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Old 01-13-2009, 10:44 AM   #26
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i wonder................

if the driver of the mustang or challenger or 100s of other cars t=that you just left sitting at a light a 100 yards behind is the driver of those cars gonna call it a muscle car or a sports car
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:50 AM   #27
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As the guys on Top Gear stated, the Challenger is a Muscle car, the ZR1 and CTS-V (and i can only assume the Camaro) are sports cars...

A muscle car is a straight line racer.... get all the power as fast as you can, and just hang on... a sports car is a car that will not only rip your face off in a straight line, but one that will suck you into the seat in a sharp corner.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:52 AM   #28
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It's a spuscle car
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:16 AM   #29
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These cars, both V6 and V8 share nothing with the traditional Muscle car. IRS v LRA, 6-speeds v 3-speeds, 10mpg v 27mpg, frame + body v. unibody...the only thing similar is the name and the engines. But even those have evolved significantly.

The term "Muscle Car", imho, is just an affectionate name for the new Camaro and friends. It doesn't properly describe them at all. I consider the Camaro a 2+2 Sports Car, true and through.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:36 AM   #30
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The "sports car" or "muscle car" label as applied to the Camaro is arguable. I started driving in 1965 and followed the development of "muscle cars" closely. By the definition we understood then, the Camaro is not a muscle car. In the early 60's manufacturers began producing intermediate size cars with smaller V8 engines. GM, in particular, had a policy that limited V8 engine size to 327 (plus or minus cubic inches), hence the 326 in the Tempest, 330 in the Cutlass, the 327 in the Chevelle, etc. GM did this to keep the intermediate size car sales from cutting into the more expensive full size car sales. If you wanted a 389 or 421 Pontiac, you had to step up to a full size, because before GTO the largest you could get in a Tempest was a 326. It was Pontiac's John DeLorean that first did an end run around the engine size limit policy by installing the 389 from the full size Pontiac into the Tempest, thus creating the GTO. All the other GM divisions soon developed their own intermediates with engine from their full size models. Thus, a "muscle car" was an intermediate size body given additional "muscle" by installation of a large displacement engine previously offered only in full size models. Obviously, much has changed since then, and the Camaro doesn't fit that category, so call it what you will but it ain't a "mucle car" in the classic sense.

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Old 01-13-2009, 11:40 AM   #31
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Dragoneye I agree 100% only name and heritage belong to the musclecar term the rest modern day Sportscar
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:02 PM   #32
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Aye needs a new term because these cars use KITT (all the electronics and safety devices etc) just as much as legs. Advanced Sports Coupe.
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:05 PM   #33
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This is a semantic argument. No real winner either way. The term means different things to different people.

On one side you have the term "muscle car" painted with a wide brush to include any fast car. Fast car = Muscle Car.

On the other side you have a more precise break down where we can subdivide into "sports cars" such as Vettes, and "pony cars" such as Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers, and "Muscle Cars" (Intermediates with large engines) such as Chevelle SS, GTO's, Chargers and GSX's.

You can pick a side if you want to but I don't think you can officialy "win" this argument.

-Mark.
+1 It's a pony car
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:36 PM   #34
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muscle car = V8, RWD, 4/5 seats: camaro, charger, challenger, mustang, the old LT1 impalas......

sports car = track-minded suspension, 2 seater: corvette, viper, ford GT......
Using your definition, you would have to say the porsche 911 is not a sports car but a muscle car because it is a 2+2 seater?? naaaaaahhh, muscle cars traditionaly means going fast in a straight line and thats about it. Sports cars are about handleing and brakeing just as much as striaghtline speed. If my definition is correct then the camaro is a modern sports car with slightly retroish styling and a historic name.
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:00 PM   #35
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+1 It's a pony car
+1 again. (Does that = +2?) The Mustang was, for obvious reasons, the first "pony car" and hence the name was often used to refer to it and it's competition as being in the "pony car" category. If Camaro has to be categorized, that's where it fits. Still a competitor to Mustang, but better.

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Old 01-13-2009, 01:02 PM   #36
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it is a modern day muscle car....
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:19 PM   #37
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Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: muscle car
Pronunciation: \-ˌkär\
Function: noun
Date: 1969

: any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving


ccc
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:14 PM   #38
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The internet take on these categories of cars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Turismo_(automobile)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_car
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:25 PM   #39
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The new Camaro will be one bad ass Muscle Car!
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:30 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by camaro5 View Post
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: muscle car
Pronunciation: \-ˌkär\
Function: noun
Date: 1969

