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5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions General 5th generation Camaro topics not covered by other subforums.

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Old 07-17-2007, 04:41 PM   #51
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I posted this on a different site about my opinion on both cars. Probably most of you know all the info about the camaro but I learned a few things about the Challenger.


"The 6.1 is going to be offered in the regular challenger, but the 6.4 will be in the "super sport" challenger. I figured the Challenger is on the same platform as the SRT-8 so that it would have similar weight "4,000lbs". The Camaro weight because it is using the zeta platform , the same as the commodore, that weighs around 3800lbs and it will more than likely have the ls3 out of the 08 vette that puts out 430hp since the ls2 is dead.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/2008-dodge-challenger.htm
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/21/t...r-super-stock/

The last is very impressive, but I dont see them selling that for the 30k that the price has been rumored to be, or having that traction setup. I could see them charging 30k for one with a 6.1 in it however.

And it looks like the Super sport and GT500 may have a rival after all
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=826
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121028
An excerpt from the last article.
"The other reason the motorheads at GMPP built this beast is because the coming '09 Camaro will probably have an SS edition available, which will be powered by this same engine right off the showroom floor."

The final Camaro engines are purely speculation at this point, supercharged or LS7 either way im not sure I see it happening but who knows, GM is going to need a car to compete with the GT500 and Challenger Super Sport.

Everyone has their own opinions and thats how it should be, those are mine judging by the facts I have been reading these past two months."
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:49 PM   #52
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I see the camaro being a mid to MAYBE low 12 car and the challenger being a high 12 low 13 second car. Its heavier and has less hp
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:51 PM   #53
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The link referring to an LS7 Camaro and "the reason they built this thing..." is a load of crap. Scott Settlemire has already dismissed that on another forum.

SO, don't worry about that...

I did find the reference to the Commodore interesting. I hadn't thought to use it as a wieght reference. So, I did a little digging at www.holden.com.au/ and here @ camaro5...here's what I found and concluded.

Specs..................Holden Commodore SS............Chevrolet Camaro

Wieght.................(with auto) 3935 lbs...................what we're discussing

Length.................192.6 inches............................. 186.2 inches

Width...................74.7 inches.............................. 79 inches

Hieght..................58.1 inches.............................. 53 inches


So...If we create cubic volumes for each of these cars, and then divide it by the Commodores wieght, then multiply it by the Camaro's "volume". We could get an educated guess as to wieght. Oh, and keep in mind the Commodore is a Sedan, and the Camaro is a coupe.

Holden "volume" = 835897. Holden's lbs. per "volume" unit = .0047075

Camaro "volume" = 779619. Guestimated Camaro's wieght = 3670 lbs.!!!!

Now keep in mind, it's also a coupe ....


NOTE: I chose to use the Commodore SS, because it uses the same 367 hp engine in the G8, and it isn't the Luxury side of the Commodore. There is a SS V car trim for the car, but I beleive that there is a lot of extra "stuff" in there. Besides the wieght difference was only, 44 lbs. or something like that. But the price difference was somewhere in the nieghborhood of 7,000+ USD...!!!
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:49 PM   #54
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How do you like the 06?

Here is my 2000 Z71 hard at work at the beach

My old one was a '99 Z-71...looked the same as yours except mine was all Dark Carmine...no two tone....and no topper on the back, just a dark gray spray in bedliner.

But, with our two kids getting bigger and the third one on the way (at the time) it was time to upgrade...so, we traded in the '99 (with only 38K on it) for the '06 Crew Cab...it's Graphite Blue, Z-71, with the lighter gray interior. I loved my old one....I like the current one even more. It only has 20 more horses, gets about 1.5-2 mpg more, feels more comfortable, and I have a sunroof in this one. The dash is a little nicer (same as my '03 Tahoe). There are a couple things missing that I wish it had. The adjustable pedals...not a big deal for me, but they really help my wife...we have them in the Tahoe. Also, the seats don't go back to their respective positions when the button on the fob is pressed (like the Tahoe does), you actually have to press the button on the door panel.

