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Old 01-13-2009, 08:34 PM   #1
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Intake/ Air Cleaner observations and thoughts... (?V6/V8?)

So I'm drolling all over this picture and a thought comes to mind (care of Autoblog):



I've been tossing around the idea of the GMPP CAI and was a little skeptical that aside from removing any restrictions due to the baffles and chambers hanging off the passenger's side of the intake tube, just before the throttle body (TB), and the little tube-like deal jutting out of the driver's side just in front of the TB, I though there was a chance the lower intake box/ air cleaner could have some restrictive baffles/ducts/air foils/etc. and possibly leave some power on the table. I mean, I was thinking I'd look and see if the aftermarket (AM) would come out with some sort of conical air filter in a semi-enclosed chamber that was sealed from the engine compartment heat. I was thinking this option because if there were and restrictions left in the lower intake box/ air cleaner that the GMPP CAI would leave a little power on the table due to it looking like the kit strickly replaces the air cleaner top and intake tube. Here is a pic' of the GMPP kit on the LS7 Camaro SEMA car:



Anyways, I got looking at the RS/SS at the Detriot Autoshow and think I see a huge opening in the lower air box, just behind the driver's side headlight. If I'm correct, it looks like cold air, going around the headlight and through that area of the grille might get picked up by the airbox and eliminate my concerns over whether-or-not there were any restrictions in the intake path that the GMPP CAI does not address/ eliminate. SO, the question I have is: Has anyone gotten a good close-up of the lower intake box area to confirm this opening I think I see? Obviously, I could just wait and see when we start getting cars in showrooms and you guys start receiving the cars you've ordered, but my curiosity is getting the better of what little patience I have. If that opening is there, and there isn't any funny business with restrictions in what the GMPP CAI kit doesn't replace, I'm sure I'll go that route. I've said before I love the polished tube (I'm not too big a fan of what looks like a chromed intake lid, but it isn't nearly a deal-breaker) and think I'd be definately sold on this kit. No worries about water ingestion, confidence in OEM engineered durability, quality, and fit and finish. Some of the AM kits dont' always seem to keep all these in mind when they design replacement/ upgrade parts, it seems to me.

I'm just curious as to what any of you have have spent time with the car has noticed in that particular area. Thanks for any input
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:43 PM   #2
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You are too advanced in your automotive knowledge for me to understand what you are asking. I hope to learn more mechanics in the future but for now all I know how to do is change oil, brakes and tune-up.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:53 PM   #3
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Personally I perfer the 3 walled intake systems, similar to the ones K&N produces. I prefer its sound and the fact that it allows more air from more places
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:58 PM   #4
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What he said lol
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:00 AM   #5
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So no one has noticed or looked at that area?...
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:24 PM   #6
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I understand what you're saying, radz282003, but I haven't seen any pictures of that area.

My idea with the intake is basically to get hood pins and remove the latch behind the SS mail slot. That would allow for a custom intake that is shorter and gets air in the same way that the Corvette does.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:20 AM   #7
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I understand what you're saying, radz282003, but I haven't seen any pictures of that area.

My idea with the intake is basically to get hood pins and remove the latch behind the SS mail slot. That would allow for a custom intake that is shorter and gets air in the same way that the Corvette does.
That's a great idea! Have you seen the 'Vette intake system from Vararam: http://www.vararam.com/competition.html These are great and I've read good reviews on their results and haven't seen much in the way of negative experiences. Even IF, for some reason, your idea couldn't work exactly, maybe someone will work on something like these guys make. Thanks for the input
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:06 PM   #8
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What may surprise you is that most GM vehicles come with a semi cold air setup factory. There is always a tiny plastic tube that leads down into the fender well to a slightly cooler air supply. The problem is the rest of the restriction in the system. The GMPP product will be excellent, but I assure you that it will leave some power out that other aftermarket intakes will achieve. That box is still choking the area around the filter, whether it has any extra baffles or impedances. That bare area behind the headlight is a perfect spot for a true cold air intake.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:51 PM   #9
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Cold Air

