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View Poll Results: Your guess for the Z28 LSA HP rating
Less than 556 HP 95 13.63%
556 HP 159 22.81%
More than 556 HP 386 55.38%
We don't even know if the LSA is going to be in the Z28! Stupid question! 57 8.18%
Voters: 697. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-07-2011, 09:34 AM   #86
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You guys need to look at the history of chevy. You're not going to get it all, the 1st year out. Then there will be nothing to sell the following year.

So, look for a 100hp jump from the standard V8 for the Z28. In a year or 2 they'll up the hp some more.

The Corvette will be dropped in a couple of years and the Camaro will then be pulled out of Canada and will finally become American Made, where the Corvette was once built.

Not exactly what I want to see happen but my crystal ball is pretty accurate.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:56 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by bobmac427 View Post
You guys need to look at the history of chevy. You're not going to get it all, the 1st year out. Then there will be nothing to sell the following year.

So, look for a 100hp jump from the standard V8 for the Z28. In a year or 2 they'll up the hp some more.

The Corvette will be dropped in a couple of years and the Camaro will then be pulled out of Canada and will finally become American Made, where the Corvette was once built.

Not exactly what I want to see happen but my crystal ball is pretty accurate.


You need to take that crystal ball in for service.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:07 AM   #88
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You need to take that crystal ball in for service.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:14 AM   #89
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525 HP.......
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:50 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by bobmac427 View Post
You guys need to look at the history of chevy. You're not going to get it all, the 1st year out. Then there will be nothing to sell the following year.

So, look for a 100hp jump from the standard V8 for the Z28. In a year or 2 they'll up the hp some more.

The Corvette will be dropped in a couple of years and the Camaro will then be pulled out of Canada and will finally become American Made, where the Corvette was once built.

Not exactly what I want to see happen but my crystal ball is pretty accurate.
Considering that the C7 Vette is due out in a couple of years (and it should be a short lived place holder model) and they are already working on the C8 Vette, perhaps your crystal ball needs a good cleaning so you can see the future better.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:18 PM   #91
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GM is NOT going to give the new Z/28 more substantially power than the CTS-V for $12,000 less. It's just not going to happen.

People need to use the brains God gave them and look into past performance cars to find the answer to this question. The new engine is most likely going to be the LSA, and it will only make more power than the 556 HP the CTS-V has, if the intake and exhaust are slightly more free-flowing. I would guess a 10 HP bump to approximately 566 HP.

GM has absolutely no reason to push the limits of the motor more than they already have (and for less money, even).

This new Z/28 doesn't need 600 or 800 HP to be competitive and beat the GT500 performance numbers. It just needs high quality, wide, and sticky tires (read: not Goodyear F1s) and a great suspension setup for the roadcourse.

it gave the SS 424 same than a corvette in a ls3 for 20,000 less oh yes i say around 600. Chevy didn't come to compete with ford they came here to bury them
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:25 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by jose1003 View Post
it gave the SS 424 same than a corvette in a ls3 for 20,000 less oh yes i say around 600. Chevy didn't come to compete with ford they came here to bury them
If they dont they might as well pull out all the stops for the Camaro. The GT500 has been a known element for 4-5 years now in both forms..if the Z28 didnt do it better then that would be pathetic.

The LS3 in the Camaro produces less power than the same LS3 in the Corvette.

My guess is 565ish HP.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:45 PM   #93
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Ford will just have to figure out how to put 2 superchargers on the GT500!
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:46 PM   #94
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Even if GM did keep the Z/28's output under that of the CTS-V by restricting airflow, it just means you'll be able to rework the intake/exhaust and really open it up.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:59 PM   #95
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Ford will just have to figure out how to put 2 superchargers on the GT500!
My guess is a twin-turbo 5.0.

If they do that..hello 650 HP.
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:15 PM   #96
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Between 580-600 horse, IMO.

I don't really believe GM is going with power between SS and CTS-V. I see many photos with the GT500 in prototype testing, therefore I'm thinking that is the target. Having said that, in order to be competitive now, I believe Z28 has to at least match the GT500 where it currently is. However, I believe the GT500 is going to get a bump by 2012, so I think GM will try to look ahead, bump it closer to ZR1, so it's not going to see a huge spread, if any, should it be a significant increase from the serpent. It has to make up for the weight, which I believe will fall in between SS coupe and convert', so I'm a little torn on how to propose it will get there.

