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Old 11-22-2010, 06:28 PM   #1
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removing torque management

I need some clarity on the torque management feature. I want to remove all of it, but it's supposed to be for safety. I've always had older cars that made pretty decent power, and there was never any torque management needed to protect anything. I guess what i'm saying is that if these transmissions are pretty strong, then it's not really necessary to have them on, after all, would'nt removing it be the equivalent of adding power? I'm just using an example, but adding a set of headers will increase power that directly has to be handled by the trans. Would'nt the removal of the tm be like adding a set of headers?
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:38 PM   #2
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TM is only active up to about 3k rpm. After that it's completely off. It's what keeps your drivetrain happy. While everyone will agree that GM put too much TM into the tune, few will recommend it to be competely off. This goes for a daily driver. Most if not all handhelds address this by decreasing the amount of TM. I don't think any of the handheld canned tunes take it away completely. You'd have to have a custom tune to do that. I'd suggest you talk to a few of the shops and see what they recommend.
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:16 PM   #3
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Ahh, take it away like most that get a dyno tune and be happy. If you are not over 500rwhp the stock drive train is fine. People are using drag radials with full bolt ons with gears and are doing fine. It is a lot more fun without TM!!!
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:35 AM   #4
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Cant you just hold down the ?traction control? button for 10 secondsto automaticly turn off the TM?
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:10 AM   #5
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Cant you just hold down the ?traction control? button for 10 secondsto automaticly turn off the TM?
No. Only a tune will. Holding it down for 10 seconds will turn off traction control and stubilitrack - excuse my spelling....long night.
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:51 AM   #6
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Below 3500 RPM TM reduction will make a huge difference in torque. I believe this is a must for anyone looking to run good ET at the track because we will never be able to cut good 60' times with all the TM in this car.
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:54 AM   #7
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not even my grandma's car has torque management in it.
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axis View Post
TM is only active up to about 3k rpm. After that it's completely off. It's what keeps your drivetrain happy. While everyone will agree that GM put too much TM into the tune, few will recommend it to be competely off. This goes for a daily driver. Most if not all handhelds address this by decreasing the amount of TM. I don't think any of the handheld canned tunes take it away completely. You'd have to have a custom tune to do that. I'd suggest you talk to a few of the shops and see what they recommend.
I did not know that TM was only below 3500 rpms. I've always believed that TM is applied on WOT shifts (that's what I've always been told) to reduce wear on the transmission.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:25 AM   #9
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Here is a good read if you have the time ...

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ing/index.html
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:44 AM   #10
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Here is a good read if you have the time ...

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ing/index.html


Yeah, that's Jeremy Formato doing the tuning in that arcticle. He tuned my L99 A6.
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:08 PM   #11
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WOW! It looks like removing torque management is at least as productive as bolting on a set of headers! The purpose of torque management is purely for trans longevity, which is compromised whenever you add things to increase horsepower anyway. So i guess there is no real reason to keep it on if you are going to add bolt ons, because it defeats the purpose of hot rodding in the first place.
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Old 11-27-2010, 09:17 PM   #12
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Good to know!!!!!
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Old 11-27-2010, 09:27 PM   #13
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TM is active on all shifts no matter what RPM... you will especially feel it during WOT... shifting is real slooowwww.
Reduce it, don't eliminate it and you will be chirping the tires and getting the full enjoyment out of your A6...

The next best bang for your buck is a Torque Converter...
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:09 AM   #14
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So where is the TM in the GM article stock dyno graph? I suspect that you don't see the dip because they start it at over 3k rpm. If you look at most other graphs that start below 3k rpm, you'll see a dip in the tq curve, then it increases after ~3.2k rpm. It was my impression that this is TM limiting your tq on take off. There's no reason to limit your tq in the higher rpms because you've already got this pig moving by then.