Minor things aside, the truck is real nice. I've driven the current Fords and ridden in the current Dodges and I like my Chevy far better. The Dodge with the Hemi has more power, but I'm not sure it's any faster than mine and it gets far worse mileage.

I wouldn't trade mine in on any of the other brands....I sort of wish I had waited for the '07 Sierra, but I got a great deal on this one and was able to pay cash for it. That wouldn't have happened with an '07.
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Old 07-17-2007, 09:33 PM   #55
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If I ever needed a truck, I would definitly get a Silverado...hands down.
It has as much power, if not more, than a Ford. But it's smaller (relatively), and gets better mileage. It's much more comfortable than the Dodge's (they feel like your driving a semi!)

And, the Hemi's are over-rated.

Silverado all the way!!! "This is our country!"
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:25 PM   #56
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I see the camaro being a mid to MAYBE low 12 car and the challenger being a high 12 low 13 second car. Its heavier and has less hp
If the Camaro is going to be a mid to low 12 second car, don't expect the price to be around 30K, it would be closer to 40k. I think they will keep the camaro at least 3/4 second behind the base Corvette, If the Camaro was a 30K car running just a few tenth off of the vette, hmm Corvette sales will decline. I am expecting it to be high 12's -13.0' area it will be slightly faster than the last years F-Body with way more Bling Factor...

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If I ever needed a truck, I would definitly get a Silverado...hands down.
It has as much power, if not more, than a Ford. But it's smaller (relatively), and gets better mileage. It's much more comfortable than the Dodge's (they feel like your driving a semi!)

And, the Hemi's are over-rated.

Silverado all the way!!! "This is our country!"
You live in New York and never needed a truck?? dam you don't get out much in the winter do you... LOL
1000% on the Overated Hemi, I am not impressed with then at all.
The ram is so rough I get whiplash after riding in it. Fords F250 is a nice truck, My Father in law has one in diesel, can pull a house off it's foundation.

But My Silverado is smooth, good on Gas (I get 19mpg Average) it's a 5300 and runs great, I have over 125,000 miles.
oh and in that beach trip, I pulled out 2 fords and a dodge that were stuck in the sand on the Outer Banks, NC. That was cool, because one of the fords had that kid pissing on a BowTie and I have LT MS street tires, he even said there was no way I could pull him out with my "piss o crap", I did first try too. (He Pissed his Pants) you Fanboys are a tool
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:14 PM   #57
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I, never needed a truck, I've got relatives who let me borrow their (cough) Ford(cough), if I needed to do some heavy lifting. But I have a FWD Minivan (currently) and I'm a really, really, really good Winter Driver, thanks to the "New York" Factor...
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Old 07-18-2007, 10:13 PM   #58
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:27 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by 2K05GT View Post
If the Camaro is going to be a mid to low 12 second car, don't expect the price to be around 30K, it would be closer to 40k. I think they will keep the camaro at least 3/4 second behind the base Corvette, If the Camaro was a 30K car running just a few tenth off of the vette, hmm Corvette sales will decline. I am expecting it to be high 12's -13.0' area it will be slightly faster than the last years F-Body with way more Bling Factor...
But the GTOs were running high 12's already. I dont see them coming out with the new camaro, it having 30 more hp than the GTO and running the same 1/4 mile times... I just cant see GM making their new baby = to the times of the old GTO
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:59 PM   #60
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Quote:
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But the GTOs were running high 12's already. I dont see them coming out with the new camaro, it having 30 more hp than the GTO and running the same 1/4 mile times... I just cant see GM making their new baby = to the times of the old GTO
I have a point to add to this GTO v. Camaro comparison.