I'm pretty sure the Camaro draws air from within the fender. I noticed this in a pic somewhere. The ristriction IMO is the filter in the box.
A tube running directly into the fender well with an open element filter I believe would be the least restristive.
You may even be able to run the tube down to the lower grill for a ram air effect. Obviously this is yet to be determined.
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Old 01-16-2009, 12:04 AM   #10
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Once this is on the market Injen will surely have an intake available with an Amsoil filter
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:38 AM   #11
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Yeah; I noticed that my '02 had a sort of cold air setup from the factory. It was too bad, as you guys had pointed out, that the actual airbox and intake provided the restricitions. These were exactly what I had concerns about with the GMPP part (from what I can tell) only addressing what I observed. If there aren't restrictions in the airbox, I don't think I'll mind much, if at all, since as you've pointed out, there are already what looks like cold air induction (so-to-speak) from behind the headlight. I just think GMPP's air tube is so pretty though, LOL! I guess I have time to see what the aftermarket does to unleash the rest of the LS3/L99/LLT's power
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:11 AM   #12
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good comparison pics and good thread. The factory intake certainly doesn't look very restrictive... I may hold off on the GMPP CAI until some results are available
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:23 AM   #13
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Personally I perfer the 3 walled intake systems, similar to the ones K&N produces. I refer its sound and the fact that its allow more air from more places
K&N FIPK here for me once they are available ..

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Old 01-16-2009, 11:50 AM   #14
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That's a great idea! Have you seen the 'Vette intake system from Vararam: http://www.vararam.com/competition.html These are great and I've read good reviews on their results and haven't seen much in the way of negative experiences. Even IF, for some reason, your idea couldn't work exactly, maybe someone will work on something like these guys make. Thanks for the input
I had a vararam intake on my C5 vette (http://www.vararam.com/b2.html). It worked great. It has a cool design that mounts right into the vent areas between the headlights and the license bracket. (where the wire screens are on a Z06).You could literally hear it breathing from the front of the car, lol. I never had a problem with it and drove in heavy rain many times without any issues like some intakes can have. Of course I never drove it through standing water that would be high enough for the intake to suck up. That's the main thing that people end up doing and paying the price by getting water in their engines.
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Old 01-16-2009, 12:03 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
So I'm drolling all over this picture and a thought comes to mind (care of Autoblog):



I've been tossing around the idea of the GMPP CAI and was a little skeptical that aside from removing any restrictions due to the baffles and chambers hanging off the passenger's side of the intake tube, just before the throttle body (TB), and the little tube-like deal jutting out of the driver's side just in front of the TB, I though there was a chance the lower intake box/ air cleaner could have some restrictive baffles/ducts/air foils/etc. and possibly leave some power on the table. I mean, I was thinking I'd look and see if the aftermarket (AM) would come out with some sort of conical air filter in a semi-enclosed chamber that was sealed from the engine compartment heat. I was thinking this option because if there were and restrictions left in the lower intake box/ air cleaner that the GMPP CAI would leave a little power on the table due to it looking like the kit strickly replaces the air cleaner top and intake tube. Here is a pic' of the GMPP kit on the LS7 Camaro SEMA car:



Anyways, I got looking at the RS/SS at the Detriot Autoshow and think I see a huge opening in the lower air box, just behind the driver's side headlight. If I'm correct, it looks like cold air, going around the headlight and through that area of the grille might get picked up by the airbox and eliminate my concerns over whether-or-not there were any restrictions in the intake path that the GMPP CAI does not address/ eliminate. SO, the question I have is: Has anyone gotten a good close-up of the lower intake box area to confirm this opening I think I see? Obviously, I could just wait and see when we start getting cars in showrooms and you guys start receiving the cars you've ordered, but my curiosity is getting the better of what little patience I have. If that opening is there, and there isn't any funny business with restrictions in what the GMPP CAI kit doesn't replace, I'm sure I'll go that route. I've said before I love the polished tube (I'm not too big a fan of what looks like a chromed intake lid, but it isn't nearly a deal-breaker) and think I'd be definately sold on this kit. No worries about water ingestion, confidence in OEM engineered durability, quality, and fit and finish. Some of the AM kits dont' always seem to keep all these in mind when they design replacement/ upgrade parts, it seems to me.

I'm just curious as to what any of you have have spent time with the car has noticed in that particular area. Thanks for any input
I can follow exactly w hat you're asking. First I'll say that if the stock air box has a huge opening in the bottom of it, as it appears to, then there will be VERY little gained from any CAI kit. You'd be better off having a custom stainless steel pipe made to replace the black one going from the air box to the intake and call it a day. I built my own CAI on my 4Runner in this fashion and gained the same HP as an aftermarket kit costing 4x what it cost me to build my own.

I'll be able to determine more when I see one in person, but I suspect it'll be very easy to make a home made CAI that will look as good or better than an aftermarket system for 1/4 the price.

Here's the one I made for the 4Runner. Added about 10 RWHP on the dyno and this is just a 3.4L V6 motor.

