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Old 01-10-2009, 10:48 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
May I suggest that you take that up with your elected officials?

We don't like it any more than you do -- and the threads that 'broke out' today are just ONE of the problems we face with allocation.

(Why do you assume WE made the rules on allocation?)

Computers are cars are two wildly different things...........

As I said in an earlier post about allocation: Go talk to the guys from Honda that went to jail because they did not follow an 'allocation' plan.

Not our choice!

If we could build "first come, first served" we'd have happy customers -- and that's what we want. Alas, we must follow the law to the letter!
I doubt I was even born yet when these laws were created.

I believe they were created in a time when they may have been a good idea but now they are as outmoded as the carburator and bias ply tires.

Things change and laws need to adapt. I don't see any activity on anyone's part to fix these broken laws, and there should be activity on this front. You guys have TOO MANY dealerships and most of them are TOO STUPID to be helping sell your cars. Many of them are giving you a BAD reputation.

You guys need to start getting that all reduced and find a better way.

Also... computers and cars are manufactured products. I really don't "buy" they are any different. I don't see allocation schemes on any other big ticket items I ever bought. It's the same in principal and there should be no obsolete laws penalizing people because they live in a rural area or snowy area, etc.
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:49 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post

Also... computers and cars are manufactured products. I really don't "buy" they are any different. I don't see allocation schemes on any other big ticket items I ever bought. It's the same in principal and there should be no obsolete laws penalizing people because they live in a rural area or snowy area, etc.
You order a Dell directly through the company. You cannot order a Camaro directly from GM. That's where the difference lies.
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:52 AM   #185
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Scott,
Thanks for the continued updates and making the time to keep us informed. Keep doing what you do man! We appreciate the hard work and can't wait to take delivery. I for one know that my wife and I will have permanent grins on our faces !

Ron
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:58 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Black5thgen View Post
I may be the only one that's happy the Camaro is delayed. I just got laid off yesterday and now I have a month to get back on my feet. The Camaro delay was the best new I got yesterday. That added in with a the delay results in a better product.
Just a thought... You have a lot of friends here. What was your employment? Maybe someone here can help you out. It doesn't hurt to explore all avenues.


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Scott, I know now is not the time or place to say this but I'm gonna say it anyway because of the point you brought up in this post..... for these reasons and the fact that state franchise laws prevent you (and GM) from doing what I'm sure you would like and prefer to do for us your customers, I still conceed that bankruptcy would have been a very strategic way to go. You could then basically circumvent assinine laws that prevent you from having the flexibility to serve your customer's better. Franchise laws restrict so much it frustrates everyone. You could sell cars via the internet, hell, you could have a private delivery program like BMW (explain to me how BMW circumvents USA franchise laws with their European deliververy program where you can pick your 3 series right up from the plant in Bavaria!!!!)

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. You keep telling us GM has to abide by laws, that we have to change our ellected officials, but you don't make serious efforts to change them or force the hand to circumvent them legally. Trust me, GM has more legal clought in the US than any of us pissant Joe the Plumber voters.

When Rick was up there on Capitol Hill testifying, why didn't he mention that if all 50 states franchise laws weren't repealed, GM couldn't serve their customers as well as they need to? That would have been a humdinger to those congressmen!
I doubt (don't know for sure) that bankruptcy allows you to circumvent laws. You are absolutely correct about the legal clout GM has versus us pee-ons. That being said, even though it sucks for us in this circumstance, allocation "laws" have been around forever and I doubt they were just haphazardly thrown into place. A lot of thought and effort went into them to make them fair for all involved. Could they be "tweaked" for something specific like a new vehicle launch? Probably and that would make some sense IMO. Yes, Wagoner could and should have said a lot more during the Congressional hearings to expand upon things that currently hinder GM's progress. My belief though is you will hear a lot more about those problems when the "viability" plan is presented to Congress next month.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:03 AM   #187
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GM Management

I think the Camaro delivery problem highlights what most of us have know for a long time that GM has major issues in their Executive Management Team starting with the CEO. The management problems that have brought them to the brink of bankruptcy have been there for a long time and they need to change the entire culture in their Home Office.

GM has a lot of talented hard working people in their ranks but they are not "driving the ship". I think that you will see GM continue to have problems the rest of this year and their CEO will be gone and replaced before mid year.

I also would not rule out Chapter 11, it is still a real possibility for GM and unless they make some management changes soon it could still happen.