Look at the GTO I built, (this info right off of the pontiac website).
Quote:
Selected Style: Coupe

STANDARD:
Audio system: Blaupunkt, 200-watt, includes in-dash six-disc CD changer and 10 speakers
Engine, 6.0L V8 SFI aluminum, (400 HP [297.9 kW] @ 5200 rpm, 400 lb.-ft. [546.7 N-m] @ 4000 rpm)
Drive type: rear-wheel drive with fully independent rear suspension
Dual exhaust and hood scoops
Performance Brake Package with four wheel disc ABS
2 + 2 leather sport bucket seating
Sport tuned suspension system
Traction Control
Transmission: four-speed automatic, electronically controlled with overdrive
Colors: Modify
Exterior: Cyclone Gray Metallic
Interior: Black Leather
Seat Type: Seats, front and rear sport bucket, Leather

OPTIONS
Emissions override, California, Massachusetts or New York (for vehicles ordered by dealers in states of California, Massachusetts or New York with Federal emissions)……………………..No Charge
Gas guzzler tax $1,300.00
Transmission, , 4-speed automatic, electronically controlled with overdrive No Charge
Pricing:
Base MSRP*: $33,290.00
Options Total: $0.00
Total MSRP*: Estimate Payment $33,290.00
Subtract the $1300 gas guzzler tax - we KNOW the Camaro won't be dealing with that.

So we're at about $32,000, now.

Now, take into consideration that the GTO was a (generally speaking) limited-run Car.

I think Camaro can be easily priced below 30,000... Off topic, a little, but - I thought it was worth putting in since we were comparing the 2.

BTW, Pontiac tends to be a little more pricey than chevy anyways...

Oh, and I completely agree with the above by Jester.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:57 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
I have a point to add to this GTO v. Camaro comparison.

Look at the GTO I built, (this info right off of the pontiac website).


Subtract the $1300 gas guzzler tax - we KNOW the Camaro won't be dealing with that.

So we're at about $32,000, now.

Now, take into consideration that the GTO was a (generally speaking) limited-run Car.

I think Camaro can be easily priced below 30,000... Off topic, a little, but - I thought it was worth putting in since we were comparing the 2.

BTW, Pontiac tends to be a little more pricey than chevy anyways...

Oh, and I completely agree with the above by Jester.
I agree, the GTO was brought over from Australia in limited numbers. With so many coming out of Canada, the General can afford a lower profit per car since they're making so many more Camaros than GTOs. Plus, the GTO wasnt a no frills car, it had quite a bit of luxury options on it. I just hope that GM wont obligate you to load up your car with options in order to get the biggest engine. I just want a lightly or no optioned car with the biggest engine and a 6 speed. Whether by a special package (1LE or similar) or just by keeping most of the features optional.
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:10 PM   #62
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read the name, in my opinion chevy's are absolutely the most overated vehicles ever. i get so sick of hearing there the best there the greatest, sure gm outsells everthing the must have 500 different brands, but that doesnt mean there the best, dodge and ford have what 10 or 11. and they still almost outsell gm, truck wise ford kicks butt, car wise dodge and overall dodge. my mom barely knows the difference between a truck and a car and her and my dad both have owned chevy's and other gm's, and we didnt have anything but problems, broken cd players, pistons frying, rattling, car shutting off all of the sudden, ruff ride, faulty buttons, and eventually the whole motor blowing, every gm we have ever owned the motor has blown, and all of them were brand new, all blew up within the period of two months after getting the vehicle, my mom always goes back to dodge, and so does my dad, we have never had any problems with fords or dodges, chevy is so high on a pedistol they just throw a vehicle together and expect it to sell, they have no commitment, the motors are junk, and so is the whole vehicle, and the challenger will stomp the camaro, they did in the old days and will again, so chevy lovers dont hate appreciate, and get off of your high horse and realize there is other better vehicles out there and maybe you will realize chevys aint all that, there just a big heap of metal with a cheap engine, and crappy parts. why do you think chevy's are cheaper junky cheaper parts.

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Old 07-22-2007, 10:25 AM   #63
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That was awesome upstaging the challenger from the Get Go... not to mention debuting the Transformers movie...

