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Old 01-10-2009, 11:26 AM   #176
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Pete: I was just wondering about the stripes cause they got brought up in the IDL apparently, and since I don't get to see the video, I was wondering what it meant. I am in no way COPO. I won't be cancelling my order because i can't get long stripes, I'll just go to my local decal shop. But I would definately get factory ones if I had to pay more.
And since for a few seconds, the fbod himself was here to answer questions, I thought I would pose it and eliminate 20 something pages of useless arguements and rumors.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:29 AM   #177
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I'm sorry but this whole situation is unbelievable! I don't really care about the delay it's only a month. The fact is we've known about this car since Winter 2005. It will be almost 3 1/2 years since we all layed our eyes on the concept, by the time half of us get our cars that we ordered. If there aren't anymore delays again, god-willing. I just baffles me how long it took to get this car out, and just how secrective our dealers, except CAMARO SCOTTY, thanks Scott and GM is being just as bad. I mean the car was suppossed to be produced next month and even up until yeaterday we still didn't know much about the situation of this car except for the V6! We haven't even seen a picture of this car with stripes or in Cyber Gray Metallic!

GM has really dropped the ball on this car in my eyes. The truth is I think it's great that they are delaying the car so we don't get pieces of crap on the road, even though that might be just But, who knows what they are up to. the truth is all theses bugs should've been done already. I swear the people who worked on this car could've been beat out by trained monkeys to get this car on the road already! I mean on one hand I appreciate that GM is doing the right thing, but on the other hand I'm so mad that we all have to wait any longer for a car that should have already been on the road. GM new they were going to build this car before it was even a concept, so the song and dance of "We are going to wait to see the reaction before we produce it...." is BS! They knew old men would be crying at the unveiling and they knew they needed this car on the market.

Unfortunatley, I think I might be out of the Camaro running. The unknown is what scares me and no noe seems to be able to answer questions around here or at the dealers, or GM reps! I am the first on my dealers list for a V8, but all I know for sure is that I'll have ti by September, which begins the 4th Quarter of car production. My dealer has only so many allocations and all of them will be built by than! But, who knows when GM will give him the go ahead for my SS/RS! I have already started to look at a Vette again, although the new 370Z is very nice and so much more refined and realiable than the Vette, I juts don't think can bring myself to buying one, even thoguh I loved my '03 and '04 Z. Too underpowered! But, it is still a possiblity. GM has dissapointed me on this one, and by possibly losing my sale they can be the ones that hurt now! Yeah, someone will buy my Camaro, but they will still lose another customer for life which is never a good thing!

Sorry for the rant!
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:30 AM   #178
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Cheers, Scott.

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Old 01-10-2009, 11:31 AM   #179
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I'm from a family that grew up on Hondas and later made the switch to Mercedes. My father had an old Chevy ages ago and swore never to buy an American car after all the problems he had. I'm 31 and was dead set on getting an 08 Acura TL but after reading about the new Camaro I can't shake my desire for an American muscle car. My family thinks I'm crazy but something tells me this will be a quality product. Reading the forums I see the passion everyone has for it and I'm sold.
Reminds of an occasionally brought up question.....

How many songs have been written about an Acura?

Obviously none. You're buying an American icon in Camaro. Welcome home.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:35 AM   #180
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All I can say is with the economy the way it is GM and dealers better get this one right.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:41 AM   #181
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May I suggest that you take that up with your elected officials?

We don't like it any more than you do -- and the threads that 'broke out' today are just ONE of the problems we face with allocation.

(Why do you assume WE made the rules on allocation?)

Computers are cars are two wildly different things...........

As I said in an earlier post about allocation: Go talk to the guys from Honda that went to jail because they did not follow an 'allocation' plan.

Not our choice!

