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Old 11-02-2010, 08:45 AM   #1
Huggerorange73
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13.2 @ 116 mph...suspension wizards...HELP!

Okay...here's the mods and the numbers as the car currently stands :
Torque management eliminated via tune
Rotofab CAI
SLP Loudmouth II axle back
Barton shifter
Kooks 1 7/8" Jet Hot coated headers & Hi Flow Cats
Pfadt lowering springs
Spohn trailing arms
Comp Cams XR281HR13 .571/.590 228/240 113 LSA
Dyno tune by Straightline Performance in New Lenox, IL : 470 rwhp/423 rwtq

And the latest results from the track on the stock tires:
60'............. 2.452
330'........... 6.088
660'........... 8.908
660’ mph..... 87.62
1000'.......... 11.276
1320'.......... 13.227
1320’ mph… 116.28

Car had wicked evil wheel hop on launch as well as the 1-2 shift.....

MPH says this car should be going way the hell faster than 13.2....so I turn to the suspension gods for help
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:54 AM   #2
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There is a lot of movement in the subframe. I would do Pedders subframe inserts and while you have the subframe lowered replace the upper control arm bushings. If you're not concerned with drivetrain noise, you can replace the entire subframe bushing for even greater control.

Also, you may want to put some of the torque management back in.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:17 AM   #3
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I think working on your launch technique will help more than anything. No offense, but that 60' is terrible. Try rolling out of the clutch and rolling into the gas and perfecting that. Good luck. With that MPH you have a very low 12's run justing waiting for you.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:18 AM   #4
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Our BMR trailing arms (TCA026) and our BMR toe rods (TR002) would help make a huge difference, those two items would be the first items I would do since the are relatively inexpensive and are pretty easy to install. If those items didn't cure all the wheel hop I would recommend the BMR "street" rear cradle bushing kit (BK020). These couple items will help out immensely with the wheel hop and are not going to break the bake or change up the driveability of the car really at all.

Also you should look into getting some better tires, you will never be able to hook very good on the stock tire. I would atleast look into the Nitto drag radials.


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Old 11-02-2010, 09:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS View Post
I think working on your launch technique will help more than anything. No offense, but that 60' is terrible. Try rolling out of the clutch and rolling into the gas and perfecting that. Good luck. With that MPH you have a very low 12's run justing waiting for you.
No offense taken....I tried multiple launch styles...all of them failed. Before the cam was in I was at least able to get 2.1 60's.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:12 AM   #6
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ummm the key to any good suspension is a sticky tire

if you are running stockers or something on the factory wheel (this i'm assuming you are), you lack this and is where you will see the biggest improvement on.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggerorange73 View Post
I tried multiple launch styles...all of them failed. Before the cam was in I was at least able to get 2.1 60's.
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ummm the key to any good suspension is a sticky tire

if you are running stockers or something on the factory wheel (this i'm assuming you are), you lack this and is where you will see the biggest improvement on.
Yep, then sticky tires is your best opton.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
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ummm the key to any good suspension is a sticky tire
if you are running stockers or something on the factory wheel (this i'm assuming you are), you lack this and is where you will see the biggest improvement on.
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Yep, then sticky tires is your best opton.
So you suggest drag radials over any suspension mods then?
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:07 PM   #9
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YES!

tires should of been first

then suspension
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:13 PM   #10
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YES!

tires should of been first

then suspension
I'm just wondering how much bang for the buck/help I'm really going to get from a 20" drag radial...it's gotta be close to $600 for a pair.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:18 PM   #11
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i would suggest getting 18" wheels/drag radials

it's worth the extra money

and the tire is the make it or break it on almost any setup.

with a sticky tire, you should be in the ~1.7 60' range.... that will take you down to a high 11 second pass.... so you are cutting AT LEAST 1.2 seconds off your ET, by spending ~1,000. That isn't a good "bang for your buck" mod?!?! I'd say it's pretty damn good!!
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danhr View Post
i would suggest getting 18" wheels/drag radials

it's worth the extra money

and the tire is the make it or break it on almost any setup.

with a sticky tire, you should be in the ~1.7 60' range.... that will take you down to a high 11 second pass.... so you are cutting AT LEAST 1.2 seconds off your ET, by spending ~1,000. That isn't a good "bang for your buck" mod?!?! I'd say it's pretty damn good!!
I think the smart way to do this is throw some suspension upgrades at the car...benifits both the street & strip aspects. Then, instead of throwing money away on 20" drag radials...going with what you suggested with 18" wheels with a sticky set of drag radials, then praying the OEM halfshafts don't grenade. I'll bet you're on the mark...with those 18s an 11 time slip can be had.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:51 PM   #13
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So you suggest drag radials over any suspension mods then?
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YES!

tires should of been first

then suspension
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:46 PM   #14
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Like was said earlier, work on launching the thing. If your tires are spinning at the line, you may as well give that run up. Don't be afraid to heat those tires up either. What track are you running at...what was the weather/DA like.
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggerorange73 View Post
I think the smart way to do this is throw some suspension upgrades at the car...benifits both the street & strip aspects. Then, instead of throwing money away on 20" drag radials...going with what you suggested with 18" wheels with a sticky set of drag radials, then praying the OEM halfshafts don't grenade. I'll bet you're on the mark...with those 18s an 11 time slip can be had.
you can break stock halfshafts on regular tires, you can blow apart the differential with stickies, and you can break the outputshaft on the transmission with stickies or regular tires.