Since I've read CTS-V's exhaust is quite conservative, and it being a luxury car, I believe their are restrictions that can be relaxed for Z28, resulting in a small bump from LSA level. It appears the intake and exhaust systems might be a little less restrictive when the V6 goes from CTS to CAMARO, so that's another little bit of support to me. In addition, the quad tips suggest dual-mode exhaust, like those featured on the Y-Bodies; another opportunity for a bit more power. It certainly sounded better in those videos at the 'Ring!

A new upper intake plenum suggests to me there's a little more development between LSA and LS9. Because the upper plenum doesn't appear to be as flat as LS9, maybe there is a little less restriction, so perhap we could see a 2300 running 1900 psi levels (10.5 to 9.0, respectively) and make the power I'm suggesting.

It'd be nice to see an upgrade to the short block, for the pistongs and rods. I don't think Ti rods are necessary, but it'd be nice to see the forged slugs from LS9 carry over, and maybe some forged H-beam rods from the GMPP catalog. I'd like to see LS9's cam come over, too, since it doesn't have to be conservative, like one would expect in a luxury vehicle, like CTS-V. It'd be nice to be able to grow, safely, to 600-650 RWHP, like the GT500 can (and more...), but I can't complain, too much, knowing that if GM releases a 600 horse' Z28, it can't be pushed to 700 horse' with a little pulley, CAI, and exhaust upgrading/tuning.

I'm just crossing my fingers the chassis tuning will match the power in terms of performance. I'm sure we're going to be adding weight, so I hope GM can find a way to control it
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:41 PM   #97
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For those of you who are still unsure about the LSA going into the Z-28...
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:01 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
I'm willing to bet the engine will be the LSA but the horsepower will be less than 556 hp. I don't see GM giving the Camaro more power than the Cadillac CTS-V rating of 556. The LS3 is in the Corvette and Camaro SS but the Corvette has slightly more horsepower. The horsepower for the Z28 will probably be around 540-550.
So you think Chevy will release a Z28 that cannot beat the GT500.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:41 PM   #99
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So you think Chevy will release a Z28 that cannot beat the 2011 GT500.
Fixed that for you.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:10 PM   #100
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Fixed that for you.
I don't think they'll release a Z28 intent of competing against the GT500 that's maxed out.

Given that this is to be the pedestal-standing Camaro for a good solid 3 years, yet..."Let down" or "good enough" are not the kinds of phrases the engineers and designers have in their vocabulary.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:29 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
Between 580-600 horse, IMO.

I don't really believe GM is going with power between SS and CTS-V. I see many photos with the GT500 in prototype testing, therefore I'm thinking that is the target. Having said that, in order to be competitive now, I believe Z28 has to at least match the GT500 where it currently is. However, I believe the GT500 is going to get a bump by 2012, so I think GM will try to look ahead, bump it closer to ZR1, so it's not going to see a huge spread, if any, should it be a significant increase from the serpent. It has to make up for the weight, which I believe will fall in between SS coupe and convert', so I'm a little torn on how to propose it will get there.

Since I've read CTS-V's exhaust is quite conservative, and it being a luxury car, I believe their are restrictions that can be relaxed for Z28, resulting in a small bump from LSA level. It appears the intake and exhaust systems might be a little less restrictive when the V6 goes from CTS to CAMARO, so that's another little bit of support to me. In addition, the quad tips suggest dual-mode exhaust, like those featured on the Y-Bodies; another opportunity for a bit more power. It certainly sounded better in those videos at the 'Ring!

A new upper intake plenum suggests to me there's a little more development between LSA and LS9. Because the upper plenum doesn't appear to be as flat as LS9, maybe there is a little less restriction, so perhap we could see a 2300 running 1900 psi levels (10.5 to 9.0, respectively) and make the power I'm suggesting.

