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Suspension / Brakes / Chassis All suspension, brakes and chassis discussions.

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Old 12-13-2010, 03:29 PM   #1
Brian@AirLift
 
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Air Lift-Back On Camaro5!

Hey guys-

Some of you may have noticed our banner ad now flying proudly on Camaro5! We have signed up as an official vendor and plan on making this forum a great place for you to learn about air suspension as well as suspension tuning in general.

I posted a couple of months ago but the post was deleted until we signed on as a vendor/sponsor. Now that we have, I will re-post my introduction for those that may have missed it:

As many of you know, we offer a complete air suspension package for your 2010 Camaro. (see this thread for more info: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64867)
That said, I am NOT in the sales department, but rather am the Engineering Project Manager for the Lifestyle and Performance division of Air Lift. My mission here is to educate people about the value of air suspension and to dispel the myths that seem to exist about how air suspension rides, handles and lasts.

Since I will be bringing the technical side to this forum, my personal background may be of interest for those technically minded. I have a BSME from University of Detroit and spent 11 years working for Chrysler, 9 of them as a Vehicle Dynamics Engineer. A stint with Firestone followed, engineering a high-performance oriented air suspension system called Praxis for sport compacts. Then on my own doing consulting and race engineering. Now I find myself with Air Lift as we continue to expand and improve our automotive products.

Racing has always been my passion and I have been an SCCA road racer since 1988. I ventured into ProRally for 5 years, winning a national championship along the way. I have raced shifter karts and Lemons cars, autocrossed and hillclimbed…and tracked many different makes and models. I have also worked as a race engineer in World Challenge, Mustang Challenge (sorry about THAT one) and Continental Tire Challenge as well as SCCA and NASA club stuff. In other words, I have been around a while and have a few grey hairs to prove it!

Sheesh. Enough about me, that is not the point. Just wanted to put some info out there to help tell the story that Air Lift is serious about making their suspensions ride and handle with the best.

To that end, I wanted to start off the discussion by sharing with you a video made during the final validation of our 2010 Camaro kit.





We typically use Gingerman Raceway as our test bed and we go out with our data system installed. We run a back to back comparison with the OEM suspension vs. our air suspension (only struts and air over shocks) on the same car, on the same day, within 1 hour of each other for the best results and minimized track effects. On this day, we were 1 second faster on our suspension than the stock Camaro suspension. This is the same car that ran the Silver State Challenge in the post mentioned above. All stock except for a cold air kit, muffler delete and a slight tweek to the automatic transmission calibration. Hope you enjoy and keep us in mind as you choose your aftermarket suspension solution!



Last edited by Brian@AirLift; 12-13-2010 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:09 PM   #2
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Awesome video. Almost no body roll in the corners. I've been waiting for air ride tech like this
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:05 PM   #3
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Awesome video. Almost no body roll in the corners. I've been waiting for air ride tech like this
Glad you picked up on that omegaman! We worked hard on properly matching the damping with the progressive springs and it paid off with a very balanced chassis. It has enough roll stiffness to decrease total roll angle and the increased roll damping slows the roll rate so the car doesn't feel sloppy. And it takes a set sooner, which is handy on a racetrack!
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:00 PM   #4
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Awesome!
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Old 12-14-2010, 03:13 PM   #5
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Great stuff!
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Old 12-14-2010, 08:13 PM   #6
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Very nice BV. Let's start seeing some pics of guys with the kits installed!!!
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Old 12-14-2010, 08:29 PM   #7
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Old 12-14-2010, 08:34 PM   #8
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I got a question that hasnt been answered on any forum I have posted on yet.

What is the proper way to set up a complete air ride system?

Line size valves compressors etc?
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:34 PM   #9
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I will be posting pics as soon as I can get it on my car, wich won't be for a little while yet:(

Anymore pics of that white camaro?? Looks killer!!
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:58 PM   #10
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Ed-

That is a great question but one that you have more influence on than anybody!

"Proper" really is whatever the solution is that meets your objectives. Let me start with a few questions:

1. Do you plan on messing with the ride height a lot, like while cruising down a boulevard laying it out at every stop light?
2. How fast do you want it to go up and down?
3. Is accuracy of ride height a desire of yours with every change?
4. How much room do you have for air tank(s)?
5. What kind of user interface do you want: fancy digital or simple switch?
6. Is easy installation a priority or are you a complete build it your self type?
7. Is total system weight a concern?
8. Are aesthetics a priority?

Now let's provide some choices:
1. If you go up and down a lot, you want as big a tank and maybe multiple compressors so that you always have air to recover back to ride height. Otherwise, a single compressor and 2-2gal. tanks fits nicely in the spare tire well.

2. If you want the thing to rocket up and down fast, then 3/8" line is your choice. I find 1/4" my favorite as it is still fast enough, but not jarring. and the line is MUCH easier to run in the car.