If we could build "first come, first served" we'd have happy customers -- and that's what we want. Alas, we must follow the law to the letter!
Scott, I know now is not the time or place to say this but I'm gonna say it anyway because of the point you brought up in this post..... for these reasons and the fact that state franchise laws prevent you (and GM) from doing what I'm sure you would like and prefer to do for us your customers, I still conceed that bankruptcy would have been a very strategic way to go. You could then basically circumvent assinine laws that prevent you from having the flexibility to serve your customer's better. Franchise laws restrict so much it frustrates everyone. You could sell cars via the internet, hell, you could have a private delivery program like BMW (explain to me how BMW circumvents USA franchise laws with their European deliververy program where you can pick your 3 series right up from the plant in Bavaria!!!!)

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. You keep telling us GM has to abide by laws, that we have to change our ellected officials, but you don't make serious efforts to change them or force the hand to circumvent them legally. Trust me, GM has more legal clought in the US than any of us pissant Joe the Plumber voters.

When Rick was up there on Capitol Hill testifying, why didn't he mention that if all 50 states franchise laws weren't repealed, GM couldn't serve their customers as well as they need to? That would have been a humdinger to those congressmen!
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:44 AM   #182
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Thanks fbodfather. I'm always patient. My Dad, a 40 year Fisher Body (Ewing, N.J.) tool maker, always told me..."anything worth doing well was worth doing right...the first time".

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Old 01-10-2009, 11:48 AM   #183
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May I suggest that you take that up with your elected officials?

We don't like it any more than you do -- and the threads that 'broke out' today are just ONE of the problems we face with allocation.

(Why do you assume WE made the rules on allocation?)

Computers are cars are two wildly different things...........

As I said in an earlier post about allocation: Go talk to the guys from Honda that went to jail because they did not follow an 'allocation' plan.

Not our choice!

If we could build "first come, first served" we'd have happy customers -- and that's what we want. Alas, we must follow the law to the letter!
I doubt I was even born yet when these laws were created.

I believe they were created in a time when they may have been a good idea but now they are as outmoded as the carburator and bias ply tires.

Things change and laws need to adapt. I don't see any activity on anyone's part to fix these broken laws, and there should be activity on this front. You guys have TOO MANY dealerships and most of them are TOO STUPID to be helping sell your cars. Many of them are giving you a BAD reputation.

You guys need to start getting that all reduced and find a better way.

Also... computers and cars are manufactured products. I really don't "buy" they are any different. I don't see allocation schemes on any other big ticket items I ever bought. It's the same in principal and there should be no obsolete laws penalizing people because they live in a rural area or snowy area, etc.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:49 AM   #184
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Also... computers and cars are manufactured products. I really don't "buy" they are any different. I don't see allocation schemes on any other big ticket items I ever bought. It's the same in principal and there should be no obsolete laws penalizing people because they live in a rural area or snowy area, etc.
You order a Dell directly through the company. You cannot order a Camaro directly from GM. That's where the difference lies.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:52 AM   #185
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Scott,
Thanks for the continued updates and making the time to keep us informed. Keep doing what you do man! We appreciate the hard work and can't wait to take delivery. I for one know that my wife and I will have permanent grins on our faces !

Ron
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:58 AM   #186
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I may be the only one that's happy the Camaro is delayed. I just got laid off yesterday and now I have a month to get back on my feet. The Camaro delay was the best new I got yesterday. That added in with a the delay results in a better product.
Just a thought... You have a lot of friends here. What was your employment? Maybe someone here can help you out. It doesn't hurt to explore all avenues.


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Scott, I know now is not the time or place to say this but I'm gonna say it anyway because of the point you brought up in this post..... for these reasons and the fact that state franchise laws prevent you (and GM) from doing what I'm sure you would like and prefer to do for us your customers, I still conceed that bankruptcy would have been a very strategic way to go. You could then basically circumvent assinine laws that prevent you from having the flexibility to serve your customer's better. Franchise laws restrict so much it frustrates everyone. You could sell cars via the internet, hell, you could have a private delivery program like BMW (explain to me how BMW circumvents USA franchise laws with their European deliververy program where you can pick your 3 series right up from the plant in Bavaria!!!!)

