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Old 01-19-2009, 10:59 AM   #76
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a car with a six pack in the back
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:22 PM   #77
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My opinion is that its a modern muscle car.
Hmm. Perhaps we should take a stab at figuring out what exactly is 'modern muscle'?
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:59 PM   #78
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Is a Pontiac G8 a muscle car?

This car seems pretty underrated (much like the 2004-06 GTO), and to me it seems sort of in between a sports car and a muscle car, but it's not really either. It's not a pony car either. So, what is it?
BMW bitch slapping sport sedan.
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Old 08-01-2009, 07:39 AM   #79
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This is a very old debate, that has no right or wrong answers. In fact it can be debated if the ’65 GTO was the first American Muscle Car. But for this discussion we will assume that Pontiac started the Muscle Car craze in America during the 60s. The formula was simple, put a big block engine from a full-size car into a mid-size car. What they did was create a factory built “Hot Rod”. Like any great idea in the automotive industry, if it’s successful with one model, why not apply it to other models? So, while the first muscle cars of the ’60s were mid-size cars with big motors, other cars such as, the ’69 Mustang Boss 429, clearly used the same Muscle Car formula. In my opinion, any America car where the performance is the number one option, where it has far more horsepower then it needs can be called a muscle car. Anyone remember the ’84 Mustang SVO? Not a conventional muscle car but still the best Detroit had to offer at the time. The Muscle Car title does not extend to the whole model line it is reserved for the top performance models. The GTO is the exception since was a unique model without a lower model option.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:24 PM   #80
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Had a roomate who had an SVO ('84 I think) many moons ago...kept asking me to buy it but I was not into the turbo 4-banger idea at the time...he had it for a long time and couldn't sell it...advertised all over the place too...
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:39 PM   #81
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a car with a case in the back
Fixed it for ya..
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:34 AM   #82
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I'm gonna say the new Mustang and Camaro are pony cars not muscle cars and the car turn fairly well as well as go fast straight. Not the Challenger though, the SRT-8 is all muscle.
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:51 AM   #83
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I think we need to have a new category "Sports Muscle".
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:09 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by bobscogin View Post
The "sports car" or "muscle car" label as applied to the Camaro is arguable. I started driving in 1965 and followed the development of "muscle cars" closely. By the definition we understood then, the Camaro is not a muscle car. In the early 60's manufacturers began producing intermediate size cars with smaller V8 engines. GM, in particular, had a policy that limited V8 engine size to 327 (plus or minus cubic inches), hence the 326 in the Tempest, 330 in the Cutlass, the 327 in the Chevelle, etc. GM did this to keep the intermediate size car sales from cutting into the more expensive full size car sales. If you wanted a 389 or 421 Pontiac, you had to step up to a full size, because before GTO the largest you could get in a Tempest was a 326. It was Pontiac's John DeLorean that first did an end run around the engine size limit policy by installing the 389 from the full size Pontiac into the Tempest, thus creating the GTO. All the other GM divisions soon developed their own intermediates with engine from their full size models. Thus, a "muscle car" was an intermediate size body given additional "muscle" by installation of a large displacement engine previously offered only in full size models. Obviously, much has changed since then, and the Camaro doesn't fit that category, so call it what you will but it ain't a "mucle car" in the classic sense.

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That's how I understood it.

Kinda like this----



Last edited by Toyaholic; 01-23-2010 at 02:15 AM. Reason: added pics
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:26 AM   #85
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My father used to say, Muscle car's are an excuse for not being able to make a good sports car. lmao


Personally I think today's cars aren't rough around the edges enough to be real Muscle cars.... maybe the GT500.. but idk.
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:30 AM   #86
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v8 Muscle Car
v6 Sports Car

Eazy peazy =p
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:54 AM   #87
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:04 AM   #88
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Wow. After reading all of this debate, I sought clarification; Here are some definitions I unearthed on Wikipedia (not the Bible, but a readily available reference).

Muscle Car. Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high performance automobiles.[1][2] At its most widely accepted the term refers to American 2-door rear wheel drive mid-size cars of the late 1960s and early 1970s equipped with large, powerful V8s and sold at an affordable price for street use and drag racing, formally and informally.[3][4][5][6]
As such, they are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing.

In this category the following cars are listed: AMX, Chevelle, Charger, Torino, Montego, 442, Road Runner, and GTO.

Now ... the Pony Car. Pony car is an American class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964.[1] [2] The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image. "It was small by Detroit standards, with sporty styling... [a]nd the rear wheels were driven by an engine — ideally a big V8 — mounted up front..."[3] Pony cars were "relatively small, relatively light and often absurdly powerful.

In this category the following cars are listed: Javelin, Camaro, Challenger, Mustang, Cougar, Barracuda, and Firebird.