Dodge fan should be banned, being the first post. that was a bit ridiculous.
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:36 PM   #64
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I dont see the point to come onto a board, regardless of what it is, with the intention of making inflammatory remarks.

Ironically, you mentioned cars shutting off all the time (stalling) on Chevy's. Our Chevy's never had that problem, but our Jeep Commander does and Chrysler refused to fix it, although it is widely reported by many owners. They did issue a recall for the same problem from Dodges and Jeep Wranglers recently.

The Chevrolet LS engine has been on the list of Best Engines for years and the LS7 recently won the international Best Motorsports Engine, beating out every other engine. This was not just an American competition, it was based in Germany.

If your parents blew up any engine within two months of buying it, then they are obviously doing something wrong. Not putting in oil, maybe? There have never been widespread reports of this happening, so your family is alone is this problem.

As for quality, pick up a copy of JD Power's recently Quality Ratings. Chevrolet beats Dodge in every single category save for a few in which it tied. This is not from long ago, it is 2007.

I don't believe that GM is on any pedestal, they have very openly admitted that their company needs to change it's operations and that there are problems to be fixed. Bob Lutz has been very vocal in listening to the community to turn around GM.

As for Chrysler, they have been reluctant to issue recalls for problems that very obviously should be recalled. If anyone will remember the WJ Grand Cherokee (introduced in 1999). We had a '99 with 4wd. The transfer case would slip in and out of neutral. Stories made it into the news. The one that stuck in my mind was a man being pinned up against a garage wall because of the violent leaps and jumps that the problematic transfer case caused. I experienced them during the year we had ours. DaimlerChrysler would not fix the problem, not because it did not fit the outline of something that should be recalled (it did), but because it would cost money.

I'm not saying that Mopar is bad or that GM is perfect. They both have problems, but I do not see Chrysler being on a whole separate tier above GM.

Btw, the Ford truck best selling title is reached by combining the Ford F-150 and the Super Duty trucks, which are really two completely different platforms. Chevrolet does not include the identical GMC trucks in its sales figures. If it did, it would hold the title of best seller. Simply because of the badge, it can't. And simply because of Ford's badge, it can combine two different trucks into one large sales figure.
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Old 07-22-2007, 09:40 PM   #65
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I dont see the point to come onto a board, regardless of what it is, with the intention of making inflammatory remarks.

Ironically, you mentioned cars shutting off all the time (stalling) on Chevy's. Our Chevy's never had that problem, but our Jeep Commander does and Chrysler refused to fix it, although it is widely reported by many owners. They did issue a recall for the same problem from Dodges and Jeep Wranglers recently.

The Chevrolet LS engine has been on the list of Best Engines for years and the LS7 recently won the international Best Motorsports Engine, beating out every other engine. This was not just an American competition, it was based in Germany.

If your parents blew up any engine within two months of buying it, then they are obviously doing something wrong. Not putting in oil, maybe? There have never been widespread reports of this happening, so your family is alone is this problem.

As for quality, pick up a copy of JD Power's recently Quality Ratings. Chevrolet beats Dodge in every single category save for a few in which it tied. This is not from long ago, it is 2007.

I don't believe that GM is on any pedestal, they have very openly admitted that their company needs to change it's operations and that there are problems to be fixed. Bob Lutz has been very vocal in listening to the community to turn around GM.

As for Chrysler, they have been reluctant to issue recalls for problems that very obviously should be recalled. If anyone will remember the WJ Grand Cherokee (introduced in 1999). We had a '99 with 4wd. The transfer case would slip in and out of neutral. Stories made it into the news. The one that stuck in my mind was a man being pinned up against a garage wall because of the violent leaps and jumps that the problematic transfer case caused. I experienced them during the year we had ours. DaimlerChrysler would not fix the problem, not because it did not fit the outline of something that should be recalled (it did), but because it would cost money.