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. You keep telling us GM has to abide by laws, that we have to change our ellected officials, but you don't make serious efforts to change them or force the hand to circumvent them legally. Trust me, GM has more legal clought in the US than any of us pissant Joe the Plumber voters.

When Rick was up there on Capitol Hill testifying, why didn't he mention that if all 50 states franchise laws weren't repealed, GM couldn't serve their customers as well as they need to? That would have been a humdinger to those congressmen!
I doubt (don't know for sure) that bankruptcy allows you to circumvent laws. You are absolutely correct about the legal clout GM has versus us pee-ons. That being said, even though it sucks for us in this circumstance, allocation "laws" have been around forever and I doubt they were just haphazardly thrown into place. A lot of thought and effort went into them to make them fair for all involved. Could they be "tweaked" for something specific like a new vehicle launch? Probably and that would make some sense IMO. Yes, Wagoner could and should have said a lot more during the Congressional hearings to expand upon things that currently hinder GM's progress. My belief though is you will hear a lot more about those problems when the "viability" plan is presented to Congress next month.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:03 PM   #187
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GM Management

I think the Camaro delivery problem highlights what most of us have know for a long time that GM has major issues in their Executive Management Team starting with the CEO. The management problems that have brought them to the brink of bankruptcy have been there for a long time and they need to change the entire culture in their Home Office.

GM has a lot of talented hard working people in their ranks but they are not "driving the ship". I think that you will see GM continue to have problems the rest of this year and their CEO will be gone and replaced before mid year.

I also would not rule out Chapter 11, it is still a real possibility for GM and unless they make some management changes soon it could still happen.

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Old 01-10-2009, 12:04 PM   #188
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I guess I must be dumb.....People are not buying cars right now and the fact of the matter is the next 6 months are going to be worst then the last 6 months.They are trying to almost give away Mustangs and Challengers.There will be thousands of Car dealers going out of bussiness across this country.We have weathered the economy,possible bankruptcy,and a dim outlook to the future.I don't know how many more storms people are going to take for this car.I am not convinced that when these Camaros hit the dealers they are going to start flying off the shelf.There are alot of people out there that don't care as much about this car as us.GM better start being real with it's self.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:06 PM   #189
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Scott, I know now is not the time or place to say this but I'm gonna say it anyway because of the point you brought up in this post..... for these reasons and the fact that state franchise laws prevent you (and GM) from doing what I'm sure you would like and prefer to do for us your customers, I still conceed that bankruptcy would have been a very strategic way to go. You could then basically circumvent assinine laws that prevent you from having the flexibility to serve your customer's better. Franchise laws restrict so much it frustrates everyone. You could sell cars via the internet, hell, you could have a private delivery program like BMW (explain to me how BMW circumvents USA franchise laws with their European deliververy program where you can pick your 3 series right up from the plant in Bavaria!!!!)

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. You keep telling us GM has to abide by laws, that we have to change our ellected officials, but you don't make serious efforts to change them or force the hand to circumvent them legally. Trust me, GM has more legal clought in the US than any of us pissant Joe the Plumber voters.

When Rick was up there on Capitol Hill testifying, why didn't he mention that if all 50 states franchise laws weren't repealed, GM couldn't serve their customers as well as they need to? That would have been a humdinger to those congressmen!

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Fastball FTW!
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:07 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by War Eagle View Post
I think the Camaro delivery problem highlights what most of us have know for a long time that GM has major issues in their Executive Management Team starting with the CEO. The management problems that have brought them to the brink of bankruptcy have been there for a long time and they need to change the entire culture in their Home Office.

GM has a lot of talented hard working people in their ranks but they are not "driving the ship". I think what you will see GM continue to have problems the rest of this year and their CEO will be gone and replaced before mid year.

I also would not rule out Chapter 11, it is still a real possibility for GM and unless they make some management changes soon it could still happen.

Steve
Agreed, Chapter 11 is FAR from out of the picture. As soon as the UAW vowed to fight the concession requirement in the bailout it was time to start making popcorn.



link-> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122302475.html
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:08 PM   #191
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You order a Dell directly through the company. You cannot order a Camaro directly from GM. That's where the difference lies.
Um.... I WANT to be able to order it directly through the company. That's my point!