Removed intake muffler and replaced with stainless tubing:


Opened front of air box behind head light. Added a boat deck plate in the event I needed to close it for off roading:


Dyno Result and this was Naturally Aspirated (before I added the SC) so now it's probably adding more than 10HP.


Good thinking ahead there man.
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:12 PM   #16
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I can follow exactly w hat you're asking. First I'll say that if the stock air box has a huge opening in the bottom of it, as it appears to, then there will be VERY little gained from any CAI kit. You'd be better off having a custom stainless steel pipe made to replace the black one going from the air box to the intake and call it a day. I built my own CAI on my 4Runner in this fashion and gained the same HP as an aftermarket kit costing 4x what it cost me to build my own.

I'll be able to determine more when I see one in person, but I suspect it'll be very easy to make a home made CAI that will look as good or better than an aftermarket system for 1/4 the price.

Here's the one I made for the 4Runner. Added about 10 RWHP on the dyno and this is just a 3.4L V6 motor.

Removed intake muffler and replaced with stainless tubing:


Opened front of air box behind head light. Added a boat deck plate in the event I needed to close it for off roading:


Dyno Result and this was Naturally Aspirated (before I added the SC) so now it's probably adding more than 10HP.


Good thinking ahead there man.
That's good stuff right there. Honestly, I had done something similar on my '93 4Runner. Shoot, I probably read a post by you or something, LOL. I pretty much followed exaclty what you do did - eliminated the chambers in the rubber tube with a steel exhaust tube, and cut a hole twice the size of my fist in the original opening of my lower airbox, where the intake "trumpet" was. I can't say that I have verified horsepower gains like you have, but that intake whales now and my butt tells me I picked-up a little. I'm considering something similar on my car when I get it - I just won't want it to look hacked; ya' know?

Thanks for the input though. More is ALWAYS welcome
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:55 PM   #17
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That's good stuff right there. Honestly, I had done something similar on my '93 4Runner. Shoot, I probably read a post by you or something, LOL. I pretty much followed exaclty what you do did - eliminated the chambers in the rubber tube with a steel exhaust tube, and cut a hole twice the size of my fist in the original opening of my lower airbox, where the intake "trumpet" was. I can't say that I have verified horsepower gains like you have, but that intake whales now and my butt tells me I picked-up a little. I'm considering something similar on my car when I get it - I just won't want it to look hacked; ya' know?

Thanks for the input though. More is ALWAYS welcome
I can't take credit for the original idea, that was a guy named Gadget, however I never implement anything that looks "hacked". I'm sure on the Camaro we can come up with something. The hardest part would be getting a 5" (?) diameter stainless steel "J" tube to go from the intake to the air box to eliminate the baffles.

I also tested K&N, Amsoil, and Stock air filters to find a negligible difference in their performance on this vehicle (2HP variance) which was well within the standard deviation of the dyno proving they weren't worth the money. Not sure how a big V8 would fare but you can bet I'll be testing them and reporting the results on my website.

Too many people jump on the aftermarket stuff without any clue what they're getting. On the 4Runner the K&N intake kit looses power over the stock system. The K&N filters also showed a HP loss power on my motorcycle as well as my buddy's GSXR 1000 as well.

Moral of the story, be smart with your cash folks.
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:34 PM   #18
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I can't take credit for the original idea, that was a guy named Gadget, however I never implement anything that looks "hacked". I'm sure on the Camaro we can come up with something. The hardest part would be getting a 5" (?) diameter stainless steel "J" tube to go from the intake to the air box to eliminate the baffles.

I also tested K&N, Amsoil, and Stock air filters to find a negligible difference in their performance on this vehicle (2HP variance) which was well within the standard deviation of the dyno proving they weren't worth the money. Not sure how a big V8 would fare but you can bet I'll be testing them and reporting the results on my website.

Too many people jump on the aftermarket stuff without any clue what they're getting. On the 4Runner the K&N intake kit looses power over the stock system. The K&N filters also showed a HP loss power on my motorcycle as well as my buddy's GSXR 1000 as well.