I'm not saying that Mopar is bad or that GM is perfect. They both have problems, but I do not see Chrysler being on a whole separate tier above GM.

Btw, the Ford truck best selling title is reached by combining the Ford F-150 and the Super Duty trucks, which are really two completely different platforms. Chevrolet does not include the identical GMC trucks in its sales figures. If it did, it would hold the title of best seller. Simply because of the badge, it can't. And simply because of Ford's badge, it can combine two different trucks into one large sales figure.
Great post Matt.
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Old 07-22-2007, 11:52 PM   #66
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Just FYI, guys...he was a troll and was dealt w/ accordingly. But, we had some great responses from all the memebers and the posts stayed. Don't let folks like this get under your skin. Getting under your skin and pissing you off is their ultimate goal. Don't let it happen.

I also agree that was a well put together post.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:47 AM   #67
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He was banned shortly after his post, he’s never coming back…
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:56 AM   #68
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He was banned shortly after his post, he’s never coming back…
That he was. Forgot to read his status under his name.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:06 PM   #69
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I love doing that by accident. Talking to a banned..."ghost" I guess.
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Old 07-31-2007, 11:37 AM   #70
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I like the Challenger,too. But I think it will be WAY to HEAVY by the time they get through with it.
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:29 PM   #71
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Last I heard its going to well over 4000lbs.Something like 4200 lbs.So if the camaro comes in about 3600lbs or so,The challenger wouldnt be much competition in a heads up comparsion to the camaro.
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Old 07-31-2007, 03:03 PM   #72
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i no i cant wait to see the commercials for all the new cars
Yeah that would be great considering I don't ever remember seeing one ever before The Camaro is and always has been an awesome car but hopefully this time around GM will realize they also need to promote it more than just at the auto shows. I hope they have some really great commercials for the 5th gen's debut.
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Old 07-31-2007, 09:56 PM   #73
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No offense to Challengers...but I never did consider them in the same league as the Camaro. It was always Camaro vs. Mustang. Five pages of posts and no one once has challenged the assertion that Camaro and Challengers were rivals back in the day?

Contemporaries? Yes. Rivals? I'm not so sure.

Charger's a little more believable as a "rival" - my Dad told a great story about someone bringing a cherry '69 Charger to the dirt track in his town right off the dealer lot and how he opened it up on backstretch and just went monster. It made him a Dodge man for life.

And besides - didn't Daisy Duke drive a Challenger? C'mon. That writer didn't know what he was writing about.

Too bad the modern Challenger looks better and truer to its original than the Charger.

Make mine Camaro, please.
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Old 07-31-2007, 11:23 PM   #74
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No offense to Challengers...but I never did consider them in the same league as the Camaro. It was always Camaro vs. Mustang. Five pages of posts and no one once has challenged the assertion that Camaro and Challengers were rivals back in the day?

Contemporaries? Yes. Rivals? I'm not so sure.

Charger's a little more believable as a "rival" - my Dad told a great story about someone bringing a cherry '69 Charger to the dirt track in his town right off the dealer lot and how he opened it up on backstretch and just went monster. It made him a Dodge man for life.

And besides - didn't Daisy Duke drive a Challenger? C'mon. That writer didn't know what he was writing about.

Too bad the modern Challenger looks better and truer to its original than the Charger.

Make mine Camaro, please.
The Challenger was more of a pony car than the Charger. The Charger was quite a bit larger, a muscle car. The most likely reason that the Challenger/Cuda aren't often thought of as rivals is because they were a late comer to the party. The first one's appeared in 1970, 3 years after the Camaro and nearly 6 years after the Mustang. The modern Challenger does look like a separate breed though. Limited production and heavy.
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Old 08-01-2007, 12:21 AM   #75
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Well, it's a Dodge - they're the Fat company.

I'd consider them both a rivals, just not nearly as "into it" as the Mustang.
The Current Charger might be better competition for the new RWD Impala, though.
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