Franchise laws and allocation went out with the hula hoop and the mood ring.

This is a 2010 model... not a horse and buggy.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:10 PM   #192
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I guess I must be dumb.....People are not buying cars right now and the fact of the matter is the next 6 months are going to be worst then the last 6 months.They are trying to almost give away Mustangs and Challengers.There will be thousands of Car dealers going out of bussiness across this country.We have weathered the economy,possible bankruptcy,and a dim outlook to the future.I don't know how many more storms people are going to take for this car.I am not convinced that when these Camaros hit the dealers they are going to start flying off the shelf.There are alot of people out there that don't care as much about this car as us.GM better start being real with it's self.
It may come down to offering discounts in the end; noone knows at this point. All I ever said was, IMO, there is no way they'll do it on the pre-orders. Why would they? We've already "committed" to buying the cars in most cases at MSRP. If you don't care about waiting, now apparently until after October, you very well may get a discount, but you'll be at the end of the current long line.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:15 PM   #193
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Um.... I WANT to be able to order it directly through the company. That's my point!

Franchise laws and allocation went out with the hula hoop and the mood ring.

This is a 2010 model... not a horse and buggy.
Sure, I'd love to do that too.

But from a realistic standpoint, rehashing the way GM sells cars into a "direct order" sort of thing would mean a couple thousand angry dealers breaking down the doors of the Ren. Center and holding everyone inside hostage.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:16 PM   #194
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I guess I must be dumb.....People are not buying cars right now and the fact of the matter is the next 6 months are going to be worst then the last 6 months.They are trying to almost give away Mustangs and Challengers.There will be thousands of Car dealers going out of bussiness across this country.We have weathered the economy,possible bankruptcy,and a dim outlook to the future.I don't know how many more storms people are going to take for this car.I am not convinced that when these Camaros hit the dealers they are going to start flying off the shelf.There are alot of people out there that don't care as much about this car as us.GM better start being real with it's self.
For every V6 that GM forces a dealer to buy (because of whatever silly marketing crap some import driving pinhead in their marketing dept. dreamed up) they will have one less V8 sold and rolling out to a happy customer.

Meanwhile, the V6 will sit on a lot while everyone NOT an enthusiast sits around waiting for the economy to recover.

Brilliant!
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:18 PM   #195
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I just saw a sign at a bank that stated "The best way to get back on your feet is to miss a couple of car payments!"

Best of luck in locating a new job.


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Now that's the way to have a positive perspective. Best of luck getting back on your feet.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:18 PM   #196
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Fbodfather,
Thank for taking time out of your busy schedule for the multiple posts over the past 24 hours.

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Old 01-10-2009, 12:19 PM   #197
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Sure, I'd love to do that too.

But from a realistic standpoint, rehashing the way GM sells cars into a "direct order" sort of thing would mean a couple thousand angry dealers breaking down the doors of the Ren. Center and holding everyone inside hostage.
If you ran a big company and 70% of your workforce was completely screwing up, goofing off, wasting time and money, and making the company look like a horse's rump.... you honesly would not fire them because you're worried about making them angry??!?!?!?!???!?!?!!??!?!??!?
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:23 PM   #198
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If you ran a big company and 70% of your workforce was completely screwing up, goofing off, wasting time and money, and making the company look like a horse's rump.... you honesly would not fire them because you're worried about making them angry??!?!?!?!???!?!?!!??!?!??!?
It really isn't that simple. Remember when GM shut down Oldsmobile a few years back? Last I heard, they're still having problems (lawsuits and such) with disgruntled dealers. You can't just go up to a dealer and say, "You suck at your jobs, we're shutting you down."
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:24 PM   #199
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Ah hell....I needed some extra time to get my garage cleaned out for the new car anyhow....
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:34 PM   #200
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I hate the unknown as well, I can only hope it will not be delayed further...I really really want my 2ss when I get home...
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