3. With Fast up and down is much harder to control any pre-set ride height. It is too easy to blow past desired pressure or height target with a very fast lift or drop.

4. If you don't care that the trunk is full of tanks, then you can have a large reservoir and play all day with your height!:updown:

5. We offer the Autopilot and VERY soon, the Autopilot V2 which has a sweet new digital UI and integrated ECU/Manifold/Valves/presssure sensors in a package about the size of a brick and has 3 wire hook up. If you run manual valves, you have parts that look dated and require much more knowledge of wiring and plumbing, although some guys make that stuff look like art!

6. See above.

7. If lowest weight is your game, we have a manual paddle valve option that has plastic paddle valves, 2 gauges, single compressor and 2 or 5 gallon tank. Nobody is lighter. If weight is not a concern, then go nuts!

8. See number 5...

So you see, honestly answering these questions and reviewing your options will lead you down the road to YOUR proper set-up.

Hope that helps!
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Old 12-14-2010, 10:30 PM   #11
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Some what does, I currently have a setup on my truck. Piddle valves for each bag which is just on the rear for the moment. But I guess what I am trying to ask is what is the right way to have it set up. safety and ride etc. I seem to have a fitting leaking so the back of the truck drops after a couple of days. SO now when i get back from korea I have to find the leak which i wasnt able to find when i was home last. But I have heard of different setups and it hasnt really told me if my setup is right or wrong or otherwise.
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Old 12-14-2010, 10:59 PM   #12
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There really is no "right or wrong" setup. Its all in what you want to do. A leak really has nothing to do with the way its set up but the quality of installation. A pushlock fitting can leak just by the line not being cut straight enough.

That being said, I say 1/2" D.O.T. brake line, 1/2" ASCO electric valves, two VIAR 480s, and a 5 gallon tank, cut it up and lay body!!! But... Thats just me.
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:23 PM   #13
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how does that camaro stay at 2k rpms throughout the entire speedometer!
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:50 AM   #14
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I'd say someone had a glitch in that portion of the data-logging system
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Iansane View Post
I'd say someone had a glitch in that portion of the data-logging system

Yes, you caught me there! User error on the new data system... I promise never to do it again
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:49 PM   #16
Brian@AirLift
 
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After seeing the fifth gen on hydraulics....I have to post another video of what you can do on AIR that I would never attempt on hydros!!

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Old 12-15-2010, 04:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaSSt Off View Post
There really is no "right or wrong" setup. Its all in what you want to do. A leak really has nothing to do with the way its set up but the quality of installation. A pushlock fitting can leak just by the line not being cut straight enough.

That being said, I say 1/2" D.O.T. brake line, 1/2" ASCO electric valves, two VIAR 480s, and a 5 gallon tank, cut it up and lay body!!! But... Thats just me.
I guess my point is no one has a right way to do air bags.
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:19 PM   #18
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I would say the right way would then be to take your time doing the install. There really is no proper way, just what you consider the best method.

I have been installing air on cars for almost 11 years now. I have my preferable methods. I like to run the line in the car, instead of outside of the car. I always recommend .25" line. if there are any moving objects around the line will it harm the line? If the line is mounted to a moving part of the suspension like the bottom of the strut is there enough slack to work with the vertical movement as well as full droop. Same with if steering is involved. Always make sure there is nothing around the bag to damage it. I always use teflon tape. I religiously wrap all fittings 6 times. We all have our right way.

After all this I guess the real right way would be, what do you think the factory would have done. If you have any questions you can email me at jjenson@airliftcompany.com,
or fire away on here. Not sure if any of my post even helped out. This is just an odd question. You could ask 10 different techs how to install a strut and get 10 different answers that lead to the same thing.

My easiest answer to this question is how do you think the factory would have done it? You see the slack in the brake lines for all the suspension movement. How its ran under the car. There are grommets under the car practically everywhere. I am not a fan of drilling holes into new vehicles. I always find grommets in safe places to run the line into the cabin and then to the management system. Try to keep the install factory clean, like it was meant to be there when it left the lot, and it will last you a lifetime.
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:21 PM   #19
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I will get some more pics for you of the white car rich dude.
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:57 PM   #20
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Sorry off topic but what is the name of the hood on the white camaro
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:59 PM   #21
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I will get some more pics for you of the white car rich dude.
Awesome!! Thanks Jesse?

Any updates and install pics of the new controller??
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:01 PM   #22
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Who has the best prices on this system?
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:06 AM   #23
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Air systems are cool but the one fact that people forget is weight of the additional items ie tank, pumps, and all the line needed. If it wasnt for all the miscellaneous items needed for air ride I might get it.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:46 AM   #24
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Is an extra 20lbs of weight that big an issue on an already 4000lb vehicle. Hate to say it, but many drivers concerned about vehicle weight savings need only to look in the mirror.... thanks McDonalds dollar menu
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Cully View Post
Who has the best prices on this system?

Try Victory Racing. Tell Eric I sent you!

Brian
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