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Old 01-10-2009, 12:04 PM   #188
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I guess I must be dumb.....People are not buying cars right now and the fact of the matter is the next 6 months are going to be worst then the last 6 months.They are trying to almost give away Mustangs and Challengers.There will be thousands of Car dealers going out of bussiness across this country.We have weathered the economy,possible bankruptcy,and a dim outlook to the future.I don't know how many more storms people are going to take for this car.I am not convinced that when these Camaros hit the dealers they are going to start flying off the shelf.There are alot of people out there that don't care as much about this car as us.GM better start being real with it's self.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:06 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by fastball View Post
Scott, I know now is not the time or place to say this but I'm gonna say it anyway because of the point you brought up in this post..... for these reasons and the fact that state franchise laws prevent you (and GM) from doing what I'm sure you would like and prefer to do for us your customers, I still conceed that bankruptcy would have been a very strategic way to go. You could then basically circumvent assinine laws that prevent you from having the flexibility to serve your customer's better. Franchise laws restrict so much it frustrates everyone. You could sell cars via the internet, hell, you could have a private delivery program like BMW (explain to me how BMW circumvents USA franchise laws with their European deliververy program where you can pick your 3 series right up from the plant in Bavaria!!!!)

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. You keep telling us GM has to abide by laws, that we have to change our ellected officials, but you don't make serious efforts to change them or force the hand to circumvent them legally. Trust me, GM has more legal clought in the US than any of us pissant Joe the Plumber voters.

When Rick was up there on Capitol Hill testifying, why didn't he mention that if all 50 states franchise laws weren't repealed, GM couldn't serve their customers as well as they need to? That would have been a humdinger to those congressmen!

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Fastball FTW!
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:07 PM   #190
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I think the Camaro delivery problem highlights what most of us have know for a long time that GM has major issues in their Executive Management Team starting with the CEO. The management problems that have brought them to the brink of bankruptcy have been there for a long time and they need to change the entire culture in their Home Office.

GM has a lot of talented hard working people in their ranks but they are not "driving the ship". I think what you will see GM continue to have problems the rest of this year and their CEO will be gone and replaced before mid year.

I also would not rule out Chapter 11, it is still a real possibility for GM and unless they make some management changes soon it could still happen.

Steve
Agreed, Chapter 11 is FAR from out of the picture. As soon as the UAW vowed to fight the concession requirement in the bailout it was time to start making popcorn.



link-> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122302475.html
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:08 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
You order a Dell directly through the company. You cannot order a Camaro directly from GM. That's where the difference lies.
Um.... I WANT to be able to order it directly through the company. That's my point!

Franchise laws and allocation went out with the hula hoop and the mood ring.

This is a 2010 model... not a horse and buggy.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:10 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by JJ2010 View Post
I guess I must be dumb.....People are not buying cars right now and the fact of the matter is the next 6 months are going to be worst then the last 6 months.They are trying to almost give away Mustangs and Challengers.There will be thousands of Car dealers going out of bussiness across this country.We have weathered the economy,possible bankruptcy,and a dim outlook to the future.I don't know how many more storms people are going to take for this car.I am not convinced that when these Camaros hit the dealers they are going to start flying off the shelf.There are alot of people out there that don't care as much about this car as us.GM better start being real with it's self.
It may come down to offering discounts in the end; noone knows at this point. All I ever said was, IMO, there is no way they'll do it on the pre-orders. Why would they? We've already "committed" to buying the cars in most cases at MSRP. If you don't care about waiting, now apparently until after October, you very well may get a discount, but you'll be at the end of the current long line.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:15 PM   #193
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Quote:
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Um.... I WANT to be able to order it directly through the company. That's my point!

Franchise laws and allocation went out with the hula hoop and the mood ring.

This is a 2010 model... not a horse and buggy.
Sure, I'd love to do that too.

But from a realistic standpoint, rehashing the way GM sells cars into a "direct order" sort of thing would mean a couple thousand angry dealers breaking down the doors of the Ren. Center and holding everyone inside hostage.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:16 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by JJ2010 View Post
I guess I must be dumb.....People are not buying cars right now and the fact of the matter is the next 6 months are going to be worst then the last 6 months.They are trying to almost give away Mustangs and Challengers.There will be thousands of Car dealers going out of bussiness across this country.We have weathered the economy,possible bankruptcy,and a dim outlook to the future.I don't know how many more storms people are going to take for this car.I am not convinced that when these Camaros hit the dealers they are going to start flying off the shelf.There are alot of people out there that don't care as much about this car as us.GM better start being real with it's self.
For every V6 that GM forces a dealer to buy (because of whatever silly marketing crap some import driving pinhead in their marketing dept. dreamed up) they will have one less V8 sold and rolling out to a happy customer.

