Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack

Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack Discuss issues related to wheels and tires

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-08-2009, 11:30 AM   #1
Xanthos
Almost-Original Postwhore
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,658
Calling Pedder's People!

Disclaimer: All questions in this post are for a V6 Camaro only.

My original planned (and rather short list) of suspension mods for the new camaro was just upgraded sway bars and slightly more aggressive rear (only, not front) shocks to help keep both tires on the ground during launch (shocks), to create a little bit of weight shift on hard launching to help traction (sway bars), and to help the car carve corners (also sway bars).

What I'm asking:

A) The sport packages comes with a few other goodies as well - how useful are these, what do they do exactly (or just generally speaking) in terms of suspension movements, and whats the price difference between just the sway bar kit and the full sport package?

B) I was shooting for 15-25% stiffer rear shocks than front shocks. Is this a good approximation for your zeta GSR shocks compared to stock shocks or would I need to jump all the way to the rear coilovers to get this relatively small amount of improvement?

C) And this is the one I'm having the hardest trouble fathoming as far as suspension theory... When carving corners, having stiffer rear shocks than front shocks would cause the car to have more tendency towards understeer? Am I correct in this or am I backwards?

Thanks in advance!
- Xanthos
__________________
Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 05:54 PM   #2
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanthosV6 View Post
Disclaimer: All questions in this post are for a V6 Camaro only.

My original planned (and rather short list) of suspension mods for the new camaro was just upgraded sway bars and slightly more aggressive rear (only, not front) shocks to help keep both tires on the ground during launch (shocks), to create a little bit of weight shift on hard launching to help traction (sway bars), and to help the car carve corners (also sway bars).

What I'm asking:

A) The sport packages comes with a few other goodies as well - how useful are these, what do they do exactly (or just generally speaking) in terms of suspension movements, and whats the price difference between just the sway bar kit and the full sport package? Here is the sports package I think you are talking about.
2010 Camaro Sport Package
The Camaro Sport System includes the elements of the Camaro Street I system plus Pedders adjustable sway bars with HD endlinks. The reduction in body lean and roll translates directly to more confident control in aggressive maneuvers. Having addressed the

EP1167 Zeta Rear Differential Bush Kit
EP1169 Zeta Rear Extreme Sub-Frame Connector Kit
EP6560 Zeta Front Radius Rod Bush includes 5421 caster washer
429006ADJ Kit GM Zeta sway bar Heavy duty adjustable kit
The EP1167, rear diff bushing, is a 3 bushing assembly. The rear OEM diff mounts ARE REALLY Soft. You can see the bushings load up and move when you load up the power train. This obsorbs traction, rather than passing on traction and torque. The EP1169, rear sub frame inserts are really important and fairly easy to do. Your rear cradle assembly is mounted to the body. the rubber in the bushings are OK, however they have very seriously large viods that allow your rear assembly to move about 15mm separate from the body. This is again, wasting torque and time, and gives you a feeling the rear is "stepping out" The EP6560, front radius rod bushing is used to stiffen up control of the front/rear movement of the lower control arm. Like the pitiful GTO radius rod bushing, this unit is fluid filled. More engineering is done to try and reduce road noise, at the serious expense of handling and braking. This bushing is the reason GM Racing asked for our help. Once we gave them their bushing, they asked us what else we can give them. This is how we are now an approved vendor for GM Racing. These three bushing sets are the real big weak links for all Zeta platforms and will make a huge difference with the adjustable sway bars.


B) I was shooting for 15-25% stiffer rear shocks than front shocks. Is this a good approximation for your zeta GSR shocks compared to stock shocks or would I need to jump all the way to the rear coilovers to get this relatively small amount of improvement? Our rates on our coils and dampers are proprietary and Pedders will not give that info out. With that said, both coils and dampers will give you more than 25% improvement in rates. Now we will be publishing all rates and such on our Xa Extreme 30 30 way Mono tube adjustable coil overs, and will be offering 3 coils, street sport, and track. All the ones that were ordered initially will be sent with sport coils, which will be he most popular. I am hoping we will have the race coils available at the same time for those who really want to beat up the pavement.

C) And this is the one I'm having the hardest trouble fathoming as far as suspension theory... When carving corners, having stiffer rear shocks than front shocks would cause the car to have more tendency towards understeer? Am I correct in this or am I backwards? Yes and no. Sorry to be vague here. But when you have excess suspension travel and low end struts that are not even gas charged, just oil filled only, opposite reactions can/will occur.If you control the front suspension travel and beef up the firmness, then increasing rear shock/spring rates will reduce under steer. At the same point, if spring rates are too low, and damping rates are not performance oriented, increasing front sway bar rates may in fact decrease understeer if the front coils/dampers are too soft and excess travel. The opposite may occur if coils and dampers are set up for performance. This can get complicated as you can see. So the base setup is critical, then you evaluate it, then start making changes one by one.

Thanks in advance!
- Xanthos
Hope this helps. If you have any further questions, just ask.

mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 10:23 PM   #3
Xanthos
Almost-Original Postwhore
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,658
That did answer (almost) all of my questions!

