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Old 01-13-2009, 02:18 PM   #1
elecautocr
 
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Unhappy low power

Hi, I have a Camaro of the 98, 3.8L with the next problem:
- rough idle, it seems that is working only 4 or 5 cylinders, but all the 6 are working.
-. rich fuel mixture (but O2 sensors indicate 70mV)
-. accelerates too bad!!!

I have checked the spark in the spark plugs cables and are fine. The fuel injectors` pulse time is aprox 5ms in all the injectors. Fuel injectors are clean and not leaking. Engine compression : 170psi. Fuel pressure: 47 psi (engine running). AFM indicates 7g/s at idle


DTC present = misfire

Does anyone can help me???
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:11 PM   #2
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try this and see if it helps
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10787
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:20 PM   #3
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are your o2 sensors fluctuating or are they staying at 70mV?

if they arent fluctuating then they arent working. and you are dumping too much fuel into the cylinders which is not ignigting properly and thus causeing a misfire.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:25 AM   #4
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are your o2 sensors fluctuating or are they staying at 70mV?

if they arent fluctuating then they arent working. and you are dumping too much fuel into the cylinders which is not ignigting properly and thus causeing a misfire.
The O2 sensors are NOT fluctuating, they`re fixed at 70mV. I disconected both O2 sensors and started the camaro again (I don`t hope the car runs OK, but at least I wanted to see some improvement), but the fail is the same!!!

ahhh, when I disconected the O2 sensors, in the scanner I read the 450mV as I was hoping.

... about the spark plugs, it was calibrated at 0.06", then I calibrated it to .040, but the problem is the same!!!

.... another advice????
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:25 PM   #5
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You probably need now O2 sensors. Just unplugging them wont help the problem because they still wont be getting a good reading. I would suggest O2s first and then go from there.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:45 PM   #6
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Fuel pressure regulator is my guess. Pull the vacuum line on it and if gas comes out of the top of the regulator that's your problem.
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elecautocr View Post
The O2 sensors are NOT fluctuating, they`re fixed at 70mV. I disconected both O2 sensors and started the camaro again (I don`t hope the car runs OK, but at least I wanted to see some improvement), but the fail is the same!!!

ahhh, when I disconected the O2 sensors, in the scanner I read the 450mV as I was hoping.

... about the spark plugs, it was calibrated at 0.06", then I calibrated it to .040, but the problem is the same!!!

.... another advice????
replace the o2's if they arent fluctuating when they are warm, they arent working.

when you disconnect the o2's, the pcm automatically sets the reading at 450mV which is right in the middle of the o2's range. you need to replace the o2's and reset the pcm. keep in mind that it will take a day or two of driving for the pcm to "relearn" its operating levels with the new o2's.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:37 PM   #8
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check the compression of each cylinder, maybe some of the cylinder/s are loosing compression.
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:39 AM   #9
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Could it be Distributor Cap, Rotor, Coil pack or something like that?

On my dad's car, it starts rough and makes noises when you punch it to 60 MPH.
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:55 AM   #10
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But now that I read the post and think about it, maby not.

Just a thought.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:22 PM   #11
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Could it be Distributor Cap, Rotor, Coil pack or something like that?

On my dad's car, it starts rough and makes noises when you punch it to 60 MPH.
his o2 sensors are faulty causing a rich fuel condition which is causing his misfire. they need to be replaced.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:34 PM   #12
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I had same stuff going on with my truck, no power at high speeds idle fine just no power. thought it was cat, then trans because it wouldn't kickdown but we changed the fuel filter and he truck came alive, it runs great now. goodluck
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:26 AM   #13
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Hi,

thanks for your help!!!, .... but the problem is still present.

Yesterday I received the O2 sensors (part number BOSCH 0258005738 and 0258005720) and I changed both, but the problem is almost THE SAME!!, the only change is that now I can "move" (a little) the car when it`s hot (but the fail is still present), with the old O2 sensors the car didn`t move never, it had not power!!!

With the new sensors (the same that with old ones), idle speed is not fine, it has excess of fuel.

The fuel regulator is not broken, I changed all the ignition coils and I tested engine compression (170-180psi).

A difference I noted with this new sensors is that always they`re in 50mV (doesn`t fluctuate), but if I accelerate the car, the reading goes to 700-800mV and then goes again to 50-70mV.

I drove the car for 400 meters and the fails is still present, do you know if is needed some "relearnig" procedure, or drive the car some distance???

I think that I had tested almost everything in the car!!!!

I forgot tell you that the car was not running for about 5 months because the owner lost the keys, then I eliminate (disable) the VATS system using the "HP tuners" software, but I reprogramm only the VATS, then the car runs but the fail began (the owner told that before the car was running OK).

thanks again!!!
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Old 02-05-2009, 06:42 PM   #14
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Just some humble suggestions:

Could it be something in the ignigion system? (Spark plugs, wires, coil, optispark, ect)

Maby it is the computer?
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elecautocr View Post
Hi,

thanks for your help!!!, .... but the problem is still present.