Steve
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:04 AM   #188
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I guess I must be dumb.....People are not buying cars right now and the fact of the matter is the next 6 months are going to be worst then the last 6 months.They are trying to almost give away Mustangs and Challengers.There will be thousands of Car dealers going out of bussiness across this country.We have weathered the economy,possible bankruptcy,and a dim outlook to the future.I don't know how many more storms people are going to take for this car.I am not convinced that when these Camaros hit the dealers they are going to start flying off the shelf.There are alot of people out there that don't care as much about this car as us.GM better start being real with it's self.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:06 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by fastball View Post
Scott, I know now is not the time or place to say this but I'm gonna say it anyway because of the point you brought up in this post..... for these reasons and the fact that state franchise laws prevent you (and GM) from doing what I'm sure you would like and prefer to do for us your customers, I still conceed that bankruptcy would have been a very strategic way to go. You could then basically circumvent assinine laws that prevent you from having the flexibility to serve your customer's better. Franchise laws restrict so much it frustrates everyone. You could sell cars via the internet, hell, you could have a private delivery program like BMW (explain to me how BMW circumvents USA franchise laws with their European deliververy program where you can pick your 3 series right up from the plant in Bavaria!!!!)

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. You keep telling us GM has to abide by laws, that we have to change our ellected officials, but you don't make serious efforts to change them or force the hand to circumvent them legally. Trust me, GM has more legal clought in the US than any of us pissant Joe the Plumber voters.

When Rick was up there on Capitol Hill testifying, why didn't he mention that if all 50 states franchise laws weren't repealed, GM couldn't serve their customers as well as they need to? That would have been a humdinger to those congressmen!

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Fastball FTW!
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:07 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by War Eagle View Post
I think the Camaro delivery problem highlights what most of us have know for a long time that GM has major issues in their Executive Management Team starting with the CEO. The management problems that have brought them to the brink of bankruptcy have been there for a long time and they need to change the entire culture in their Home Office.

GM has a lot of talented hard working people in their ranks but they are not "driving the ship". I think what you will see GM continue to have problems the rest of this year and their CEO will be gone and replaced before mid year.

I also would not rule out Chapter 11, it is still a real possibility for GM and unless they make some management changes soon it could still happen.

Steve
Agreed, Chapter 11 is FAR from out of the picture. As soon as the UAW vowed to fight the concession requirement in the bailout it was time to start making popcorn.



link-> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122302475.html
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:08 AM   #191
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You order a Dell directly through the company. You cannot order a Camaro directly from GM. That's where the difference lies.
Um.... I WANT to be able to order it directly through the company. That's my point!

Franchise laws and allocation went out with the hula hoop and the mood ring.

This is a 2010 model... not a horse and buggy.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:10 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by JJ2010 View Post
I guess I must be dumb.....People are not buying cars right now and the fact of the matter is the next 6 months are going to be worst then the last 6 months.They are trying to almost give away Mustangs and Challengers.There will be thousands of Car dealers going out of bussiness across this country.We have weathered the economy,possible bankruptcy,and a dim outlook to the future.I don't know how many more storms people are going to take for this car.I am not convinced that when these Camaros hit the dealers they are going to start flying off the shelf.There are alot of people out there that don't care as much about this car as us.GM better start being real with it's self.
It may come down to offering discounts in the end; noone knows at this point. All I ever said was, IMO, there is no way they'll do it on the pre-orders. Why would they? We've already "committed" to buying the cars in most cases at MSRP. If you don't care about waiting, now apparently until after October, you very well may get a discount, but you'll be at the end of the current long line.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:15 AM   #193
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Um.... I WANT to be able to order it directly through the company. That's my point!

Franchise laws and allocation went out with the hula hoop and the mood ring.

This is a 2010 model... not a horse and buggy.
Sure, I'd love to do that too.

But from a realistic standpoint, rehashing the way GM sells cars into a "direct order" sort of thing would mean a couple thousand angry dealers breaking down the doors of the Ren. Center and holding everyone inside hostage.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:16 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by JJ2010 View Post
I guess I must be dumb.....People are not buying cars right now and the fact of the matter is the next 6 months are going to be worst then the last 6 months.They are trying to almost give away Mustangs and Challengers.There will be thousands of Car dealers going out of bussiness across this country.We have weathered the economy,possible bankruptcy,and a dim outlook to the future.I don't know how many more storms people are going to take for this car.I am not convinced that when these Camaros hit the dealers they are going to start flying off the shelf.There are alot of people out there that don't care as much about this car as us.GM better start being real with it's self.
For every V6 that GM forces a dealer to buy (because of whatever silly marketing crap some import driving pinhead in their marketing dept. dreamed up) they will have one less V8 sold and rolling out to a happy customer.

Meanwhile, the V6 will sit on a lot while everyone NOT an enthusiast sits around waiting for the economy to recover.

Brilliant!
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:18 AM   #195
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I just saw a sign at a bank that stated "The best way to get back on your feet is to miss a couple of car payments!"

Best of luck in locating a new job.


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Now that's the way to have a positive perspective. Best of luck getting back on your feet.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:18 AM   #196
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Fbodfather,
Thank for taking time out of your busy schedule for the multiple posts over the past 24 hours.

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