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Old 01-13-2009, 06:45 PM   #51
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From the merriam-webster dictionary
Main Entry: muscle car
Pronunciation: \-ˌkär\
Function: noun
Date: 1969
: any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving


From the urban Dictionary
1. muscle car 340 up, 74 down
An automotive vehicle from the 40's, 50's, 60's, or 70's characterized by big displacement V-8s, big tires, chrome wheels, dual exhuast, racing stripes or flames, blowers, and speed.
"In a 15 year bloom, before tightening emission regulations and rocketing gas prices stamped extinct on an entire breed of cars in the '70s, America's automobile industry produced the most memorable cars built anywhere, anytime: "The American Muscle Car." While today's modern squeaky clean cars may approach the performance numbers put up 35 years ago, they will never duplicate the rush generated by 400-plus cubic inches fighting for tracion through period bias-ply tires. Pity today's car enthusiasts who think variable valve timing is the hot setup."
-Bruce Armstrong
by Wicked76 Sep 28, 2003 share this 2 comments
muscle car images
An Australian muscle car, a Holden Monaro 1968 HT GTS (350 Chev) For the Americans, think Chevy Camaro '69-'71
1of 2


2. muscle car 212 up, 44 down
An American performance car from the early 60's to the early 70's. They were generally an upgraded varient of a less powerful family car. Companies such as Chevy, Ford, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Dodge, and Plymouth joined the game. They all followed the same basic rules. 1.there is no replacement for displacement 2. there is no subsatute for cubic inches 3.horsepower sells motors, but torque wins races. The basic idea was to get the biggest engine and stick it in the smallest car avaliable at the time. The muscle car era was killed by inflating gas prices, emissions, and the cracking down of insurance companys.
Buick GSX, Olds 442, Chevy Nova, Plymouth Cuda, Dodge Charger etc.
by Derty Jul 12, 2004 share this add comment
3. muscle car 178 up, 75 down
Late model 2-door (usually) American car with a muscular appearance and more displacement, HP, and TORQUE than 3-5 rice motors (aka hamsters). Minimal cost/speed ratio; no JDM bling required for coolness. Destroys rice cars on impact. Large and comfortable, especially for those who aren't 5'5" and 120 lbs.

Occasionally seen sporting a slight lift in rear suspension. Internals are easy to access for maintenance/upgrade, unlike certain other vehicles (coff coff). Contrary to popular belief, will run until the apocalypse if the oil is changed every 3000 miles

Fast stock.
There's no replacement for displacement.

Muscle Car Driver: "Hey, how bout this: we race with 6 people in each car"
Ricer: "*GULP*"
Muscle Car Driver: "That's what I thought"

How many muscle era imports do you see driving around? Case-in-Point
by Big Tim Jul 9, 2004 share this add comment

4. muscle car 121 up, 26 down
American built car usually made from 1964 to 1974. These cars were typically low-cost, midsized family cars with larger engines taken from full size performance cars from 1960-1963. These cars are fast, durable, and easy to repair/modify. Typically seen winning drag races. Some cars that don't meet all these criteria can be considered muscle cars (such as the 1963 Ford Galaxie... expensive, full-size car, made before the "muscle car" era, but has a muscle engine and a long history of racing success)
Ford Fairlane, Ford Torino, Ford Mustang (only when equipped with 390+ cubic inch engines), Mercury Cyclone, Chevy II Nova, Chevy Chevelle, Pontiac GTO, Dodge Dart, Dodge Charger, Dodge Challenger
by Lee Mar 25, 2005 share this add comment
5. muscle car 118 up, 31 down
A mid-sized American performance car with a ground-pounding, 400-plus cubic inch, 400 plus horspower big-block with enough torque to sustain the earths rotation on the crankshaft. Usually seen stomping techno-wonder Imports and over-priced super cars. Can be fixed or modified by the average joe that doesnt have mommy\daddy to buy things for them for getting a good mark in school.Loud, proud, rude and crude, these are real mens cars.
Dodge Charger RT, Chevellle SS 454, Hemi 'Cuda, Camaro SS, Olds 442, 427 Corvette etc.Muscle car

So what if you have more horspower per liter, i have more horspower PERIOD.
a weak motor does not make up for a light car
my lug nuts require more torque than your engine makes
muscle-car hot rod musle car mucsle car yeah.
by Roseau Nov 29, 2005 share this 1 comment
6. muscle car 111 up, 38 down
1)A term usually assigned to mid-sizd, American cars produced in the mid 60's to mid 70's with oversized engines and light chassis.