Meanwhile, the V6 will sit on a lot while everyone NOT an enthusiast sits around waiting for the economy to recover.

Brilliant!
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:18 PM   #195
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I just saw a sign at a bank that stated "The best way to get back on your feet is to miss a couple of car payments!"

Best of luck in locating a new job.


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Now that's the way to have a positive perspective. Best of luck getting back on your feet.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:18 PM   #196
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Fbodfather,
Thank for taking time out of your busy schedule for the multiple posts over the past 24 hours.

Last edited by Jarvis59; 01-10-2009 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:19 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
Sure, I'd love to do that too.

But from a realistic standpoint, rehashing the way GM sells cars into a "direct order" sort of thing would mean a couple thousand angry dealers breaking down the doors of the Ren. Center and holding everyone inside hostage.
If you ran a big company and 70% of your workforce was completely screwing up, goofing off, wasting time and money, and making the company look like a horse's rump.... you honesly would not fire them because you're worried about making them angry??!?!?!?!???!?!?!!??!?!??!?
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:23 PM   #198
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If you ran a big company and 70% of your workforce was completely screwing up, goofing off, wasting time and money, and making the company look like a horse's rump.... you honesly would not fire them because you're worried about making them angry??!?!?!?!???!?!?!!??!?!??!?
It really isn't that simple. Remember when GM shut down Oldsmobile a few years back? Last I heard, they're still having problems (lawsuits and such) with disgruntled dealers. You can't just go up to a dealer and say, "You suck at your jobs, we're shutting you down."
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:24 PM   #199
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Ah hell....I needed some extra time to get my garage cleaned out for the new car anyhow....
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:34 PM   #200
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I hate the unknown as well, I can only hope it will not be delayed further...I really really want my 2ss when I get home...
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:39 PM   #201
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Pete: I was just wondering about the stripes cause they got brought up in the IDL apparently, and since I don't get to see the video, I was wondering what it meant. I am in no way COPO. I won't be cancelling my order because i can't get long stripes, I'll just go to my local decal shop. But I would definately get factory ones if I had to pay more.
And since for a few seconds, the fbod himself was here to answer questions, I thought I would pose it and eliminate 20 something pages of useless arguements and rumors.
I don't think any of us know for sure, but I'd bet they mean "install more colors at the factory" where the installers should be better trained and more capable of doing it error free. They're not going to be ramped up to produce and learn to install (SS) longer ones in 30 days...IMO. Gotta admit though, I hope I'm wrong!!!

And another good question I saw was: ALL V8s, manual and auto, to get 3:45 rear gears??? Don't know who to ask but Scotty?
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:42 PM   #202
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So all our orders will be filled by September? Can anyone answer this please, the longest ill wait till is the end of August.
Will the orders be filled by end of August or end of September? Or Filled later?
Someone please clear this up for me, this is a make or break deal right now.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:46 PM   #203
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So all our orders will be filled by September? Can anyone answer this please, the longest ill wait till is the end of August.
Will the orders be filled by end of August or end of September? Or Filled later?
Someone please clear this up for me, this is a make or break deal right now.
They said yesterday (as far as I'm concerned) that ALL current pre-orders would be delivered by the end of October. That doesn't mean someone going in Monday and ordering will get theirs by the end of October. CURRENT. Before I can make an educated guess on when I think yours would be delivered I have to know your dealer's allocation, where you are in line, and what you ordered. JUST MY GUESS.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:48 PM   #204
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SOME of you guys kill me. GM should go bankrupt so they can go around franchise laws so that YOU can get your car????? How about the guy at that other dealer that has his heart set on the car going to that dealer????? Holy cow!!!!!!

I would ask that you all go look at the history of the new 370Z. When did you know it was coming? Who at Nissan gave you any dates? My recollection was it showed up in the spy photos about 6 months ago WITH camo AND NO COMMENTS from ZBODFATHER. Oh yeah, that's right. There is no insider called ZBODFATHER. And now the most recent issues of the car mags have full reviews, it will be at the NAIAS and oh yes you can go buy one now. No build up, no inclusion of the enthusiasts. I worked at Nissan for a bit. They and the other Japanese OEMs would never do what you guys have been allowed to see and hear about for the past few years of Camaro development.

Your enthusiasm and passion are your own worst enemy here. GM has included you in many key steps of Camaro development, maybe more than any car in history. And when a date is missed by a few weeks SOME of you guys go off on rants against GM, it's dealers and leadership.

Puh leeeeze.
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