Moral of the story, be smart with your cash folks.
Exaclty; it doesn't look hacked at all. I'll be the first to admit it looks better than mine and that you can block it off off-road is a great addition too. I can't think of a more true statement off the top of my head. Like you're saying - do the research.
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:13 PM   #19
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I can't take credit for the original idea, that was a guy named Gadget, however I never implement anything that looks "hacked". I'm sure on the Camaro we can come up with something. The hardest part would be getting a 5" (?) diameter stainless steel "J" tube to go from the intake to the air box to eliminate the baffles.
5"? thats a little bigger than what you will need. unless it gradually narrows like a cone down to the throttle body. you dont need any tubing larger than your t/b. I would imagine its 3.5" or 4" on the camaro.


now as far as getting a J tube..... actually not that hard... if you want to spend the money for one straight from the aftermarket. you could do a 90* elbow right off the t/b then a straight tube that goes over to the air box. wont be one continuous piece tho. im sure the aftermarket will be making full CAI's available for $300-500.00 (if not more) as soon as the car hits the streets. but there will always be those who like to custom make things for themselves.

I have a friend pushing over 400hp to the wheels in his 97 LT1 camaro with a PVC intake that he spent about $12.00 on. he did splurge for a filter however, but it works. might not be polished chrome like some people want, but it gets results.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:08 PM   #20
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5"? thats a little bigger than what you will need. unless it gradually narrows like a cone down to the throttle body. you dont need any tubing larger than your t/b. I would imagine its 3.5" or 4" on the camaro.


now as far as getting a J tube..... actually not that hard... if you want to spend the money for one straight from the aftermarket. you could do a 90* elbow right off the t/b then a straight tube that goes over to the air box. wont be one continuous piece tho. im sure the aftermarket will be making full CAI's available for $300-500.00 (if not more) as soon as the car hits the streets. but there will always be those who like to custom make things for themselves.

I have a friend pushing over 400hp to the wheels in his 97 LT1 camaro with a PVC intake that he spent about $12.00 on. he did splurge for a filter however, but it works. might not be polished chrome like some people want, but it gets results.
Yeah, I have no idea how big that tube is, I was just basing my guess off the pictures in this thread, but that's an LS7 so....

A lot of guys used exhaust tubing to do what I did on my 4Runner. I used SS tubing because A it's prettier, and B won't rust (rust going into the intake = bad). There'll be a lot of stuff aftermarket for this car, we'll just have to wait and see how the prices fall out. I think I spent a grand total of $22 on the one I did for the 4Runner, then sold two extra pieces of the SS tubing for $10 each once I was done to other folks that liked it. So really I was out $2 and my time. That's how I roll.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:03 PM   #21
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Yeah, I have no idea how big that tube is, I was just basing my guess off the pictures in this thread, but that's an LS7 so....

A lot of guys used exhaust tubing to do what I did on my 4Runner. I used SS tubing because A it's prettier, and B won't rust (rust going into the intake = bad). There'll be a lot of stuff aftermarket for this car, we'll just have to wait and see how the prices fall out. I think I spent a grand total of $22 on the one I did for the 4Runner, then sold two extra pieces of the SS tubing for $10 each once I was done to other folks that liked it. So really I was out $2 and my time. That's how I roll.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:25 PM   #22
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I prefer a molded plastic tubing from filter element to the throttle body. Steel tubing is known to heat up the air charge coming into the engine (absorbing heat from the engine) and the plastic dissipates heat better. If you're doing it on the cheap though, its hard to beat that piece together Spectre piping from AutoZone.
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:15 PM   #23
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I prefer a molded plastic tubing from filter element to the throttle body. Steel tubing is known to heat up the air charge coming into the engine (absorbing heat from the engine) and the plastic dissipates heat better. If you're doing it on the cheap though, its hard to beat that piece together Spectre piping from AutoZone.
I studied physics in college, and you'd be hard pressed to see ANY difference in air temperature between plastic or steel. The air is just moving way too fast to pick up any amount of heat that would make a difference in power.

This can be proven by watching intake air temperatures on the OBDII system.
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
I prefer a molded plastic tubing from filter element to the throttle body. Steel tubing is known to heat up the air charge coming into the engine (absorbing heat from the engine) and the plastic dissipates heat better. If you're doing it on the cheap though, its hard to beat that piece together Spectre piping from AutoZone.
yes and no. if you are driving an LT1 that can fry eggs on the cast iron intake manifold 3 hours after you shut the car off its one thing, but i wouldnt be too concerned about air temps between a plastic vs metal intake tubing.

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I studied physics in college, and you'd be hard pressed to see ANY difference in air temperature between plastic or steel. The air is just moving way too fast to pick up any amount of heat that would make a difference in power.

This can be proven by watching intake air temperatures on the OBDII system.

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Old 01-23-2009, 07:26 PM   #25
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Air picks up surrounding temperatures pretty quickly.
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