car overseas..........

Third - there are tax issues that put YOU, the dealer, and GM in peril

Fourth - in cases where we already sell the car or truck in a country, it's like 'bootlegging' --

......and there are many more..........


.......I think I can safely say that we intend to export the Camaro to many countries -- once we get production rolling and we take care of the pent up demand in the U.S. and Canada.......
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:49 PM   #21
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I dont see what the big deal is if I paid the car in full and want to sell overseas. It is my car, right?
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:57 AM   #22
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First -- the car or truck invariably does NOT meet local safety/fuel/emissions standards. For instance-- european lighting standards differ from the U.S. - so does safety glass
All this can be modified

Quote:
Tidbit: 1998 and beyond 4th Gen Camaros exported to Europe had Firebird Seats -- that's because the European Union mandates that seat-backs MUST be two-piece with an adjustable head restraint -- the Camaro's seat-back was one-piece; the Firebird's was two......
This is not true in Belgium there is a service of approval on a case by case for imported cars.

Quote:
hird - there are tax issues that put YOU, the dealer, and GM in peril
???? When you import a car from usa to belgium you have to pay 11% + 21 % VAT there is no reason to put the dealer and gm in peril

Quote:
Fourth - in cases where we already sell the car or truck in a country, it's like 'bootlegging' --
some serious please


U.S. cars represent 0.05% of the cars bought in Europe I think a camaro on Belgian roads expected to sell much

The chevrolet brand in europe represent the following models : matiz, nubira, tacuma, captiva, aveo, lacetti all this are old daewoo models !!!!!

you certainly right, the economic situation of the car manufacturer in the USA is so good that they should certainly not sell too!!
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:43 AM   #23
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first: thanks to fbodfather for answering.

second: cbodson posted most of my concerns regarding fbodfathers post.

third: GM wouldn't even notice me buying a car using my friends or family. It's the same procedure many import companies use. The difference is they have HORRID prices for their imported cars. Not the perfect way to increase GM's reputation...

fourth: I'm gonna get a BMW M3. I'm too sick of all this crap (export issues, changed production dates). Thought I could get a LS3-Corvette but my wife doesn't like it. I think BMW is happy to sell a car.

I'll check back with you in two or three years when GM is selling the Camaro in Germany.
Thanks for all your help nonetheless.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:11 PM   #24
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All this can be modified


This is not true in Belgium there is a service of approval on a case by case for imported cars.


???? When you import a car from usa to belgium you have to pay 11% + 21 % VAT there is no reason to put the dealer and gm in peril


some serious please


U.S. cars represent 0.05% of the cars bought in Europe I think a camaro on Belgian roads expected to sell much

The chevrolet brand in europe represent the following models : matiz, nubira, tacuma, captiva, aveo, lacetti all this are old daewoo models !!!!!

you certainly right, the economic situation of the car manufacturer in the USA is so good that they should certainly not sell too!!
Show a little respect. I daresay that the man who works for GM probably has a better idea of the legal ramifications of the act than your average layperson.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:00 PM   #25
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Show a little respect. I daresay that the man who works for GM probably has a better idea of the legal ramifications of the act than your average layperson.
And you could also say that someone who lives in Belgium might know more about their laws than someone who lives in the USA
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