It'd be nice to see an upgrade to the short block, for the pistongs and rods. I don't think Ti rods are necessary, but it'd be nice to see the forged slugs from LS9 carry over, and maybe some forged H-beam rods from the GMPP catalog. I'd like to see LS9's cam come over, too, since it doesn't have to be conservative, like one would expect in a luxury vehicle, like CTS-V. It'd be nice to be able to grow, safely, to 600-650 RWHP, like the GT500 can (and more...), but I can't complain, too much, knowing that if GM releases a 600 horse' Z28, it can't be pushed to 700 horse' with a little pulley, CAI, and exhaust upgrading/tuning.

I'm just crossing my fingers the chassis tuning will match the power in terms of performance. I'm sure we're going to be adding weight, so I hope GM can find a way to control it
I too believe that the Z/28's engine will be a hybrid of sorts between LSA and the LS9 as we know them currently. Remember that GM said the LSA was engineered for refinement for Cadillac and not for all out power and yes GM did have other supercharged engines in development prior to bankruptcy. The plenum cover on the prototype Z/28's engine is not like any we've yet to see by GM to date even though it say's LSA on the plastic cover, I think it could be for our amusement only and to downplay what's coming. This intercooler design is not like any so far from GM and it looks to have a much larger and pronounced intercooler compared to the CTS-V's. Note that the coolant lines on the prototype's intercooler is located on the front of the engine also.

GM also said at the introduction of the LSA and the LS9 engines was that the first big main difference from the two engines was the supercharger's size, 1.9L for LSA and 2.3L for the LS9.

The second big difference was that the LSA had a more efficient single brick intercooler compared to the LS9's dual brick intercooler on lowering the forced air temp. This was done on the LS9 to keep the hood design low which the camaro does not have an issue with since its cowl height is not as low as the corvette's.

The third is of course the forged pistons in the LS9 compared to the hypereutectic pistons in the LSA which was used because they are quieter and are much more tolerant on emissions especially start-up compared to the forged ones of the LS9. The hypereutectics in the LSA are pretty durable and can withstand a lot of punishment while producing high hp levels.

Hypereutectic Aluminum Pistons with Oil-Spray Cooling
Superior piston design sets the tone all of the 6.2L LSA's internal components. The engineering objective? Lighter, stronger and smoother.

The pistons themselves are aluminum-cast from a high-silicon alloy developed for its combination of strength and heat-management properties. Casting reduces noise-generating potential, compared to other high-performance piston materials such as forged aluminum, and is specified when NVH control is a priority. The hypereutectic pistons are also lighter than conventional steel, which translates to less reciprocating mass inside the engine. Less mass means greater efficiency, high-rpm capability and a feeling of immediate response as the engine builds revs. The LS9s pistons are made of forged aluminum. The key difference in material choice here, is the desire for refinement in the Cadillac application.

The combustion surface of the LSA pistons, or the top land, lacks the valve-relief pockets typical on high-performance engines with relatively high-lift valves. Rather, the LSA top lands are sumped, with a saucer-shaped indent that dips gradually from the outer edge of the piston. This design promotes a thorough mixing of air and fuel, and along with other durability enhancing features, allows a 9.1:1 compression ratio: higher than a conventional supercharged or turbocharged engine, for improved combustion efficiency.

The durability enhancements include an anodized top land, which reduces wear and helps deflect heat generated during combustion away from the LSA's bottom end. To further reduce wear, the piston skirt is coated with a polymer material, which limits bore scuffing, or abrasion of the cylinder wall over time from the piston's up-down motion. The polymer coating also dampens noise generated by the piston's movement. The wrist pins, which attach the piston to the connecting rod, were developed for maximum durability, with a large outer diameter and a tapered inner diameter. These pins "float" inside the rod bushing and pin bores in the piston barrel. Compared to a conventional fixed pin assembly, in which the connecting rod is fixed to the piston's wrist pin while the pin rotates in the pin bore, the floating pins reduce stress on the pin. They allow tighter pin to pin-bore tolerances and reduce noise generated as the piston moves through the cylinder. The benefit is less engine wear, improved durability and quieter operation.

