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Old 01-08-2009, 07:07 AM   #151
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he wont get my money ,plus im sure that the twin turbos that will be going into my car keep me from being worried.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:47 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Mindz View Post
Steve's reason for leaving was that he wanted to work with imports and Saleen didn't want to. He left to create his own company for creative design as opposed to being pigeonholed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I hear that he lost more then 50% of his shares of his own company so we have lost control of his own company. So retires from Saleen Inc. because he cannot control his own company anymore. But then he got bored and made SMS.

True: Saleen INC. != SMS

Saleen is different company then SMS. SMS still have not made any cars yet so we do not know what kind of company he has yet. Let just see what SMS can do for the camaro before you guys talk sh!t.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:49 AM   #153
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I hear that he lost more then 50% of his shares of his own company so we have lost control of his own company. So retires from Saleen Inc. because he cannot control his own company anymore. But then he got bored and made SMS.

True: Saleen INC. != SMS

Saleen is different company then SMS. SMS still have not made any cars yet so we do not know what kind of company he has yet. Let just see what SMS can do for the camaro before you guys talk sh!t.
Well, there is the SMS challenger.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:55 AM   #154
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Well, there is the SMS challenger.
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I have seen only computer drawings of it but not a actual car yet. It can be changed before it comes out.

Plus the challenger is a challenger, its a old design that you cannot do much with.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:57 AM   #155
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Forget Saleen, SLP and Tom Henry All the way
I just watched the video and I'm with you guys!
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:58 AM   #156
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I have seen only computer drawings of it but not a actual car yet. It can be changed before it comes out.

Plust the challenger is a challenger, its a old design that you cannot do much with.
True. Can't argue with either point.
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:34 AM   #157
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I will wait and judge him by the product that comes out. Nothing he has ever done has really blown my socks off in the past, or even once made me reach for my wallet, so I doubt he will do anything to the Camaro that I would want. GM produces me a version of the BLACK Sema concept in SILVER, and I will be all over it...call it ICE.

I still think the only time the word Saleen should be stuck on a Camaro is when you mark the kill on your fender, kind of like fighter pilots used to do in WWII.
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:57 AM   #158
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All the Saleen Mustang and comment hate aside, people defending the proposed car are missing an important angle. There are a lot of very confident tuners and aftermarket builders out there but the best usually niche off in one direction. Saleen came to fame flogging the Mustang SOHC motor and upgrading it’s live axles. The other builders mentioned like Callaway and Lingenfelter have been beating on the LS motors from the beginning. They specialize in them. They are two very different engines. If I was building a mustang (why that would happen I have no idea) I wouldn’t take it to Callaway or Lingenfelter even though they are great builders. It’s not to say he doesn’t know are can’t build cars but I’d rather go with someone I feel knows the drive train and chassis inside and out. And in response to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMAN311 View Post
Too bad 1/2 that price you are paying for is just the name. $8995 is ALOT of money for 525hp and that's just at the crank.

You could spend $500 for a cam, $1500-2000 for a full exhaust system (headers/x-pipe/cat-back setup), $300-500 for a CAI and then get a tune and even with labor with a high estimate it shouldn't cost much more than $4K and you'd prob get more than 525hp at the crank.
I think you are optimistic on those gains for that build with a cam that retains driveability and mileage. Look at what is listed below and tell me it isn't worth $9,000. There are more important things than the final hp number. Like build quality and reliability. For God sakes they give you a three-year warranty. What Joe Shmo’s Garage doing a build for 800 bucks will give you one of those? It doesn't pay to spend less on a build if the car spends as much time in a garage as it does in your garage.