2) Any rear-whel drive car made to go fast.
1) This hemi roadrunner is a classic example of a muscle car.

2) My big block Chevette can really **** up some import crap!!
by DoctorThrottle Apr 28, 2004 share this add comment
7. muscle car 107 up, 35 down
A car worthy of being called and not just a little piece of shit that was wound up at the fact 7-8 million times before being released into the American Market.
Muscle Car: 5.7L --- Sounds nice, is nice, is fast, bye bye rice.

Riceburner: 1.6L --- sounds like s, is t, is slow, s i lost.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:46 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
Ummm....the GT500 has four seats, dude.
HUM NOT A DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUDE
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:21 PM   #53
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... It was Pontiac's John DeLorean that first did an end run around the engine size limit policy by installing the 389 from the full size Pontiac into the Tempest, thus creating the GTO. All the other GM divisions soon developed their own intermediates with engine from their full size models. Thus, a "muscle car" was an intermediate size body given additional "muscle" by installation of a large displacement engine previously offered only in full size models. Obviously, much has changed since then, and the Camaro doesn't fit that category, so call it what you will but it ain't a "mucle car" in the classic sense.

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Old 01-13-2009, 08:16 PM   #54
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HUM NOT A DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUDE
Sorry, I was on my way out of work and made the quick reply without looking at the person who said it.

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Old 01-14-2009, 01:22 AM   #55
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Well my co-worker says my opinion is wrong because Car and Driver, Motortrend, and road and track don't list it the newer models to be Muscle Cars.. only 60s and 70s are listed as muscle cars..

I still disagree.. those are opinions of people who have the ability to put there opinions or what they say in a magazine.. because I don't means I'm wrong?

If Cheverolet itself says its not a muscle car whatsoever then I'll agree.. until then I'll still continue thinking that the New Camaro V8 SS is a muscle car.. just new and improved.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:28 AM   #56
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Ha, ha, funny. no the porsche does not have a v8. But having a V8 is not the determining factor on whether a car is a muscle car or a sports car. Hence the Vette, it has a V8 and is not a muscle car. Now before you say "yah but the vette is a 2 seater", very true, but the vette is a sports car because of its handleing. There are plenty of 2+2 sports car coupes. the 911 is a 2+2 sports car, the M3 Coupe is a 2+2 sports car, heck the GT-R is a 2+2 sports/Super car. The reason these cars are sports cars is because of their ability to corner and brake JUST as good as going fast in a straight line. Again muscle cars are about 1/4 mile drag raceing and hence muslce cars are about straight line speed and thats it. Sports cars are about total performance which includes cornering and brakeing. The camaro is a modern 2+2 sports car.
yah, but the vette is a 2 seater


couldnt help myself on that one


the reason behind me making a list was that every condition had to be met, you cant just look at it going it has rwd so it must be a muscle car even tho its a ford ranger. or it has only two seats so it must be a sports car even tho its, yet again, a ford ranger
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:32 AM   #57
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Muscle cars have muscle (Horsepower ) that's what makes them a muscle car.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:42 AM   #58
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In the case of muscle cars being defined as vehicles with huge engines and crude suspensions, then that makes them much alike bodybuilders: lots of power, yet rather awkward in complex motion.

I'd rather use the term with a lot more freedom. The best thing about calling something a muscle car is that if your heart tells you it's a muscle car, it's a muscle car. I think the term 'muscle car' is more of a term of endearment than it is a vehicle classification. Notice that it is hardly ever, if at all, used in a negative tone. The new Camaro is a sports car, definitely. But to me, it's a muscle car.

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Old 01-14-2009, 11:32 AM   #59
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EEk gad....there were only two people on here that had a clue of what they are talking about. Guess you have to be an older person, or have done some research to get it.

The Camaro isn't now, or at any time in it's past a muscle car. Period. It WAS and probably still is a Pony car. The muscle car was a mid-size car with an over-sized engine stuffed into it and usually a coupe. READ - family car with two doors and large engine.

The Camaro was made to go against the Mustang which was a segment buster when it came out since it didn't fit into the muscle car definition at the time. A Pony car wasn't a mid sized family car, it was a 2 + 2 from the start, but made for the masses, unlike sports cars which were lower volume cars.