Valves are among the most heat-stressed parts in an engine, and their wear resistance is crucial to long-term durability. Those in the LSA are manufactured from a high-chromium steel alloy called SilChrome 1 (The only difference between the LSA's exhaust valves, and the LS9s is that the LS9's are filled with sodium for the extra heat protection -- the LS9s intake valves are made of titanium.), with thicker heads than most other Gen IV V-8s. They promote heat transfer away from the valve face and valve guide to the cooler end of the stem, where it more readily dissipates. This maintains a lower, more uniform valve temperature, reducing wear on the valve guide for better alignment and a consistent seal between the valve seat and valve face over the life of the engine.

Finally, the 6.2L LSA represents the first line of small block V-8s equipped with oil-spray piston cooling. Eight oil-squirting jets in the engine block drench the underside of each piston and the surrounding cylinder wall with an extra layer of cooling, friction-reducing oil. The oil spray reduces piston temperature, promoting extreme output and long-term durability. The extra layer of oil on the cylinder walls and wristpin also dampens noise emanating from the pistons.

I don't think the Z will get the titanium connecting rods or sodium filled valves from the LS9 but you never know.

Stock for stock the LSA is a more durable engine test wise compared to the LS9 as was stated by GM at the debut. Regarding quality and durability, the 6.2L Supercharged LSA has been validated beyond 100,000 miles and accumulated more the 6,400 hours of dynamometer testing. It has run over 270 consecutive hours at wide-open throttle without a failure. (The LS9 has only accomplished 100 hours of this sort of testing!!!) It's been road tested in the world's extreme climates and track-tested under racing g loads on some the world's most demanding circuits. It has completed actual and simulated 24-hour track tests.

And just because the LS9 is rated at 638 now does not mean that it would not be bumped up a little to provide the Z/28's engine a little breathing room for it's hp rating.
The prototype Z/28 pic below looks to have a much taller intercooler cover with well defined twin riser to maybe house a taller version of the LS9 intercooler twin bricks for better combustion inlet temps.

The stock LSA as installed in the CTS-V has a rev limiter @ 6200 rpm yet it was shown to make more power well past 6600 rpm and was still climbing from this post from another site: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...sa-engine.html I think the Z/28 engine will not have a rev limiter of 6200 rpm but of one much higher. It showed 451 hp @ 6200 and 485 hp @ 6600 with rev limiter raised or removed, thats a 34 hp difference. The gm performance parts crate LSA has a recommended 6600 rpm fuel cutoff.

Pics below are of the prototype Z/28 engine, then uncle Robin Lawrence's LSA stuffed camaro bottom left, and last but not least an LS9 stuffed camaro bottom right for comparison plus some side by side parts pics.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:43 AM   #102
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In my opinion, the Z28 will stick with the 556hp rating. GM doesn't have to fear the GT500, the 2012 MY has been finalized so no last minute upgrades will come from Ford. That being said, the '12 GT500 will have been released and sold out before the Z28 sees a dealership. If GM were to rate it higher and lets say Motor Trend compares the two to be dead even, it would make GM look bad. At 556hp, if it wins, it looks really good, if it ties, it looks good.. if it loses, the blame can go to weight and only having a 6hp advantage (torque is always overlooked).

Will the Z28 eat Corvette sales?.... What Corvette sales? and I hardly think that a buyer set on a Grand Sport is gonna pitch out extra cash for something he doesn't want... Z06/ZR1 people are Z06/ZR1 people.... they care nothing for Camaros...

I honestly believe that GM might be benchmarking the Z28 to the wrong Mustang, by the time the Z28 is available, the GT500 will be done, the 5.4 will be gone... and Shelby will be out again... Since the 2012 GT500 is being built right now, MY13s top model will be ready for Jan 2012 and since it looks like the Z28 will be out fall/winter 2011, with the GT500s gone for over 8 months and a new model in route in 4... victory might go the way of tooting their own horn.. if only for a brief time (see below)



Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperTomcat View Post
My guess is a twin-turbo 5.0.

If they do that..hello 650 HP.
Yeah, the 2013 SVT Cobra should sport the Twin Turbo 5.0, Turbo's are much better for extended uses such as road circuits. Superchargers get heat soaked after a few laps and horsepower decreases. Twin Turbos also complement the TiVCT way better so I can see SVT answering back with the "Road Runner" 5.0.

Here is a prototype TT 5.0 called EU-01, a collaboration between multiple companies.. They strap it to a dyno at 4:35, it made 552hp and 576tq.... at the wheels...

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