: any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving


ccc
Again I believe that definition is flawed, if that is the case then that would mean that america has never made a sports car ever... Corvette, Dodge Viper, Ford GT etc... would all be considered muscle cars not sports/super cars.
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:31 PM   #41
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Using your definition, you would have to say the porsche 911 is not a sports car but a muscle car because it is a 2+2 seater?? naaaaaahhh, muscle cars traditionaly means going fast in a straight line and thats about it. Sports cars are about handleing and brakeing just as much as striaghtline speed. If my definition is correct then the camaro is a modern sports car with slightly retroish styling and a historic name.
The Porsche 911 has a v8, I did not know that
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:33 PM   #42
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The new Camaro will be one bad ass Muscle Car!
Thats how I see it!
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:34 PM   #43
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Muscle cars are historicaly associated with 1/4 mile drag raceing, hence muscle cars are about straight line speed and not much else. Sports cars are about speed, handleing, brakeing etc... it is about the total package. The camaro is a modern 2+2 sports car with a nameplate that has a muscle car heritage.
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:47 PM   #44
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The Porsche 911 has a v8, I did not know that
Ha, ha, funny. no the porsche does not have a v8. But having a V8 is not the determining factor on whether a car is a muscle car or a sports car. Hence the Vette, it has a V8 and is not a muscle car. Now before you say "yah but the vette is a 2 seater", very true, but the vette is a sports car because of its handleing. There are plenty of 2+2 sports car coupes. the 911 is a 2+2 sports car, the M3 Coupe is a 2+2 sports car, heck the GT-R is a 2+2 sports/Super car. The reason these cars are sports cars is because of their ability to corner and brake JUST as good as going fast in a straight line. Again muscle cars are about 1/4 mile drag raceing and hence muslce cars are about straight line speed and thats it. Sports cars are about total performance which includes cornering and brakeing. The camaro is a modern 2+2 sports car.
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:47 PM   #45
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My opinion is that any car over 350 HP is a muscle car.
Then my neon SRT-4 is a muscle car? Not in my book.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:01 PM   #46
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Ok as someone who owns a muscle car they are full bodieed 64-74 Family type cas with a big flipping engine in them, GTO, Chevelle, NOVA, Charger & Challenger (old ones), ECT you can fit the whole family in the car plus food when we went to the store & Hull butt around afterwards. (5-6 seaters)

The Camaro is a Pony Car & thats what it is made for same with the Mustang. They are now classified as Sports COUPE because you can only fit 4 people in them (if they are small)

a sports car is a 2 seater that can scream down any track or road with out a problem, Corvette, GT500, Viper, Lambo.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:14 PM   #47
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Ok as someone who owns a muscle car they are full bodieed 64-74 Family type cas with a big flipping engine in them, GTO, Chevelle, NOVA, Charger & Challenger (old ones), ECT you can fit the whole family in the car plus food when we went to the store & Hull butt around afterwards. (5-6 seaters)

The Camaro is a Pony Car & thats what it is made for same with the Mustang. They are now classified as Sports COUPE because you can only fit 4 people in them (if they are small)

a sports car is a 2 seater that can scream down any track or road with out a problem, Corvette, GT500, Viper, Lambo.
Again, useing your logic would you say the Porsche 911 is a pony car, a M3 coupe a pony car etc... especially the M3 coupe. both the camaro and the M3 have a V8, IRS, LSD, 6spd transmissions, Brembo Brakes etc...
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:26 PM   #48
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Quote:
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Again, useing your logic would you say the Porsche 911 is a pony car, a M3 coupe a pony car etc... especially the M3 coupe. both the camaro and the M3 have a V8, IRS, LSD, 6spd transmissions, Brembo Brakes etc...
If you re read what I posted I said that they are NOW classified as SPORTS COUPES.Not only that the Porsche You can not fit 4 people in, PONEY CAR 4 people big engine!!!!!!!

Porsche 2 People Small engine Sporty Car

Then you want to get in to the SPORTY cars are the MR2, the Fieros, (anything Honda or any Japanize type cars)
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:34 PM   #49
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Sport cars have no back seats.for a very long time in america,the Corvette was the only american sports car.Then along came the viper ,now we have the solstice too.Muscle cars have back seats,and alot of HP .








And Foriegn cars do not qualify as muscle ,no matter what .When the last time you heard "German muscle" or "Japanese muscle" ?
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:44 PM   #50
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Ok as someone who owns a muscle car they are full bodieed 64-74 Family type cas with a big flipping engine in them, GTO, Chevelle, NOVA, Charger & Challenger (old ones), ECT you can fit the whole family in the car plus food when we went to the store & Hull butt around afterwards. (5-6 seaters)

The Camaro is a Pony Car & thats what it is made for same with the Mustang. They are now classified as Sports COUPE because you can only fit 4 people in them (if they are small)

a sports car is a 2 seater that can scream down any track or road with out a problem, Corvette, GT500, Viper, Lambo.
Ummm....the GT500 has four seats, dude.
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