These days all those older definitions really are toast. The cars that come closest to the original definition of muscle car would be the the Doge Magnum, Challenger/Charger and to a lesser extent the Chevy Impalla SS (although front wheel drive problem). Yet they don't exactly fit either....

Pony Car is still what best describes the Camaro..although the word makes Chevy guys cringe.

Today we have new word...sports coupe to describe the Camaro and it does a pretty good job of it. Today's Camaro is much more the sports car than in the past, but still different from a sports car definition in that it is a 2+2 and never really made to be a limited production car.

Today we are going to be driving a sports couple with Pony car heritage.

Take the muscle car talk over to the Dodge forum or maybe to the G8 board (a 2 door G8 WOULD be the modern muscle car equivalent)
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:39 AM   #60
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A. has to have a V8

B. has to have terrible gas milage

C. has to be built for straight line performance ... this doesnt mean it cant go around corners, just means you could care less about them.

D. has to be rugged.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:23 PM   #61
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Lol. I think this question is literally on every single car-related forum I have ever been to. I think an even more important question is "Why is it important what's considered a muscle car?" Seriously, what difference does it make? I am not saying that to be flip, because there may be a good reason. And that reason will lead you where you will find the answer to the "What's considered a muscle car?" For example, does Muscle Car status affect insurance rates? Probably not, but if so, then look to the insurance industry for the answer. Does it affect what will be covered in a particular magazine or trade publication? If so, then ask the magazine publishers what makes something a muscle car. Does it affect what your peers will think of you? If so, then ask your peers what a muscle car is. Lastly, does it affect what you think of the car you own? If so, then the answer is within, grasshopper .

You have to answer the fundamental question of "why does it matter?" before you can answer the "What". The variety of answers and debate in this thread is evidence of that.
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:02 PM   #62
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No matter how its defined i will always call it a muscle car. Sports car sounds like the euro cars like porshe, bmw, etc. even though i agree with most of the arguements here lets look at purpose, sure they are now being designed to corner and handle well unlike the muscle of past but as for use how many people are going to road race them because my guess is there place will still be on a straight drag strip so that being the case im going to have to label it muscle plus it sounds better then sports car.
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Old 01-15-2009, 03:37 PM   #63
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A muscle car is a fast car that has sufficient handling to head back and make another pass at the drag strip. So for the most part I don't consider Camaro's to be muscle cars.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:17 AM   #64
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Lol. I think this question is literally on every single car-related forum I have ever been to. I think an even more important question is "Why is it important what's considered a muscle car?" Seriously, what difference does it make? I am not saying that to be flip, because there may be a good reason. And that reason will lead you where you will find the answer to the "What's considered a muscle car?" For example, does Muscle Car status affect insurance rates? Probably not, but if so, then look to the insurance industry for the answer. Does it affect what will be covered in a particular magazine or trade publication? If so, then ask the magazine publishers what makes something a muscle car. Does it affect what your peers will think of you? If so, then ask your peers what a muscle car is. Lastly, does it affect what you think of the car you own? If so, then the answer is within, grasshopper .

You have to answer the fundamental question of "why does it matter?" before you can answer the "What". The variety of answers and debate in this thread is evidence of that.
lol.. you clearly just don't get it. Did I ever say any of those pointless things you mentioned? WOW! Way to over analyze something that wasn't that complicated to begin with. Good Job guy! you're great! *sarcasm*

Anyways... actually had a Car and Driver magazine July 2008 issue with the SRT8 Challenger and the Mustang Bullit.. the front cover itself under the pic of the cars, on the left side of the magazine states Modern American Muscle Cars.. so I would go ahead and assume the Camaro falls in the same category if they're saying that about the Challenger and Mustang.
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:32 AM   #65
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lol.. you clearly just don't get it. Did I ever say any of those pointless things you mentioned? WOW! Way to over analyze something that wasn't that complicated to begin with. Good Job guy! you're great! *sarcasm*

Anyways... actually had a Car and Driver magazine July 2008 issue with the SRT8 Challenger and the Mustang Bullit.. the front cover itself under the pic of the cars, on the left side of the magazine states Modern American Muscle Cars.. so I would go ahead and assume the Camaro falls in the same category if they're saying that about the Challenger and Mustang.
except that the chally and mustang both handle like steaming piles of crap compared to the camaro
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:28 PM   #66
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I geuss maybe just look at the car in question and IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, IT'S NOT MUSCLE!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:33 PM   #67
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A muscle car is a fast car that has sufficient handling to head back and make another pass at the drag strip. So for the most part I don't consider Camaro's to be muscle cars.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:34 PM   #68
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except that the chally and mustang both handle like steaming piles of crap compared to the camaro
lolllllllllllllllll relax you dont have concrete numbers tested yet...until then the challenger and mustang are better....i expect the camaro to be better but not by much.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:52 PM   #69
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lolllllllllllllllll relax you dont have concrete numbers tested yet...until then the challenger and mustang are better....i expect the camaro to be better but not by much.
You haven't read the V6 prototype Camaro reviews have you??