· Engine removal, inspection and cleaning for assembly
· Lingenfelter CNC ported & polished LS3 L92 cylinder heads
· Existing GM 2.165" hollow stem intake / 1.59" solid stem exhaust valves retained
· Three angle valve job, hand blending of valve seats
· CC chambers, surface, set spring heights and assembly
· Competition Cams double valve springs, titanium retainers, 10 degree locks & seals
· Lingenfelter designed Competition Cams GT11 hydraulic roller camshaft
· Modified oil pump assembly
· Ported & polished throttle body
· 160 degree thermostat
· ASP underdrive pulley system
· Lingenfelter C6 High Flow Air Intake
· All necessary gaskets, fluids & bolts
· Professional assembly & engine installation
· Engine testing & expert ECM tuning
· Chassis dyno testing before & after installation
· Excellent drivability, highway mileage not adversely affected
· Lingenfelter 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty

· Lingenfelter certificate of authenticity
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:04 AM   #159
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And I suspect Saleen may have started the new company so his venture into other manufacturer's vehicles wouldn't carry the Saleen badge and negative connotations non-stang fans associate with it.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:42 AM   #160
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Sorry but this clown stuck his foot in his mouth with his previous comments. Why would you let him put his hands on your Camaro. I hope this and all future ventures of his fail. Callaway, Lingenfelter, or Katech would be more likely to get my business before him.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:54 AM   #161
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I'd give my money to Roush before Saleen, but there are plenty more very respected GM tuners out there that I'd go to first. I can totally see the angle that he may have been taking in that video - he was at a Mustang/Ford-deal, but in this day and age, I think it's pretty careless to think negative comments you make in public against a product or project you undertook (not to mention not completely represent correctly (i.e. the V6 thing)) won't affect people's opinions to whom you plan to appeal to later down the road. Did he think that he wasn't going to try to make a SMS Camaro down the road and that it would be okay to do a little bashing? Maybe, but doubtful - I think. I'm sure he had plans since it was stated to go into production. Does he think his name will automatically bring enthusiasm to his product just because of his name, despite the fact he was bashing the product not long ago? I don't know.

For me, I'll be doing my own thing with someone else. I don't wish ill on him (although I've had unpleasant things to say about him in the past) but everyone is entitled to do what they want with their car and their money
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:59 AM   #162
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Callaway is the only mentioned group that might truly peak my interest.

Not like I could afford it anyway, and I probably wouldn't get it if I could afford it. I'd buy a bigger house.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:13 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by stratman View Post
I think you are optimistic on those gains for that build with a cam that retains driveability and mileage. Look at what is listed below and tell me it isn't worth $9,000. There are more important things than the final hp number. Like build quality and reliability. For God sakes they give you a three-year warranty. What Joe Shmo’s Garage doing a build for 800 bucks will give you one of those? It doesn't pay to spend less on a build if the car spends as much time in a garage as it does in your garage.


· Engine removal, inspection and cleaning for assembly
· Lingenfelter CNC ported & polished LS3 L92 cylinder heads
· Existing GM 2.165" hollow stem intake / 1.59" solid stem exhaust valves retained
· Three angle valve job, hand blending of valve seats
· CC chambers, surface, set spring heights and assembly
· Competition Cams double valve springs, titanium retainers, 10 degree locks & seals
· Lingenfelter designed Competition Cams GT11 hydraulic roller camshaft
· Modified oil pump assembly
· Ported & polished throttle body
· 160 degree thermostat
· ASP underdrive pulley system
· Lingenfelter C6 High Flow Air Intake
· All necessary gaskets, fluids & bolts
· Professional assembly & engine installation
· Engine testing & expert ECM tuning
· Chassis dyno testing before & after installation
· Excellent drivability, highway mileage not adversely affected
· Lingenfelter 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty

· Lingenfelter certificate of authenticity
Sorry but to me that isn't worth $9,000. What good is a 3yr/36,000 mile warranty to me when I live in Nebraska. You think I'm going to pay to take my car down to their shop everytime I have problems with it? This was taken right from their warranty word doc

"In the event of a warranty claim by the warranty owner, the vehicle must be delivered to Lingenfelter Performance Engineering, Inc. at the owner's expense for inspection before any warranty authorization will be given"

also you are voiding your factory warranty by getting their packages:

"THIS WARRANTY SUPERSEDES ALL PREVIOUSLY APPLICABLE WARRANTIES, IF ANY, AND EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED HEREIN, NO OTHER WARRANTY, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY WARRANTIES OF FITNESS OR MERCHANTABILITY, IS PROVIDED TO YOU, BY LINGENFELTER PERFORMANCE ENGINEERING, INC. OR ANY OTHER PARTY"