Yesterday I received the O2 sensors (part number BOSCH 0258005738 and 0258005720) and I changed both, but the problem is almost THE SAME!!, the only change is that now I can "move" (a little) the car when it`s hot (but the fail is still present), with the old O2 sensors the car didn`t move never, it had not power!!!

With the new sensors (the same that with old ones), idle speed is not fine, it has excess of fuel.

The fuel regulator is not broken, I changed all the ignition coils and I tested engine compression (170-180psi).

A difference I noted with this new sensors is that always they`re in 50mV (doesn`t fluctuate), but if I accelerate the car, the reading goes to 700-800mV and then goes again to 50-70mV.

it seems like the front o2s are still not reading properly. either that or the fuel/spark tables are completely off kilter as its reading lean at idle but rich at throttle.

check the wiring for the o2's. they might be burnt or grounding out.


I drove the car for 400 meters and the fails is still present, do you know if is needed some "relearnig" procedure, or drive the car some distance???
sometimes you need to reset the pcm by pulling the "pcm ignition" fuse to clear the codes. however it will take a little bit of driving for the pcm to "relearn" the operating parameters
I think that I had tested almost everything in the car!!!!

I forgot tell you that the car was not running for about 5 months because the owner lost the keys, then I eliminate (disable) the VATS system using the "HP tuners" software, but I reprogramm only the VATS, then the car runs but the fail began (the owner told that before the car was running OK).

thanks again!!!
one other thing.... you said it was sitting for 5 months. did you drain the gas? or are you using the gas that was still in the tank? (we need a lightbulb smiley) drain the gas out and fill it up with some 91, pour a can of Seafoam into the new gas, reset the pcm, then fire it up and let it idle for a little.






Quote:
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Just some humble suggestions:

Could it be something in the ignigion system? (Spark plugs, wires, coil, optispark, ect)

Maby it is the computer?
3.8 doesnt have an opti.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:42 AM   #16
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3.8 doesnt have an opti.
(We need an embarassed smiley)


lol, My bad... :(
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:14 AM   #17
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Looking forward to the outcome...

Will spike be right?....
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:29 AM   #18
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I have checked timing and is fine, wiring is not broken or short to ground.

I was doing the ckp sensor learning procedure (I don`t know why but I`m almost sure that the problem is something like that), but I never had finish succesfully the procedure, the scanner says that must have ign off, then on, start engine, press brake, keep idle, press start bottom (in scanner), goes to 5150 RPM and when cuts off ... the procedure is done!!!, but it never cuts off.

... one time, at the end of the learning procedure, appears the message saying that the car wasn`t in Parking or neutral. I checked the wiring diagram and manual transmission cars doesn`t use neutral sw, or am I wrong???

Do you know if I made some mistake or forgot something in the learning procedure?

thanks again!!!
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elecautocr View Post
I have checked timing and is fine, wiring is not broken or short to ground.

I was doing the ckp sensor learning procedure (I don`t know why but I`m almost sure that the problem is something like that), but I never had finish succesfully the procedure, the scanner says that must have ign off, then on, start engine, press brake, keep idle, press start bottom (in scanner), goes to 5150 RPM and when cuts off ... the procedure is done!!!, but it never cuts off.

... one time, at the end of the learning procedure, appears the message saying that the car wasn`t in Parking or neutral. I checked the wiring diagram and manual transmission cars doesn`t use neutral sw, or am I wrong???

Do you know if I made some mistake or forgot something in the learning procedure?

thanks again!!!
are you getting a P1336 code?

are you still getting any codes? if you are, then doing the ckp learn will not fully work as the DTC's can cause faults in the learn process.
clear or correct the codes first.
hold the brake and put the transmission in Neutral.
A/C must be “OFF” and the hood closed.
At this point, use the scan tool and select CASE Learn:
Open the accelerator to the CASE fuel cutoff speed and release it as soon as the PCM cuts off the fuel and the engine begins to decelerate.
The scan tool will identify when the procedure is complete.



tho you still havent answered my questions about the fuel or what all DTC's you are getting.
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Quote:
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Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
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Quote:
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I piss excellence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
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But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:28 AM   #20
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The only DTS I have is the P0300 (I have understood that this code maybe ON because the learning procedure is not done), but I erased that before doing the learning procedure.

... and about the gas, I`m using new gasoline, I changed all the fuel in the tank.

regards
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:39 AM   #21
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Sounds like it could be a clogged cat caused by secondary ignition failure.

Put a cap/rotor if applicable (no DIS)

Put a set of plug wires and plugs and get a converter test pipe.

I used to do these by the dozen as a Chevy tech.
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