I will go ahead and place a blindfold on because I realize the messenger is always shot. Have fun with this.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:37 AM   #89
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That's how I understood it.

Kinda like this----


Beautiful car.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:52 AM   #90
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Tactical Z: I believe that beautiful 442 would meet the definition.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:57 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjmac49 View Post
Wow. After reading all of this debate, I sought clarification; Here are some definitions I unearthed on Wikipedia (not the Bible, but a readily available reference).

Muscle Car. Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high performance automobiles.[1][2] At its most widely accepted the term refers to American 2-door rear wheel drive mid-size cars of the late 1960s and early 1970s equipped with large, powerful V8s and sold at an affordable price for street use and drag racing, formally and informally.[3][4][5][6]
As such, they are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing.

In this category the following cars are listed: AMX, Chevelle, Charger, Torino, Montego, 442, Road Runner, and GTO.

Now ... the Pony Car. Pony car is an American class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964.[1] [2] The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image. "It was small by Detroit standards, with sporty styling... [a]nd the rear wheels were driven by an engine — ideally a big V8 — mounted up front..."[3] Pony cars were "relatively small, relatively light and often absurdly powerful.

In this category the following cars are listed: Javelin, Camaro, Challenger, Mustang, Cougar, Barracuda, and Firebird.

I will go ahead and place a blindfold on because I realize the messenger is always shot. Have fun with this.
+1,000
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:02 AM   #92
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Tactical Z: I believe that beautiful 442 would meet the definition.
Sorry...

*Beautiful Oldsmobile 442
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:03 AM   #93
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Beautiful car.
Thanks! She doesn't see much road time now the Camaro is here. But, MAN...... when you kick in the other 2 carbs, just try to stop smiling. Bet you can't.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:18 AM   #94
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Thanks! She doesn't see much road time now the Camaro is here. But, MAN...... when you kick in the other 2 carbs, just try to stop smiling. Bet you can't.
Does it have the W-30 package? (scoops under the front bumper)?
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:50 AM   #95
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Not a factory w-30.
Was a 4speed / 400ci car, still has the peddles, but replaced it with a TH400, shift kit, 2600 stall, His/Her Hurst shifter going to the 12 bolt posi. The intake is a 1966 L69 tri-power with powder coated carb sitting on a '69 Toronado 455 high compression motor. Now if I could get some traction. More than the 295 Firehawk's can handle.


Obviously not a purist.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:26 PM   #96
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Damn torque =p
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:25 AM   #97
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A muscle car is a fast car that has sufficient handling to head back and make another pass at the drag strip. So for the most part I don't consider Camaro's to be muscle cars.
I still stand by this 'functional' definition
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:55 AM   #98
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For 30K+, it's whatever you damn well want to call it.
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:14 PM   #99
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Muscle car has nothing to do with age, its a purpose. Cars built with v8's with performance at the top of the list of attributes are muscle cars.
My opinion...I think you could definately call the new Camaro SS a Muscle Car at slightly better than 420 hp.
2010 Camaro 300 hp v6..sports car.

What is really a joke is when people call plain jane cars muscle cars.
For example, a 1969 Camaro that came with a 307 is not a muscle car.
Muscle car means "factory" not a transplanted or altered.
Conversely, a 69 Camaro SS 350 is a muscle car. A 70 Chevelle with a 350 is not a muscle car, a 70 Chevelle SS 396 is a muscle car. A 340 Dart, muscle car. 318 dart not a muscle car. 69 cougar eliminator 428 = muscle, 69 cougar 302 2bbl nope.

2008 mustang GT, sports car, not a muscle car, 2008 Shelby = muscle car. Viper = c@ck extension.
I'm not sure I fully understand your "logic."
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:16 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjmac49 View Post
Wow. After reading all of this debate, I sought clarification; Here are some definitions I unearthed on Wikipedia (not the Bible, but a readily available reference).

Muscle Car. Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high performance automobiles.[1][2] At its most widely accepted the term refers to American 2-door rear wheel drive mid-size cars of the late 1960s and early 1970s equipped with large, powerful V8s and sold at an affordable price for street use and drag racing, formally and informally.[3][4][5][6]
As such, they are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing.

In this category the following cars are listed: AMX, Chevelle, Charger, Torino, Montego, 442, Road Runner, and GTO.

Now ... the Pony Car. Pony car is an American class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964.[1] [2] The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image. "It was small by Detroit standards, with sporty styling... [a]nd the rear wheels were driven by an engine — ideally a big V8 — mounted up front..."[3] Pony cars were "relatively small, relatively light and often absurdly powerful.

In this category the following cars are listed: Javelin, Camaro, Challenger, Mustang, Cougar, Barracuda, and Firebird.

I will go ahead and place a blindfold on because I realize the messenger is always shot. Have fun with this.
Now, this I understand!
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