If you get GM perforamance parts like their LS3 "hot cam",exhaust.CAI you can still keep your factory warranty without sacrificing build quality. As far as the gains, I got 57hp to the wheels on my LS1 vette with just a CAI, tune and headers so I don't think I'm too far off anticipating 40+ hp from a good cam swap for about a 100hp total gain from stock. Even GMPP is claiming 50 horses from thier LS3 hot cam and that it still maintains normal driveability https://store.gmperformanceparts.com...!--19171224-->

BTW, in the 2yrs I had my Vette I never once had any problems with it, and yes I did have a local shop do all the performance upgrades to it, and they charged me alot less than $600.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:17 PM   #164
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'garagelogic'... it appears that you're a fan of Saleen, which is all fine and well.

That being said, there are many who are not fans of Saleen, for whatever the reason may be, and their opinions are welcome and respected.

I'd ask that everyone be respectful of each others opinions and not imply that opinions are based on ignorance, ie; "if you will actually take the time...".
I am not a Saleen fan at all. If I were I would have already owned one or more of them. I said I liked the first generation of Saleen-produced cars more than I did the later versions.

I, too, respect other peoples opinions, and I don't think you can find where I have attacked anyone for having one that is contrary to my own. However, I cannot and will not respect the opinion of anyone who does not have any sort of information or experience that supports their position. I would dare say that most of the people that have posted in this thread thus far have expressed very good reasons for their opinions.

If you want to say that you would not buy a Camaro made by Saleen because he's too easily identified with the Mustang or Ford, fine and dandy. If you say you would not support the endeavor because of the comments he made to a group of Mustang fans regarding the Camaro, again, that's fine. If you feel other tuners can and will do a better job with the Camaro based on their work with other vehicles, that makes perfect sense but please don't pigeon-hole me as some sort of Ford or Saleen fanboy or someone looking to stir up trouble because my opinion runs contrary to the majority.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:03 PM   #165
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....please don't pigeon-hole me as some sort of Ford or Saleen fanboy or someone looking to stir up trouble because my opinion runs contrary to the majority.

With all due respect, I was not "pigeon-holing" you as "some sort of Ford or Saleen fanboy", nor as "someone looking to stir up trouble" because you have a different opinion.

As I said earlier, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and each person's opinion is to be respected.



To be perfectly honest with you, I took a small bit of exception with some of your comments;

A. How many of you on this forum, let alone at a gathering of Camaro-specific enthusiasts, poke fun and take pot-shots at the Mustang and Ford?

Yes, this occurs, and its called "a good old rivalry". I am certain that it also occurs at Mustang/Ford gatherings as well. And I also think you'll find that the majority of automotive enthusiasts are respectful of each other, whether its Ford or Chevrolet.

B. They are basing their decision on the mere fact that, in the past, Saleen chose to build his cars around the Mustang platform. Although it is a very flimsy reason, so be it. However, I will let you know that the vast majority of the people who are likely to hold that opinion are not in the target demographic that Steve Saleen is going after, so I’m not sure that the money you don’t plan to spend on his products will ever be missed.

I'd give a little more credit to most of the folks here than to assume their opinions are based solely on the Saleen being a Mustang. And I'd also venture to say that there are quite a few people here who can afford whatever Saleen offers.

C. If you will actually take the time to read about the man and all the things he does, you’d be surprised on how much knowledge he has and what he has brought to the table in terms of aftermarket performance.

Yes, there have been remarks that his cars are nothing but a body kit, and yes, that is incorrect. But I don't think knowing the entire history of Saleen is a requirement for forming a knowledgeable opinion.

D. If you hold such a myopic view of things that you cannot see this, then I can do nothing but simply feel sorry for you.

I'm not sure how to address this one...

Again, I AM NOT trying to get into an argument with you 'garagelogic'. We each have our opinion - I respect yours and I'd ask you do the same (I'M NOT SAYING YOU HAVEN'T so please don't get upset. )

I really think this topic has been "beaten to death" at this point.

What do you all say we move on. Time to close the thread?
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:11 PM   #166
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I think the thread is just starting to get interesting.. There is nothing like a good ole Mustang Camaro rivalry thread..
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