Here's a newsflash. You are racing a car... racing your car puts a lot of strain on EVERYTHING! There will always be a weakness somewhere in your setup. If you don't have confidence in your car nor are you willing to put some risk into it, i'm sorry but you just picked the wrong hobby.
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Old 11-03-2010, 07:51 AM   #16
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Like everyone else said there is always a chance of breaking your car when you are racing it and putting down some decent power no matter what tire you are on. We have broken a halfshaft, transmission output shaft, and driveshaft on on our 2010 Camaro. Stickier tires will definitely help with you track times and help launching the car. You also need to remember that wheel hop will do as much if not more damage then hooking hard on a sticky tire. You can't go wrong whether you decide to put tires or suspension parts on the car but in the end both are really needed to get the most out of the car.
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Old 11-03-2010, 08:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggerorange73 View Post
Okay...here's the mods and the numbers as the car currently stands :
Torque management eliminated via tune
Rotofab CAI
SLP Loudmouth II axle back
Barton shifter
Kooks 1 7/8" Jet Hot coated headers & Hi Flow Cats
Pfadt lowering springs
Spohn trailing arms
Comp Cams XR281HR13 .571/.590 228/240 113 LSA
Dyno tune by Straightline Performance in New Lenox, IL : 470 rwhp/423 rwtq

And the latest results from the track on the stock tires:
60'............. 2.452
330'........... 6.088
660'........... 8.908
660’ mph..... 87.62
1000'.......... 11.276
1320'.......... 13.227
1320’ mph… 116.28

Car had wicked evil wheel hop on launch as well as the 1-2 shift.....

MPH says this car should be going way the hell faster than 13.2....so I turn to the suspension gods for help
do the suspension mods first to eliminate the wheel hop. wheel hop will break things.
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Old 11-03-2010, 08:40 AM   #18
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do the suspension mods first to eliminate the wheel hop. wheel hop will break things.
ok I am going to go out on a limb here and make the assumption that you are being sarcastic in this post?

I did not see the sarcasm smiley, and I don't want the OP to be confused.
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Old 11-03-2010, 08:53 AM   #19
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Okay...here's a tenative plan of attack :

BMR :
BK020 - Rear cradle bushing kit
BK021 - Rear suspension bushing kit

Spohn :
C10-601 - Toe links

Set of 1000HP axles

Set of 18" wheels with sticky tires

Your thoughts?
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:01 AM   #20
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I am not a fan of just throwing parts at a car, and hoping it fixes your problem. Each car is different. Which means your car could benefit (for instance) more from shocks than from subframe bushings. You can't really tell that until you get a clean launch and see what exactly is going on with your car (too much/not enough weight transfer, too much squatting, too much flex, blahb labhlahblahblahblba).

I would say take it one step at a time and not waste money and start throwing random parts at it.

Put a set of sticky tires on it (because right now that's what it needs the most), and see how it reacts. Maybe get a friend to video it and post up the video and ask what people think on how the car is launching.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:24 AM   #21
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ok I am going to go out on a limb here and make the assumption that you are being sarcastic in this post?

I did not see the sarcasm smiley, and I don't want the OP to be confused.
What seemed sarcastic about that statement? I agree that eliminating the wheel hop as much as possible will help prevent damage that would have been caused by the wheel hop while helping put more power down.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:02 AM   #22
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sigh...

to try to eliminate wheel hop, you have to first understand it.

I will try to give a short lesson

Wheel hop is caused when you compress the rear shocks and they come up in a fast rate that when they over power your springs, the springs in return put force back (this is normal) but they over power the shocks and when they uncompress it unloads the rear suspension, so to say. the two fight back and forth sticking/slipping/sticking/slipping. When the tires loose traction, the initial weight transfer you got when you launched your car, reverses itself, as you are not giving that forward momentum anymore, which even further helps unload the rear suspension. then when they hook again, the weight transfer comes back and you go into a vicious cycle until you hit that happy median to where you aren't making the weight transfer go back and forth and the tires can hook. This is why if you do get wheel hop, you should get out of the throttle, because it will keep going and it can take a long time to reach that median.

Putting a sticky tire will allow you to launch higher. then when you launch, the weight is transferred to the back, but then since the tires don't slip, you won't have any wheel hop, as the weight isn't being transferred back to the front at an accelerated rate, and you are keeping the rear suspension loaded.

This past weekend I helped a buddy out with launching his car, and it might help you see what I'm talking about. His only suspension mod is a set of trailing arms (as opposed to the OP who also has a set of lowering springs) but has a stickier set of tires. The car in the video has 200+ more rwhp than the original poster, and has less suspension mods. So according to your theory, he should get massive amounts of wheel hop (well at least more than the original poster)



Notice how the rear suspension stays loaded through the launch, resulting in no wheel hop.

Do not mis-read this and think that the only contributing factor to wheel hop is tires, because it is by far not. But the first step in getting any sort of traction, let alone addressing wheel hop, should always be a set of sticky tires.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:59 PM   #23
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That's pretty damn impressive right there!

I wonder how much, if any help could be gained with a 20" drag radial on the OEM wheel?
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:26 PM   #24
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I have to agree with danhr, everytime I have had wheel hop it was while spinning the tires down the track. I have the exact same suspension set-up as HO73 and have eliminated all my wheel hop. Granted he makes about 80 rwhp more than me. Putting the power to the ground with elminate wheel hop, the only thing to worry about is halfshafts but that's the case when you make power and hook with most cars.

Mike, I'm trying to get a set of spacers for my wheels. If they work we can get that 11 sec. slip before it goes away for the winter.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:33 PM   #25
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Get a set of Mickey Thompson drag radials in 18's. That is all you need.

http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/s...StreetRadialII

1/4 mile is all about the 60 ft.

Do one change at a time, not multiple.

2.4 60 ft is dismal lol.

That tire should get you a 1.6 which put you at a 12.0-12.2 where your car should be.
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