The bushings seem to make a much larger difference than I thought they would. I'll definitely be getting the sport package.

As far as the shocks vs. coilovers go, I understand you can't give out that info - what you gave me is more than enough though!

So, my setup would be the sport package (sway bars and bushings) as well as the rear shocks. MSRP is like 1250 total (give or take 50 bucks or so) - but about how long would my baby be out of commission for, and how much would the install run me?
- Xanthos
__________________
Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:02 PM   #4
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanthosV6 View Post
That did answer (almost) all of my questions!

The bushings seem to make a much larger difference than I thought they would. I'll definitely be getting the sport package.

As far as the shocks vs. coilovers go, I understand you can't give out that info - what you gave me is more than enough though!

So, my setup would be the sport package (sway bars and bushings) as well as the rear shocks. MSRP is like 1250 total (give or take 50 bucks or so) - but about how long would my baby be out of commission for, and how much would the install run me?
- Xanthos
should be able to be done within 1 day. I can tell you there is a big difference between our GSRs and our eXtreme Xas. I would say there is as much difference between our GSR and OEM as GSR and Xa's. Plus you have all kinds of adjustability.

thanks
mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:27 PM   #5
Xanthos
Almost-Original Postwhore
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
should be able to be done within 1 day. I can tell you there is a big difference between our GSRs and our eXtreme Xas. I would say there is as much difference between our GSR and OEM as GSR and Xa's. Plus you have all kinds of adjustability.

thanks
mike
dms
Ok. Where would I have this done? Any pedders retailer?
- Xanthos
__________________
Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:34 PM   #6
jeffny09


 
jeffny09's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 5,714
Send a message via AIM to jeffny09 Send a message via Yahoo to jeffny09
dms

i ordered the xa package thingy that u guys offered at introductory price back in dec. my question is will these drop the car? are they coil overs or shocks? im not familier with anything on suspension so can u fill me in on what extactly they do?
jeffny09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:51 PM   #7
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanthosV6 View Post
Ok. Where would I have this done? Any pedders retailer?
- Xanthos
I do not believe we have anyone in Oklahoma. If you are aware of a great suspension or speed shop give me a reference


With proper instruction, a suspension savy tech can be taught easily how to do it. May take more than a day, however. Depends on their talent

thanks
mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:55 PM   #8
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffny09 View Post
dms

i ordered the xa package thingy that u guys offered at introductory price back in dec. my question is will these drop the car? are they coil overs or shocks? im not familier with anything on suspension so can u fill me in on what extactly they do?
You bought a very serious, state of the art adjustable coil over!!! You will be able to adjust the height from near OE height (alittle less) to several inches. Plus will be able to adjust the shock controls extremely easily.

For very spirited driving, you will also want the 3 bushings I just chatted about. Adding the sway bars as well, will make you cry with enjoyment.

If you have ay questions, please ask.

thanks
mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:55 PM   #9
Xanthos
Almost-Original Postwhore
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,658
None that I know of - but I'll ask around. I'll just drive down to dallas if I have to - its only a couple hours from here and I'd love to go to medieval times again at some point.
- Xanthos
__________________
Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:58 PM   #10
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanthosV6 View Post
None that I know of - but I'll ask around. I'll just drive down to dallas if I have to - its only a couple hours from here and I'd love to go to medieval times again at some point.
- Xanthos
You can see Dallas Mike White. he is very experienced in XETA.

thanks
mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 12:04 AM   #11
Xanthos
Almost-Original Postwhore
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
You can see Dallas Mike White. he is very experienced in XETA.

thanks
mike
dms
Is that the guy over at SNL?
- Xanthos
__________________
Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 12:18 AM   #12
jeffny09


 
jeffny09's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 5,714
Send a message via AIM to jeffny09 Send a message via Yahoo to jeffny09
well im tryin to get in touch with pete i sent him and email on some other things that was mention,,,how much is the sway bar going for?
and i dont know where ima get mines installed i live in ny
jeffny09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 12:29 AM   #13
Xanthos
Almost-Original Postwhore
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,658
The whole sport package MSRPs at 1,007.42.

Although, oddly enough the price for all the parts of the package individually is less than the price of the full package.

Zeta eXtreme Adj Sway Bar Kit - 345.21
Camaro Front Radius Rod Bush - 147.14
Zeta Rear eXtreme Sub-Frame Co - 154.48
Zeta Differential Mounts - 83.88

Assuming the package is correct in listing the quantity of each at 1 - total cost should only total to 730.71, unless the package price includes install while the component price does not. I would even go so far as to say it should be lower than that, since ordering the package would imply a discount over ordering each part individually. Worst case scenario I'll just order each part individually anyway.
- Xanthos
__________________
Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 12:40 AM   #14
jeffny09


 
jeffny09's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 5,714
Send a message via AIM to jeffny09 Send a message via Yahoo to jeffny09
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanthosV6 View Post
The whole sport package MSRPs at 1,007.42.