"And topping it all off, the Camaro essentially blows away its competition - the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger seem positively primitive in comparison, a couple of rough-edged, cost-cut, sedan-derived chunks of ordinary."

"The ride quality of the Camaro doesn’t even rate a comparison with the lesser Mustang, and it makes the Challenger’s handling feel plodding."

....I can't wait for the SS reviews!
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:57 PM   #70
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Muscle Car=Bad Ass

Camaro=Bad Ass in all categories

So the Camaro would be a Muscle Car, and then some
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:59 PM   #71
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what does it take to be a muscle car?


does it have muscle?

yes.


its a muscle car.

its ALSO a sports coupe.

its a muscular sports coupe.



/discussion
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:30 PM   #72
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lol.. you clearly just don't get it. Did I ever say any of those pointless things you mentioned? WOW! Way to over analyze something that wasn't that complicated to begin with. Good Job guy! you're great! *sarcasm*

Anyways... actually had a Car and Driver magazine July 2008 issue with the SRT8 Challenger and the Mustang Bullit.. the front cover itself under the pic of the cars, on the left side of the magazine states Modern American Muscle Cars.. so I would go ahead and assume the Camaro falls in the same category if they're saying that about the Challenger and Mustang.
I'm sorry my answer didn't make sense to you. How do I not "get it"? I was trying to find out why it was important to you that you determine whether or not something is a muscle car. I didn't say that any of those answers applied to you, personally. Just relax! . Before a question can be answered, you have to know the criteria for how the question can be answered. In some cases, including this one, the criteria for answering the question is not obvious. If you're going to criticize my method, at least provide an alternative so that we don't have to keep guessing as to how to answer the question.

Besides, it sounds like you actually answer the question about why it matters in your second paragraph. You care about what a particular industry publication calls a car, therefore you go with that answer. That's a perfectly legitimate way of doing it.
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:31 AM   #73
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I'm sorry my answer didn't make sense to you. How do I not "get it"? I was trying to find out why it was important to you that you determine whether or not something is a muscle car. I didn't say that any of those answers applied to you, personally. Just relax! . Before a question can be answered, you have to know the criteria for how the question can be answered. In some cases, including this one, the criteria for answering the question is not obvious. If you're going to criticize my method, at least provide an alternative so that we don't have to keep guessing as to how to answer the question.

Besides, it sounds like you actually answer the question about why it matters in your second paragraph. You care about what a particular industry publication calls a car, therefore you go with that answer. That's a perfectly legitimate way of doing it.

I'm not basing anything on any one question.. its a simple question to everyone. What is considered a muscle car to you? that simple.. reasons to why you think the new camaro is a muscle car and reasons to why you don't think it is... what's your opinion? My opinion is that its a modern muscle car.. no one is going to change my opinion on that. I was just interested in what others opinions were and reaons to why they think the way they do..
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:18 AM   #74
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You haven't read the V6 prototype Camaro reviews have you??

"And topping it all off, the Camaro essentially blows away its competition - the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger seem positively primitive in comparison, a couple of rough-edged, cost-cut, sedan-derived chunks of ordinary."

"The ride quality of the Camaro doesn’t even rate a comparison with the lesser Mustang, and it makes the Challenger’s handling feel plodding."

....I can't wait for the SS reviews!
Yep, the V6 almost rides like a Cadillac CTS that has the same engine in it..
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:00 AM   #75
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Is a Pontiac G8 a muscle car?

This car seems pretty underrated (much like the 2004-06 GTO), and to me it seems sort of in between a sports car and a muscle car, but it's not really either. It's not a pony car either. So, what is it?
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Past cars: 1965 Corvette 396 Convertible, 1971 Olds 4-4-2 W-30, 1974 Z28, 1980 Z28, 1984 Z28, 1987 Mustang GT, 1995 Mustang GT - all M4 or M5.
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