This is the L99 dyno thread. If you look at just about every one of the graphs, it shows the exact same dip at the exact same RPM level.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...L99+dyno+graph

Here is another thread with Ted talking about the TM.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ent+parameters
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:38 AM   #15
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Not sure how you could see TM on a dyno graph since it's all done in one gear. Also TQ is usually at it's peak at 3000 so that may be why there is more focus on low RPMs. I could be mixing it up with other adjusments so I'll defer to your expertise.

Bottom line is having the A6 TM and shift pressures adjusted... your car will literally jump ahead of a no tune Camaro every time it shifts when running WOT side by side down the drag strip.
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Old 11-28-2010, 11:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
Not sure how you could see TM on a dyno graph since it's all done in one gear. Also TQ is usually at it's peak at 3000 so that may be why there is more focus on low RPMs. I could be mixing it up with other adjusments so I'll defer to your expertise.

Bottom line is having the A6 TM and shift pressures adjusted... your car will literally jump ahead of a no tune Camaro every time it shifts when running WOT side by side down the drag strip.

Under Torque Management there is something called "Shift Torque Factor." This limits the rpms on shifts. This can be adjusted for each shift independently (1-2 shift, 3-4 shift, 5-6 shift).
There's also something called "Tip-In TM" and "Flare TM."
TM is adjusted on downshifts, upshifts, etc.

There's also Trans Input max and Trans Output max. This can be adjusted to only allow a certain amount of Torque to be applied. As described in the article these are set "too low" and can be further optimized.
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:32 PM   #17
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I need to look at this once I get my car. I have EFILive.

Thanks.
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:08 PM   #18
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when i got my dyno tune, i for sure could tell at lower RPM the TM was gone. stop and go was very smooth transition. kind of hard to explain. i guess the camaro didn't feel as sluggish at lower RPM which i loved.
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Old 11-28-2010, 05:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGOS252382 View Post
Under Torque Management there is something called "Shift Torque Factor." This limits the rpms on shifts. This can be adjusted for each shift independently (1-2 shift, 3-4 shift, 5-6 shift).
There's also something called "Tip-In TM" and "Flare TM."
TM is adjusted on downshifts, upshifts, etc.

There's also Trans Input max and Trans Output max. This can be adjusted to only allow a certain amount of Torque to be applied. As described in the article these are set "too low" and can be further optimized.
Thanks...
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Old 11-28-2010, 06:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by mlee View Post
Not sure how you could see TM on a dyno graph since it's all done in one gear. Also TQ is usually at it's peak at 3000 so that may be why there is more focus on low RPMs. I could be mixing it up with other adjusments so I'll defer to your expertise.
Here is the graph shown in Teds thread. You can clearly see the Tq limited to ~280 under 3.2k rpm. After that point, it goes up dramatically. The graph shows that TM isn't necessarily gear limited but RPM limited. I'm FAR from an expert, just someone that reads a lot of threads,


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Old 11-28-2010, 07:09 PM   #21
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Cool... and here's the next one he posted w/ TM off.. The High RPMs look a heck of a lot better too...
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:17 AM   #22
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It's not really different up top. Look at the numbers on the right side. The tq reference numbers are different on your posted graph. Map out the tq at each RPM and you'll find that they are nearly identical.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:29 AM   #23
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Just wondering the canned tunes can they reduce the tm to a certain % or do they just shut it off
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:44 AM   #24
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It's not really different up top. Look at the numbers on the right side. The tq reference numbers are different on your posted graph. Map out the tq at each RPM and you'll find that they are nearly identical.
True... both Tq curves are pretty much identical which brings me back to my original question of how to see TM reduction or removal on a dyno graph. I didn't think removing TM would show increase TQ on a dyno graph. I could be wrong though...

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Just wondering the canned tunes can they reduce the tm to a certain % or do they just shut it off
They would reduce it by a certain %...
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:04 AM   #25
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Its not peak numbers, its more the raise at the lower rpm's.
Compare the numbers say at 2500rpm, with tqm its at 275 without its over 300.
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