Although, oddly enough the price for all the parts of the package individually is less than the price of the full package.

Zeta eXtreme Adj Sway Bar Kit - 345.21
Camaro Front Radius Rod Bush - 147.14
Zeta Rear eXtreme Sub-Frame Co - 154.48
Zeta Differential Mounts - 83.88

Assuming the package is correct in listing the quantity of each at 1 - total cost should only total to 730.71, unless the package price includes install while the component price does not. I would even go so far as to say it should be lower than that, since ordering the package would imply a discount over ordering each part individually. Worst case scenario I'll just order each part individually anyway.
- Xanthos

ill prob end up ordering all of that individually
due to not having all that money at once( all of it is going towards downpayment on the camaro) so every month i can order something
that sounds good and once i get everything i prolly install it all together
jeffny09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 09:45 AM   #15
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,786
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffny09 View Post
and i dont know where ima get mines installed i live in ny
Where in NY?
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 10:01 AM   #16
jeffny09


 
jeffny09's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 5,714
Send a message via AIM to jeffny09 Send a message via Yahoo to jeffny09
queens ny
jeffny09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 10:26 AM   #17
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,786
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffny09 View Post
queens ny
Oh. :( I can't help you then...If you were in the Buffalo Area, I know of a couple decent tuning/aftermarket shops in the area. Sorry...
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 10:50 AM   #18
jeffny09


 
jeffny09's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 5,714
Send a message via AIM to jeffny09 Send a message via Yahoo to jeffny09
ill travel if i have too
jeffny09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 11:21 AM   #19
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,904
Guys,

one of the services we have is not only finding and training dealers, we also give technical advise to all of you plus the techs you select when you are not close to Pedders dealer.

A lot of our Pedders dealers are found by referrals. If you are aware of a shop that you feel proud of, talk to them.

mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 11:40 AM   #20
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,786
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
Guys,

one of the services we have is not only finding and training dealers, we also give technical advise to all of you plus the techs you select when you are not close to Pedders dealer.

A lot of our Pedders dealers are found by referrals. If you are aware of a shop that you feel proud of, talk to them.

mike
dms
That's really great!

So we can install these packages ourselves, and maintain contact with your people for advice and troubleshooting?
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 04:48 PM   #21
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
That's really great!

So we can install these packages ourselves, and maintain contact with your people for advice and troubleshooting?
ABSOLUTELY!

You will see on all of my posts my phone number and email, etc. You will not get the service we offer from any other suspension company out there.

Now keep in mind, suspension work is not rocket science, but if not done correctly, can have detrimental affects. You will have to decide if you are qualified enough to do it.

mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 06:03 PM   #22
Mr Twisty


 
Mr Twisty's Avatar
 
Drives: the 2nd amendment home
Join Date: May 2008
Location: OK
Posts: 14,230
Tell us about your warrantee.

Some bushings require special tools to replace?

Front Xtreme struts will be adjusustable at the strut tower?

Rear coilovers adjust from the lower side of shock?

Never EVER use an impact on a $500 shock!

It's good you're so involved in the forums and the zeta...Nice to know you won't disappear after the sale. Thanks.

Last edited by Mr Twisty; 01-09-2009 at 06:14 PM.
Mr Twisty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 09:53 PM   #23
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69 View Post
Tell us about your warrantee.

Some bushings require special tools to replace?

Front Xtreme struts will be adjusustable at the strut tower?

Rear coilovers adjust from the lower side of shock?

Never EVER use an impact on a $500 shock!

It's good you're so involved in the forums and the zeta...Nice to know you won't disappear after the sale. Thanks.
We have a 2 year warranty on our components.

Front Xas are adjustable dampening at the strut tower. The rear is on the top side of strut.

mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 02:30 AM   #24
Xanthos
Almost-Original Postwhore
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,658
Honestly, I'd still like to know what causes the price gap on the camaro sport package... an extra 270 dollars is significant - almost a 37% price increase.
- Xanthos
__________________
Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 03:01 AM   #25
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanthosV6 View Post
Honestly, I'd still like to know what causes the price gap on the camaro sport package... an extra 270 dollars is significant - almost a 37% price increase.
- Xanthos
It is a math error. Thanks for giving us a heads up. I have not auditted the Camaro section yet, because we are not yet selling in this section.

thanks again.

mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pedders December Dollar Days for the 2010 Camaro and Brand X Vehicles JusticePete Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack 85 07-26-2009 05:20 PM
Zeta (Camaro/Commodore/G8) suspension details Gatecrasher Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack 66 04-16-2009 01:11 PM
SEMA, Pedders Conference, GS Camaro, New Products JusticePete Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack 25 12-01-2008 01:25 PM
JP Got Bored or Maybe Lost His Mind JusticePete Wheels and Tires Talk Sponsored by The Tire Rack 0 11-26-2008 04:18 PM
Hey Tag! Have you been trained to draw blood yet? Silverado Off-topic Discussions 16 12-30-2007 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.